Coaching

[Dan]

Hi guys,

As an aspiring coach myself, I would like to ask, how many coaches do we have on board here on TableTennisDaily? What coaching qualifications do you have? What do you think it would take to become a professional coach like Richard Prause?

Are coaching qualifications even worth it? I am a level 2 ETTA UKCC coach and have a first class honours degree in Sports Coaching and Performance. I am thinking about doing the ITTF coaching qualifications. Does anyone have any experiences with these. I hear the coaching structure in Germany is brilliant! So I may look into that to.

Liu Guoliang with the winning team at the London 2012 Olympics (CHINA) Photo: Zimbo

 

[Belisar]

Sadly I did not find the ETTA coaching badges added much to my knowledge or ability. I think the revised UKCC ones are harder, although I have no personal experience of them. I currently do some voluntary coaching in schools, clubs and at county level in England.

Cannot speak for the ITTF ones so I am interested to hear from anyone who has done any of them.

I would far rather see and speak to top quality players and coaches and find out from them what they do and how they do it and what they think works.

I am currently a little interested in warm ups. My English experience is we tend to use football based warm ups which do little for our table tennis and do not stimulate the mind at all. My limited psychology experience tells me if we can run a warm up that stimulates the mind as much as the body then those we coach have more chance of retaining information and thus progressing. Psychology I suppose may also help the cornering side as well.

Not got any real knowledge of Germany but the German coaches I have spoken to recently speak of the political side of things (sounds like England then) and one I saw who was apparently highly qualified and quite senior was a shocking advert for German coaching. Could be I have only seen the wrong end of things.

Open question to all how much do badges (national or ITTF) make a difference to roles or respect?

 

[Matt Hetherington]

I did the ITTF level 1 coaching cert in 2011, it's probably the easiest to work with across different countries if you are coaching internationally as it is I suppose a 'global standard'. The level 1 course is quite basic but also includes a segment on coaching para players which is really great. As part of the level 1 course you have to complete 25 hours of group coaching with a 5 hour assessment. I coached a junior training camp for the upper northern region of the country for my assessment which was a great experience. My level 1 cert helped my appointment as the National Hopes coach in Austria and the USA so was pretty handy to have.

I'm doing the ITTF Level 2 coaching course in November which apparently requires 50 hours of coaching to be signed off and is a 6 day long course. Not quite sure what to expect with it but it appears to be a lot more advanced than the level 1 which is quite basic. The score you get on your level 2 assessment determines how much further you can go. For example I think 10-14/20 is a pass but you are not able to advance. A score of 15 or higher allows you to proceed to do the ITTF level 3 course and there is also the ITTF High Performance Coaching course which is the highest qualification available.

Hope that info helps you make up your mind. My ITTF level 1 cert also backed me for my next trip back to New Jersey where I'll be coaching at the ITTF Hotspot Center for 3 months

 

[Ben Larcombe]

I'm a UKCC Level 2 coach and I did the course about 18months ago I think. I have to admit I wasn't expecting much from it, it was more like I felt obliged to do it. However, the tutors were great and there were a few other decent coaches on the course so I had a pretty alright time in the end.

I think the problem with the current courses in the UK is that it seems that nobody ever fails! If everyone always passes then no wonder the course doesn't really mean anything. I mean I'm pretty sure my mother (who knows pretty much nothing about table tennis or sport in general) could turn up to the course, complete her workbook, plan a basic session using the materials provided and deliver it to her fellow coaches well enough that she would pass. This is clearly a problem if having a UKCC level 2 is meant to mean you know what you're doing. At present all having a UKCC Level 2 means is that you are CRB checked and compotent enough to understand and present basic ideas regarding a table tennis stroke. And I guess this is fine. We want more coaches after all. But seeing that the Level 3 course is so long and expensive and you don't seem to be able to get onto it even unless you are friends with the right people, it means that most coaches (from complete beginner coaches to excellent experienced coaches) are UKCC Level 2.

Personally, I learn the most from my own personal study. Pretty much every day I spend an hour or so reading, watching or listening to some kind of table tennis or coaching or sport science stuff that is helping me to improve as a table tennis coach. Does this go completely unnoticed? Of course it does! But then again I'm not doing it for recognition or an extra badge. I'm doing it to become a better coach, which I feel I am becoming every day.

In conclusion, my recommendation to you is to do whatever qualification you need to do to keep people happy. Do the CRB/first aid whatever. It's easier just to do it and save yourself the grief. But then, spend your own time learning. Never stop learning. Your coaching will improve so much more this way. Sooner or later, if you've invested the time, your results will speak for themselves.

As for becoming a top professional coach? I reckon your best bet is to get a job as an assistant coach under an awesome head coach. That's what I'd do anyway. Class it as your apprenticeship.

 

[Dan]

I'm a UKCC Level 2 coach and I did the course about 18months ago I think. I have to admit I wasn't expecting much from it, it was more like I felt obliged to do it. However, the tutors were great and there were a few other decent coaches on the course so I had a pretty alright time in the end.

I think the problem with the current courses in the UK is that it seems that nobody ever fails! If everyone always passes then no wonder the course doesn't really mean anything. I mean I'm pretty sure my mother (who knows pretty much nothing about table tennis or sport in general) could turn up to the course, complete her workbook, plan a basic session using the materials provided and deliver it to her fellow coaches well enough that she would pass. This is clearly a problem if having a UKCC level 2 is meant to mean you know what you're doing. At present all having a UKCC Level 2 means is that you are CRB checked and compotent enough to understand and present basic ideas regarding a table tennis stroke. And I guess this is fine. We want more coaches after all. But seeing that the Level 3 course is so long and expensive and you don't seem to be able to get onto it even unless you are friends with the right people, it means that most coaches (from complete beginner coaches to excellent experienced coaches) are UKCC Level 2.

Personally, I learn the most from my own personal study. Pretty much every day I spend an hour or so reading, watching or listening to some kind of table tennis or coaching or sport science stuff that is helping me to improve as a table tennis coach. Does this go completely unnoticed? Of course it does! But then again I'm not doing it for recognition or an extra badge. I'm doing it to become a better coach, which I feel I am becoming every day.

In conclusion, my recommendation to you is to do whatever qualification you need to do to keep people happy. Do the CRB/first aid whatever. It's easier just to do it and save yourself the grief. But then, spend your own time learning. Never stop learning. Your coaching will improve so much more this way. Sooner or later, if you've invested the time, your results will speak for themselves.

As for becoming a top professional coach? I reckon your best bet is to get a job as an assistant coach under an awesome head coach. That's what I'd do anyway. Class it as your apprenticeship.

Wow what a post! I agree 100% in what your saying here Ben! And I am just so surprised at these coaching courses how there is sooo much emphasis on technique. Sport is not just about technique, so much more comes into it.

And yes, I think a lot of coaching is self learning, and assisting coaches as often as possible. Richard Prause said to me to try and travel a little and see what coaches do. Learn a bit from the French, Japanese, Chinese, Swedish and then you create your own philosophy of the game. Take little bits here and there all the time.

I try to do the same also each day by taking 1 or 2 hours learning something new. I'm currently reading the book 'The Sports Gene' you'll love it!

Thanks for the post again mate!

 

[Belisar]

there is sooo much emphasis on technique. Sport is not just about technique,

Seems to me that English coaching badges are very much about technique and that actually feeds into the way we coach. Anyone with a variation is coached out of it so we end up with lots of players who do things the same. If we only look at doing things the same how is the game ever going to move on? To move forwards we need someone to do something different.

How about anyone outside of the UK who has a coaching badge, is it all technique based? Do you coach everyone the same way and to do the same thing?

 

[Dan]

How about anyone outside of the UK who has a coaching badge, is it all technique based? Do you coach everyone the same way and to do the same thing?

Second that, coaches across the world please get back to us

 

[Matt Hetherington]

Seems to me that English coaching badges are very much about technique and that actually feeds into the way we coach. Anyone with a variation is coached out of it so we end up with lots of players who do things the same. If we only look at doing things the same how is the game ever going to move on? To move forwards we need someone to do something different.

How about anyone outside of the UK who has a coaching badge, is it all technique based? Do you coach everyone the same way and to do the same thing?

A lot of the coaching course stuff for ITTF level 1 is technical based but it's so basic and about organising and planning sessions etc. As a coach who likes to invest more time in a small number of students I prefer to take more of a mentoring role and just try and share as much knowledge as I can, it's quite evident if you read my posts on Table Tennis Master that I never write about technique because there is so much more to the game in terms of analysis, tactics and mental game which are often overlooked.

 

[mg150023]

coaching ability . What is required of a person with the ability to coach

Well its the same old question what ability and or qualifications do you have to coach, being going on for years.A lot of people have and would make great coaches with no idea at all about the sport.But they have the ability to extract that little extra that is required to help students and players to achieve a higher standard of themselves
I play a lot of table tennis and i see no different in coaching Archery as i do table tennis its the ability to understand the person you are coaching and the opposition player being played.The same as Archery.
My life 30 years in the sport of Archery. Australian, National and State represenitive but to coach you have to do the set courses before you were aloud and we wrote the Manual for the coaches.Strange way things work
Yours James Rose Australian Archery Rep

 

[Olio]

I'm also a UKCC level 2, and find, like you Dan, that it's too easily given. Some coaches, old or new, have either insufficient background and interest, or have "lost the flame".

Some let kids play with horrible grips, and many are not able to adapt and find reasonable practice for developing players.

But it's probably the best of 2 evils, as a lvl 2 is required for a club, so better have clubs with not so good coaches, bringing new players and allowing the practice of the sport, than not having anything at all.

I am interested in getting "my" kids to be the best they can, without me being the limiting factor, so I too spend quite some time on youtube / websites, and talking to other coaches and former (mostly) very good players, to get more insight into top level coaching / training. On that note, the interviews on this website are fantastic tools.
Fitness, warm up, tactics, the mental game, preparation, adaptation are barely mentioned at level 1 or 2. And clearly all forgotten once you get back the the club.

 

[Dan]

I'm also a UKCC level 2, and find, like you Dan, that it's too easily given. Some coaches, old or new, have either insufficient background and interest, or have "lost the flame".

Some let kids play with horrible grips, and many are not able to adapt and find reasonable practice for developing players.

But it's probably the best of 2 evils, as a lvl 2 is required for a club, so better have clubs with not so good coaches, bringing new players and allowing the practice of the sport, than not having anything at all.

I am interested in getting "my" kids to be the best they can, without me being the limiting factor, so I too spend quite some time on youtube / websites, and talking to other coaches and former (mostly) very good players, to get more insight into top level coaching / training. On that note, the interviews on this website are fantastic tools.
Fitness, warm up, tactics, the mental game, preparation, adaptation are barely mentioned at level 1 or 2. And clearly all forgotten once you get back the the club.

Hi Olio, thanks for the response. I totally agree, getting kids to participate is the number importance because without numbers it's hard to even run a session. And great to hear the interviews have helped! When I interview the players/coaches I try to ask questions which will help coaches to. It is very interesting what developmental pathways a player/coach went through. My aim is to interview a lot more table tennis coaches to get some more answers and knowledge for us

Perhaps there could be two types of courses? Level 2 to get by, and a professional coaching course level 2. I'm not to sure tho haha costs etc. I am looking into Germany, my friend has told me the coaching system is amazing. His personal coach has failed the level 3 qualification twice due to his fitness! Crazy huh!

But in Germany they can afford to fail coaches due to the demand and popularity as you mentioned before.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I think it depends what paperwork you need, for what you want to do.
ETTA for UK, and ITTF for international.
ITTF level 1 is pretty easy to get (as I heard), so I think it should be pretty easy for you to get it.

But I agree, being a good coach is not about paperworks, it is about everything else.

I have been coaching in South Africa for 18 months now, and want to get ITTF level 1, to make my CV look more pretty . Just waiting for the local authorities to reschedule, as one for June did not happen.

 

[Dan]

I think it depends what paperwork you need, for what you want to do.
ETTA for UK, and ITTF for international.
ITTF level 1 is pretty easy to get (as I heard), so I think it should be pretty easy for you to get it.

But I agree, being a good coach is not about paperworks, it is about everything else.

I have been coaching in South Africa for 18 months now, and want to get ITTF level 1, to make my CV look more pretty . Just waiting for the local authorities to reschedule, as one for June did not happen.

Hey Tony, Welcome to the site. I agree also. I wouldn't mind the ITTF Level 1 to, sounds good Let me know when you get it and how it went. Good luck! buddy.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Hey Tony, Welcome to the site. I agree also. I wouldn't mind the ITTF Level 1 to, sounds good Let me know when you get it and how it went. Good luck! buddy.

Thanks Dan

 

[sasham]

Thank you so much for your help PingPongPom

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Hey Tony, Welcome to the site. I agree also. I wouldn't mind the ITTF Level 1 to, sounds good Let me know when you get it and how it went. Good luck! buddy.

Hey Dan

Totally forgetten about this thread, my apologies.

So I finally did the ITTF level 1 course. The 24 hours course was pretty boring, as most of the course was designed for people that don't know table tennis at all, but in another way of saying it, it covered a lot of basics.
ITTF Level 1 is a good foundation, but not enough to make one a good coach, but the reason for me to get it is because of paperwork.
It is more designed for teaching table tennis to beginners - schools etc. But i'm sure once the players improves, then this is not enough.

I also did the 25 hours practical within 2 weeks, but now i'm waiting for the local organisation to organise the 5 hours assessment - which could take months to happen (only few people can supervise this in South Africa, and how things are done here - delays/procrastination, its going to be a long wait for me). My guess is the earliest for this to happen is April 2014 (the start of the new season).

Again, I feel this is useful to have, but not to improve your coaching ability.

 

[Matt Hetherington]

For what it's worth the coaching certificates open up doors and opportunities. I just became the first ITTF Level 2 Coach in Oceania which gives me a very strong standing among coaches, open's up possibilities for national coaching positions, training camps etc and of course I am here at the ITTF Hotspot on the East Coast of the USA at the moment

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

For what it's worth the coaching certificates open up doors and opportunities. I just became the first ITTF Level 2 Coach in Oceania which gives me a very strong standing among coaches, open's up possibilities for national coaching positions, training camps etc and of course I am here at the ITTF Hotspot on the East Coast of the USA at the moment

Fully agree.
Now i'm going to hunt you down and beg you to give me my 5 hours supervised coaching lol.

Okay, back to the subject.
I agree with Matt regarding opening up doors and oppurtunities for better coaching roles in your club, province or national team. (I've seen coaches that aren't the best, but given these type of roles in a few places, guess you can call it a powerful political tool)

Even though many countries don't use ITTF certification, but it exetremely easy to get it/past it (if you are indeed a coach) and very useful to have.
Maybe the most difficult one is to get to one of the Level 1 courses in your area.
IE in South Africa, besided the one held recently, the previous one was in 2010 or 2009.
I have no idea how I can get a ITTF level 2 certificate, I assume I will need to fly to some other country for this to happen, unless a Level 2 course conductor comes and visit South Africa (MATT, when you visiting )

 

[Dan]

Hey Dan

Totally forgetten about this thread, my apologies.

So I finally did the ITTF level 1 course. The 24 hours course was pretty boring, as most of the course was designed for people that don't know table tennis at all, but in another way of saying it, it covered a lot of basics.
ITTF Level 1 is a good foundation, but not enough to make one a good coach, but the reason for me to get it is because of paperwork.
It is more designed for teaching table tennis to beginners - schools etc. But i'm sure once the players improves, then this is not enough.

I also did the 25 hours practical within 2 weeks, but now i'm waiting for the local organisation to organise the 5 hours assessment - which could take months to happen (only few people can supervise this in South Africa, and how things are done here - delays/procrastination, its going to be a long wait for me). My guess is the earliest for this to happen is April 2014 (the start of the new season).

Again, I feel this is useful to have, but not to improve your coaching ability.

Hey Tony, I am surprised you managed to find this topic Well remembered haha!

Thanks for the update. Yeah I understand, I can imagine the level 1 to be very basic as new coaches need to learn this and putting it in the level 1 courses makes sense. I agree with @PingPongPom also in regards to accreditation. It can definitely help your CV and your op from others as so much stuff in society is now based on qualifications. But I am glad you enjoyed it and good luck with your practical when you get to eventually do it

Thanks for the feedback again mate