CORKSCREW --the best rewarding type of spin.

[Metaxa]

I still don't understand why we should be trying to reduce a three-dimensional concept to two dimensions only.
There are already 3/4 people on the thread, plus an AI, with decent enough explanations of the three-dimensionality of this phenomenon we are talking about, there really is no media "reinventing the wheel" and it is not about camouflaging nor having multiple spins at the same time. It's just that the ball is a 3D object and its spin and movement can be divided into three spatial components CONCEPTUALLY.

Ignoring Igor's original point, the thread just evolved by attempting to clarify a concept that was lexically foreign to a person (who on the other hand is obviously well versed with the practice of said concept), which unfortunately only seems to have introduced more semantical incomprehensions.

And no, side-topspin or side-backspin are not corkscrew spin. No matter what Igor, or anyone else, erroneously says.

Okay, show me a corkscrew spin.

 

[Infernal]

On a round object, you only have 2 basic axes that are (playable) in all technical ball sports, a horizontal and vertical axis.

You already can visualise the vertical axis, great.

Now realise that what you call "a horizontal axis" is actually a horizontal plane,
and contains two basic axes, for the grand total of three basic axes.

 

[Dr Evil]

Okay, show me a corkscrew spin.

Corkscrew-underspin

 

[PenHoldSandro]

snakes (Adam Bobrow) are corkspin shots

 

[PenHoldSandro]

snakes (Adam Bobrow) are corkspin shots

 

[igorponger]

snakes (Adam Bobrow) are corkspin shots

Exactly. And it has a deadly effect anyway.

 

[canonFH]

A sphere can rotate in three axes. Here's a visualization:

Usually, there is a component of all three rotations when we serve, with varying amounts of amplitude. Its fun trying to isolate one and observing the effects. A good exercise to help the understanding is trying to produce sidespin serves with and without a kick effect (towards the side) or a (mostly) straight sidespin serve.

 

[igorponger]

DANISH INVENTIVE GENIUS.

It looks a new happy discovery in table tennis, Аnders Lindt now devised a sort of corkscrew variation. Well done, indeed.

 

[Metaxa]

Corkscrew-underspin

OMG, an “ordinary” sidespin with backspin. Ok, let we call it a corkscrew in the future.

 

[Metaxa]

Exactly. And it has a deadly effect anyway.

All Adam does is finish with an opposite arm movement to the spin he puts into his ball. They are just side spin balls with back/top spin.

 

[Metaxa]

A sphere can rotate in three axes. Here's a visualization:

View attachment 34652

Usually, there is a component of all three rotations when we serve, with varying amounts of amplitude. Its fun trying to isolate one and observing the effects. A good exercise to help the understanding is trying to produce sidespin serves with and without a kick effect (towards the side) or a (mostly) straight sidespin serve.

This is nice!
In my view, only a "roller" is a corkscrew because then the ball rotates through its horizontal, vertical and diagonal axis as well, making the ball spiral (backwards).

 

[Metaxa]

DANISH INVENTIVE GENIUS.

It looks a new happy discovery in table tennis, Аnders Lindt now devised a sort of corkscrew variation. Well done, indeed.

He calls it strawberry! 🍓😵‍💫

 

[Persistence TT]

Rofl the amount of time you spend to analyse for a simple rotation. Whatever the name of this spin (and no gauzy's is not a "corkscrew" spin) you can easily kill it because the point with zero rotation is right in front of you.

This corkscrew or whatever you want to call it, rotates around the axis/line that defines the double's serve/receive area

The "confusion" to this types of serves is that the contact point is under the ball and with a bit of deviation added from the server's motion, makes the receiver think that there is underspin or sideunderspin . The receiver tries to push the ball with the wrong racket angle and the ball pops up.




p.s. it is more than obvious why some people named it corkscrew ! its because its rotation is exactly the same as...guess what !

 

[Dr Evil]

OMG, an “ordinary” sidespin with backspin. Ok, let we call it a corkscrew in the future.

Call it whatever you want. You can call all 4 legged furry pets dogs, but if you want your "dog" to catch mice it might be helpful if it's actually a cat.

 

[Infernal]

One thing about corkscrew spin is that (unlike underspin or topspin) I do not think your opponent can get a 100% clean corkscrew from you: if you serve a perfect corkscrew spin, the axis of rotation is going to change once it bounces on the table. When you serve, it is going to change twice!

My point is that you never get a perfect corkscrew spin, it is gonna be more like "how many degrees is the angle between the perfect corkscrew and the one on this ball, and in what direction".

 

[Dr Evil]

One thing about corkscrew spin is that (unlike underspin or topspin) I do not think your opponent can get a 100% clean corkscrew from you: if you serve a perfect corkscrew spin, the axis of rotation is going to change once it bounces on the table. When you serve, it is going to change twice!

My point is that you never get a perfect corkscrew spin, it is gonna be more like "how many degrees is the angle between the perfect corkscrew and the one on this ball, and in what direction".

You can't get 100% corkscrew because the ball would only move left or right, never forward over the net; there has to be some top/under or sidespin component.

When the ball hits the table, friction will make it want to roll in the direction of travel; this will usually add a topspin component. This doesn't turn underspin into topspin (unless it's very light), but it does reduce the amount of underspin. The spin axis stays the same because underspin has the same spin axis as topspin. It's useful to know this if for example you want to hit a fast deadball serve. If you strike the ball without imparting any spin, the bounces on the table will add some topspin, giving the receiver an easier serve to handle. So add a little underspin to your fast long serve; the bounces will remove the underspin and give the receiver a harder time.

But what does the topspin component from the bounce do to sidespin or corkscrew spin? Here the spin axis is different, so the topspin component will tilt the spin axis, adding a corkscrew component to sidespin (which is why a pure sidespin serve tends to get a little corkscrew kick off the second bounce) and vice versa.

 

[Der_Echte]

Corkscrew-underspin

That serve had all three spins with the corkscrew bounce going against the side spin drift... so ball bounces more times on the table with the ball continuing to move/drift to the left. The corkscrew spin also controls the bounce here to help it stay lower.

It is an example of how corkscrew spin can help control a shot and bend the laws of physics that we perceive.

 

[Der_Echte]

You can't get 100% corkscrew because the ball would only move left or right, never forward over the net; there has to be some top/under or sidespin component.

When the ball hits the table, friction will make it want to roll in the direction of travel; this will usually add a topspin component. This doesn't turn underspin into topspin (unless it's very light), but it does reduce the amount of underspin. The spin axis stays the same because underspin has the same spin axis as topspin. It's useful to know this if for example you want to hit a fast deadball serve. If you strike the ball without imparting any spin, the bounces on the table will add some topspin, giving the receiver an easier serve to handle. So add a little underspin to your fast long serve; the bounces will remove the underspin and give the receiver a harder time.

But what does the topspin component from the bounce do to sidespin or corkscrew spin? Here the spin axis is different, so the topspin component will tilt the spin axis, adding a corkscrew component to sidespin (which is why a pure sidespin serve tends to get a little corkscrew kick off the second bounce) and vice versa.

IMO this is an OUTSTANDING articulation of the facts.

I would add that tables have different levels of friction coefficient for each table top.

Many of the tables we use in clubs have a pretty low friction coefficient.

The DHS tables in clubs after a few years are somewhat slick.

A certain Xiom table was made with a permanent coating of slick 50.

Butterfly Centerfold has medium friction and it does not wear off so easy.

The Butterfly Octet table has almost sandpaper like friction and it does not wear off as easy over the years of use.

At big tourneys, there are new tables which will always have more friction than the same model in the clubs used for years... so many players fail to realize and are clueless how to instinctively adjust... so many errors result for those trying to attack, especially vs slowish, light spin balls... those balls will not bounce up and continue towards you... they bounce, stop, and do not bounce as high.

You have to have a high friction table in your club and play regularly long enough for the adjustments to become natural instinctive.

Idealy, a club should have a BTY octet (high), BTY Centerfold (Medium), Joola 3000 or other similar friction Euro brand table (Lower medium) and a DHS (low after some use)

In a long tourney, like the recent 4 day US Open, the tables will become less friction by day 3 and 4.

I am glad our local gym has some BTY Octet tables stashed away, the helped me a lot on day 1 and 2.

 

[igorponger]

CORKSCREW Made in Italy

One more masterstroke of corkscrew. This one is played oftentimes by an Italy mastery guy.
Yes, everyone can do it, but very few looking to do it.

Sloth makes all things difficult, sorry. 🤪

 

[Egon]

Call it whatever you want. You can call all 4 legged furry pets dogs, but if you want your "dog" to catch mice it might be helpful if it's actually a cat.

Chihuahuas are simply naturally wired to catch rodents and will give many cats a run for their money in this matter, so as always, everything is not so clear-cut. As for the rotation of the ball, I completely agree with you, rotations along three axes and their combinations exist regardless of what they are called.