Build your perfect WTT player

[rpb23]

Xu Xin backhand

He's a irrational fan.
Notice, as a penhold player, Xu's forehand is probably 10 times better than his backhand. Yet, no pros rate his forehand as the best. There is reason for that. Xu's forehand is very spiny and consistent but lack of speed and pace simply because his forehand oriented scheme wouldn't let him setup forehand in a good position and he is not very fast and often has to back off for time which reduces the effectiveness of his forehand. Pros can handle Xu's forehand better than ML's.

 

[rpb23]

Saw the short video of 4 pros's take on building up the perfect WTT player. As the professionals they have to face each other many times, they have the ultimate knowledge on this topic.

Not surprisingly, all of them rate ML as the best forehand. None of them would point Aruna's forehand as the best.
As for the best backhand, two of them rated LSD which show he has already raised eyebrows at such young age.

 

[TableTennisDaily]

Tomokazu Harimoto up next:

 

[NetProphet]

On the contrary, I think ML's forehand is underrated.

First time.e I've heard that tbh!

With a useful but unimpressive backhand, he has to have a great forehand to achieve the goat status.

Well, the status you attribute to him is purely subjective, as is the strength of his FH.
Is it really better than FZDs, WCQs, Wang Liquin, XX, even Chen Qi springs to mind.
To say he won all the things that make him the greatest ever (in your mind) purely because of his FH is underselling the rest of his game BIG TIME. His FH is great obviously but I still maintain that ppl jump on the band wagon to say that because it's easy, it's a catchphrase, and it requires little to no thought.
So I believe from what I've seen that, because there are (imo) so many FHs that match his, that it's everything else added to it that sets him apart, although the GOAT debate is just that to me, a debate and not an undisputed fact.

ML battled many years against two of his teammates with monster backhand in ZJK and FZD, he has significantly better H2H advantage against both them. The key part for his winning? Using his forehand against their backhand.

Fair enough if that's what you think, all his FH, but that's far too simplistic imo and I don't agree.
Just one of the reasons is that Ma Long and FZDs peaks didn't coincide.
Ma Long has the advantage when FZD was younger and FZD has the advantage when Ma Long got older. There is a small overlap in peak time, maybe.... But Ma Longs experience by then is hard to discount. That's experience, not his FH.

How many times we saw ML would pivot from backhand to forehand in a backhand to backhand exchange and winning the point?

Yes, players do that... All the best players can set that up. Ma Long hasca great FH but if it was not accompanied by an encyclopedic knowledge of his opponents and match tactics etc he wouldn't have won half! He has always been a student of the game.

It's still true in most cases nowadays that a good forehand still can power through or outlast a great backhand in a rally.

That's always been the case. Nobody is disputing that and this being true doesn't make your case.

Bottom line for me, Ma Long has a great FH but his ability to use it in winning is supplemented by a lot lot more.
Anyway, such is the debate eh.
All subjective, good fun to talk about!

 

[rpb23]

First time.e I've heard that tbh!

Well, underrated not by pros and I, but by some fans and you obviously is one of them.

Well, the status you attribute to him is purely subjective, as is the strength of his FH.
Is it really better than FZDs, WCQs, Wang Liquin, XX, even Chen Qi springs to mind.
To say he won all the things that make him the greatest ever (in your mind) purely because of his FH is underselling the rest of his game BIG TIME. His FH is great obviously but I still maintain that ppl jump on the band wagon to say that because it's easy, it's a catchphrase, and it requires little to no thought.
So I believe from what I've seen that, because there are (imo) so many FHs that match his, that it's everything else added to it that sets him apart, although the GOAT debate is just that to me, a debate and not an undisputed fact.

Fair enough if that's what you think, all his FH, but that's far too simplistic imo and I don't agree.
Just one of the reasons is that Ma Long and FZDs peaks didn't coincide.
Ma Long has the advantage when FZD was younger and FZD has the advantage when Ma Long got older. There is a small overlap in peak time, maybe.... But Ma Longs experience by then is hard to discount. That's experience, not his FH.

Yes, players do that... All the best players can set that up. Ma Long hasca great FH but if it was not accompanied by an encyclopedic knowledge of his opponents and match tactics etc he wouldn't have won half! He has always been a student of the game.


That's always been the case. Nobody is disputing that and this being true doesn't make your case.

Bottom line for me, Ma Long has a great FH but his ability to use it in winning is supplemented by a lot lot more.
Anyway, such is the debate eh.
All subjective, good fun to talk about!

No intention to get into an argument. I just want to point out one simple truth: so far all 4 very respectable pros who are in the top 10 are rated ML as the best forehand without hesitation. Given their credentials, the professional knowledge and years of direct competitions with ML and others including some big forehand players you mentioned, it's much easier to convince me (actually, I don't need them to convince me as I reached the conclusion years ago). Of course, unless you can convince me, as a fan you somehow possess the knowledge, deep insight and experience far beyond these pros.
I commented in the past, in terms of forehand power, ML is not at the top. Actually, I said, FZD can overpower ML in both forehand and backhand. However, I still rate ML's forehand as the OVERALL best.
With that said, you are definitely entitled to hold your view that ML's forehand is overrated even by the majority of pros.
Peace...

 

[rpb23]

Talking about how to measure forehand effectiveness, I 'll use an example in my own club.
There is a young player who has a forehand loop with lots of power. In the forehand to forehand loop rally away from the table, he often overpowers me.
However, in the many matches we played (I won 80% of the time), I usually scored with my forehand 50% of times. Him? one or two forehand points each game in average.
The reason?
I initiate forehand a lot more
my forehand may not be powerful but more consistent with good placement forcing him to scramble
His forehand needs more time to setup and less consistent.

A few times he can score a point with me in the forehand exchange, but that rarely happens during a whole match.

His forehand is more powerful but really better than my forehand?

 

[NetProphet]

Well, underrated not by pros and I, but by some fans and you obviously is one of them.

You literally wrote in your previous post that you think MLs FH is underrated. You wrote "On the contrary, I think ML's forehand is underrated".
I don't think I'm underestimating, I just think ppl attribute too much to it and not enough to the other aspects of his game.
Has Ma Longs FH has been better than FZD and WCQ for the past 5 years? Give it a rest eh. It's very good and so are a lot of others.

No intention to get into an argument.

before beginning with entirely sarcastic post 😂

I just want to point out one simple truth: so far all 4 very respectable pros who are in the top 10 are rated ML as the best forehand without hesitation.

So? That means nobody can apply their own thoughts to it? And if you ask all of top 100 and 25 don't pick Ma Long you will go with the herd and say crowd is always right?
There is no right. It's like best guitarist. There's no best, just favourite.
And FZDs FH stacks up to ML every day of the week. Does that make me a fool?

Given their credentials, the professional knowledge and years of direct competitions with ML and others including some big forehand players you mentioned, it's much easier to convince me (actually, I don't need them to convince me as I reached the conclusion years ago).

This is your issue. I'm not trying to convince you. I can't prove you're wrong. The worst I could do is ram my opinion at you but I don't want to do that. You're entitled to you opinion just as I am but your belief doesn't make other ideas ridiculous. But you can't seem to swallow that and are dragging it to the argument you say you don't want by making it a right or wrong scenario. 🤷‍♂️

Of course, unless you can convince me, as a fan you somehow possess the knowledge, deep insight and experience far beyond these pros.

Again, sarcastic. I'm not entitled to my thoughts because they don't agree with you and 4 random players from the last WTT event? I believe MLs game brain is underestimated. Id urge you to watch how he beat LGY from 0-3 at the World Cup last yr. Just to consider my point a little.

I commented in the past, in terms of forehand power, ML is not at the top. Actually, I said, FZD can overpower ML in both forehand and backhand. However, I still rate ML's forehand as the OVERALL best.
With that said, you are definitely entitled to hold your view that ML's forehand is overrated even by the majority of pros.

I said overrated because you wrote a post saying it's responsible for all his success and I reckon your overrating the FH and underestimating other very important things that set him apart.
But you ignored all that to sarcastically ridicule me.

Peace...

Sure 👍
Anywayz this whole thing is supposed to be a bit of fun so let's keep it that way.
ML has an awesome FH 😁

 

[ThePongCommenter]

No intention to get into an argument. I just want to point out one simple truth: so far all 4 very respectable pros who are in the top 10 are rated ML as the best forehand without hesitation. Given their credentials, the professional knowledge and years of direct competitions with ML and others including some big forehand players you mentioned, it's much easier to convince me (actually, I don't need them to convince me as I reached the conclusion years ago). Of course, unless you can convince me, as a fan you somehow possess the knowledge, deep insight and experience far beyond these pros.

You don't know that they answered without hesitation or how closely behind they might rate other players. While I agree with you that Ma Long has the best overall forehand because of its versatility and completeness (and not because of its power), there are other valid opinions. When Dan asked Lin Yun Ju to participate in this challenge, he answered Aruna as the best forehand and the best power. So make sure you include that in the simple truth...

 

[ThePongCommenter]

ML battled many years against two of his teammates with monster backhand in ZJK and FZD, he has significantly better H2H advantage against both them. The key part for his winning? Using his forehand against their backhand. How many times we saw ML would pivot from backhand to forehand in a backhand to backhand exchange and winning the point? It's still true in most cases nowadays that a good forehand still can power through or outlast a great backhand in a rally.

Ma Long's lifetime record against FZD is tipped in his favor because they were at their primes in different generations and not simply because of a forehand or backhand thing.

ML thoroughly dominated FZD in the early part of FZDs career before he hit his prime and while ML was still in his prime, once the scales tipped on that post 2018 or so, the results started going FZDs way as well.

 

[joshmak10]

If we’re doing Non-CNT

FH: Quadri Aruna
BH: Darko Jorgic
Serve: Maharu Yoshimura
Mentality: Dang Qiu
Feeling: Truls Moregard
Power: Hugo Calderano
Personality: Alexis Lebrun
Celebration: Tomokazu Harimoto

The other one I would start is females only

FH: Sun Yingsha
BH: Satsuki Odo
Serve: Mima Ito
Mentality: Wang Manyu
Feeling: Han Ying (not a lot of great options tbh)
Power: Wang Yidi
Personality: Miwa Harimoto
Celebration: Bernadette Szocs

 

[Federal_Agent]

Forehand: Ma Long
Backhand: Kreanga / Wang Hao (RPB)
Saques: Ma Lin
Mentalidade: FZD
Sentimento: Werner Schlager
Personalidade: Timo Boll
Poder: Kreanga
Celebração: Wang Hao

 

[PenHoldSandro]

Xu Xin backhand

Shocking, I know! I'd never put penholders top in the backhand category xD

 

[Crepche]

I’m Chinese so my setup is mainly Chinese.
Forehand: Ma long
Backhand: Fan Zhen Dong
Serves: Ma lin
Mentality: Zhang Jike
Feeling: Xu Xin
Personality: also Xu Xin
Power: Wang Chuqin or Wang Liqin or Sun Yingsha
Celebration: Tomokazu Harimoto
BTW I put Harimoto because the way he shouts after he wins a point.

 

[PenHoldSandro]

BTW I put Harimoto because the way he shouts after he wins a point.

Exactly why I put him too xD

 

[ThePongCommenter]

Shocking, I know! I'd never put penholders top in the backhand category xD

There are some penholders who have all time great backhands such as Wang Hao and Felix is on his way maybe as well. But Xu Xin isn't one of them lol.

 

[PenHoldSandro]

There are some penholders who have all time great backhands such as Wang Hao and Felix is on his way maybe as well. But Xu Xin isn't one of them lol.

yeah, ofc they're great, but against everyone? Their backhands can't really compete with monsters like FZD or ML...

 

[olive-nguyen]

As Long as they played WTT events, they are counted. The task is 'build your perfect WTT player'.

Alright

 

[Robin0910]

Well then, I’ll share my list too

Overall:
FH: Ma Long
BH: Lin Shidong
Serves: Wang Chuqin
Mentality: Ma Long
Feeling: Truls
Personality: Franziska
Power: Fan Zhendong
Celebration: Aruna

non-CNT
FH: Yukiya Uda
BH: Lin Yun Ju
Serves: Anders Lind
Mentality: Timo Boll
Power: Calderano

 

[NextLevel]

Shocking, I know! I'd never put penholders top in the backhand category xD

You would never put Wang Hao or Felix Lebrun or Dang Qiu or Wong Chun Ting, who all have great backhands? Xu Xin is relatively bad IMHO, there are many good RPB backhands out there.

 

[NextLevel]

On the contrary, I think ML's forehand is underrated. With a useful but unimpressive backhand, he has to have a great forehand to achieve the goat status. His forehand is not the most powerful (maybe not even in the top 5) but with top notch consistency, timing, pace and change, trajectory, placement, counter-loop/drive, and more importantly, the extremely high usage.
ML battled many years against two of his teammates with monster backhand in ZJK and FZD, he has significantly better H2H advantage against both them. The key part for his winning? Using his forehand against their backhand. How many times we saw ML would pivot from backhand to forehand in a backhand to backhand exchange and winning the point? It's still true in most cases nowadays that a good forehand still can power through or outlast a great backhand in a rally.

His (Ma Long) backhand was always one of the best in the world, even when it was a relative weakness before the plastic ball change. His forehand as far as I know was never underrated.