Can rubbers achieve even more catapult than currently?

[TensorBackhand]

Do you think ESN or Butterfly or Daiki rubbers can achieve even higher amounts of catapult in the future? or are they already at their physical limits?

I keep seeing new rubbers come out that don't see very different. G1, MXP, Tenergy are all over a decade old, and yet the new rubbers that come out don't really seem to move the needle much. Is V22 faster? maybe barely faster. But it doesn't really feel like 10 years worth of research and development.

Will rubbers achieve any new breakthrough in the future? or are we witnessing the actual physical limit

 

[dingyibvs]

Do you think ESN or Butterfly or Daiki rubbers can achieve even higher amounts of catapult in the future? or are they already at their physical limits?

I keep seeing new rubbers come out that don't see very different. G1, MXP, Tenergy are all over a decade old, and yet the new rubbers that come out don't really seem to move the needle much. Is V22 faster? maybe barely faster. But it doesn't really feel like 10 years worth of research and development.

Will rubbers achieve any new breakthrough in the future? or are we witnessing the actual physical limit

If you loop hard, then no. The Tiefenbach study showed that all rackets approach the same limit when hit hard enough.

 

[DOMZ56]

Do you think ESN or Butterfly or Daiki rubbers can achieve even higher amounts of catapult in the future? or are they already at their physical limits?

I keep seeing new rubbers come out that don't see very different. G1, MXP, Tenergy are all over a decade old, and yet the new rubbers that come out don't really seem to move the needle much. Is V22 faster? maybe barely faster. But it doesn't really feel like 10 years worth of research and development.

Will rubbers achieve any new breakthrough in the future? or are we witnessing the actual physical limit

Imo, they could have rubbers with more catapult, and probably deep in these factories r and d labs there are rubbers with a higher catapult effect, but beyond a point without any added control there is no use for a rubber that is ridiculously quick, especially as most play with Carbon blades aswell. So we don't need faster rubbers, because one we aren't good enough and it would probably do more harm then good due to the lack of control, plus most manufacturers are moving to hybrid rubbers and the counterspin game. Super catapulty rubbers are no longer necessary...

 

[DOMZ56]

If you loop hard, then no. The Tiefenbach study showed that all rackets approach the same limit when hit hard enough.

Yes, but if you take a normal, even stroke then that doesnt work. On an exact same stroke, a slow 3 ply allwood blade with hurricane 3 is going to be much slower than a primorac carbon and the omega 7 hypers and mxp 50s of the world. So I think the point of the thread would be to ask if on a same stroke can we have faster or more catapulty rubbers

 

[lodro]

Do you think ESN or Butterfly or Daiki rubbers can achieve even higher amounts of catapult in the future?

May I answer this with a "counter question" please ?

"Do you personally believe that it would be desirable to have even more catapult power ???""

 

[DOMZ56]

May I answer this with a "counter question" please ?

"Do you personally believe that it would be desirable to have even more catapult power ???""

Exactly my point, i think its unnecessary, most of us aren't good enough for current rubbers

 

[Doum]

I'm more interested in a rubber that would keep it's catapult over its entire life.

 

[DOMZ56]

I'm more interested in a rubber that would keep it's catapult over its entire life.

I think tenergy 05 does that pretty well, just not a huge fan of it myself

 

[lodro]

but beyond a point without any added control there is no use for a rubber that is ridiculously quick,

I second that. I played for the first time with a Rozena last night at the club and in comparison to my usual Chinese bricks of rubbers the BTY rubbers is all over the place.
I admit that if I would give it more time I would be able to play more accurate with these marshmallow- sponges as well but why bother. I just took them off the blade now. 😁

 

[TensorBackhand]

If you loop hard, then no. The Tiefenbach study showed that all rackets approach the same limit when hit hard enough.

Yes I notice this as well. Thats why I don't really find much difference between Big Dipper and D09c. As long as you hit even moderately hard, they seem to top out at the same speed.

 

[dingyibvs]

Yes I notice this as well. Thats why I don't really find much difference between Big Dipper and D09c. As long as you hit even moderately hard, they seem to top out at the same speed.

Yeah, all the lines converge pretty closely by 25 m/s, while pros often generate shots several times that. We're not pros of course but all of us can loop harder than that even with just a moderately hard loop.

In other words, I think further improvements may be too small to make a significant difference at most levels so long as you can loop moderately hard with most strokes.

 

[blahness]

Tangential catapult is where it's at, this is the stuff that generates a lot of spin

 

[kase]

The question has some interesting consequences.

You can see by recent results that even a CNT team member, who trains 6h/day for the last 20 years, cannot generate enough pace, even with custom highly boosted rubbers to simply out-power his rival at the world cup. ML kept his strokes small and controlled the ball, using incoming power, until the time was right to use his own power. Then LGY couldn't recover from his long strokes quick enough when the power was returned, especially when it was placed accurately. Meanwhile the less accurate placements of LGY made it easier for ML to get the ball back. It seems that in an effort to generate more power, the accuracy and consistency was decreased.

So you could see it like this: The power generated with a great, efficient kinetic chain and long stroke isn't enough to justify the recovery time from such a long stroke (assuming that a rival moves well enough).

So if this is the limit for rubber speed, you could think that the future entails smaller strokes with shorter recovery time. But then to make up for the lower power from the smaller stroke, you would need to stand closer to the table and take the ball earlier off the bounce. Plus you would need to be highly accurate and hit small targets instead of just pounding the ball somewhere in one half of the table. You can clearly see the progression from 70s windmilling, to Waldner's 'short' stroke, to modern day even shorter strokes. Plus players are staying closer to the table for longer than ever before.

 

[igorponger]

You need dynamical tests with special apparatus. The commonly used dropping ball test is of little avail.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

amateurs talk about speed
semi pros talk about control and spin
pros talk about spin and speed

I wonder why do we even measure a speed on rubbers, if we are not first measuring the skills of the user of these rubbers?
speed is nothing, if one can't control or spin the ball.

Big Dipper and D09C can't even be in the same sentence.
if your level is only that much, it might seem the same
the moment skills and level increase, D09C is much more higher in performance on the control, spin and speed ratio than Big Dipper

Rubbers needs to be groups in control, spin and speed and not speed alone.

To think the decade old G1, MXP, Tenergy (05) is the same speed (and control/spin) as the more recent is obviously wrong as the newer gen are indeed much higher in all 3

 

[Gozo Aruna]

The wizards and their apprentice at the ESN workshop will add more magic dust to enhance the catapultiness when the ball radius becomes greater.

 

[ben1229]

If just rubbers , doesn't mean anything, TT is blade rubber and player . Just find the right rubber that suits your play.

 

[longle]

you want faster rubber ? this is probably what you need

 

[kase]

When ITTF legalises non-wood blades, you can use a 15mm pure carbon pickleball bat.

 

[JJ Ng]

I second that. I played for the first time with a Rozena last night at the club and in comparison to my usual Chinese bricks of rubbers the BTY rubbers is all over the place.
I admit that if I would give it more time I would be able to play more accurate with these marshmallow- sponges as well but why bother. I just took them off the blade now. 😁

Please send that sheet of Rozena my way. I love love springy rubber on my backhand side!