Counterloop practice

[TensorBackhand]

then you may try to get feed with something like this 😉

I was gonna use this:

 

[Aizen]

I was gonna use this:View attachment 32996

That works too, just not forget to splash some water drops to replicate sweaty balls.

 

[PoppaChubby]

Doing what you want means that you are already far from the table. Because you can't go backwards to play a move, unless it's last resort. And the closer to the table you are, the less you can be overtaken by the angle of the shot of your opponent. Counter looping mean cutting the trajectory of the ball.
And if you hit the ball after the highest point of its trajectory, it's not a counter loop.

All the pros tell the same: don't wait for the ball, specially with an hybrid rubber, just go for it, and full power ON.

be it BH

or FH

 

[TensorBackhand]

Lol this shot is not easy either. You can see, even in the demonstration he missed as many shots as he made.

 

[TensorBackhand]

Table tennis is about making the least mistakes.

So instead of jumping straight into the counterloop kill off the first topspin, I would practice this instead (stable active block:

So you pretty much try to put pressure on the opening attack of the opponent by blocking. Then it will be really hard for the opponent to attack continuously without having to 'let off the gass' a little bit. This will be your oppertunity to take over or kill the rally. This might not be as satisfying as imidiately killing the first topspin, but this can get you a long way. If you get good at this, you could get to 2300, maybe even higher.

I would also reccommend you let your practice partner serve, so you get into the habbit of stepping in for a push, and then step back for an incoming attack.

So the drill will look like this:
1. Opponent serves short backspin
2. You step in to push
3. Opponent opens up against backspin
4. You step out and actively block his attack
5. Opponent will try to continue topspinning but will most likely not be able to hit strong because you applied extra pressure.
6. You get a weaker ball that you can take over or even kill the rally.

This sounds reasonable, but I think it also sounds pretty close to the way I already play.

I was thinking of developing new technique that adds a step-function improvement over my current style of play. Ie: looping long serves instead of pushing

 

[NextLevel]

Lol this shot is not easy either. You can see, even in the demonstration he missed as many shots as he made.

yes but he is trying to play it at professional quality and you can't see his training partner. If you swing much more slowly and hit the side of the ball slightly, the timing is easier if you don't use a lot of upper arm.

 

[Amayzde]

This sounds reasonable, but I think it also sounds pretty close to the way I already play.

I was thinking of developing new technique that adds a step-function improvement over my current style of play. Ie: looping long serves instead of pushing

Im sorry but either you don't understand what I mean or you are overestimating yourself a bit here. From what I have seen, you just block all attacks coming at you passively, and you keep doing that until either the opponent eventually misses, or he outplays you.

So when you talk about adding a "step-function improvement", try to put a bit more pressure on the opponent. And the most easy logical way to do that without you having to learn an entire new stroke is to start blocking more actively, because you can already do it passively. This will either force the opponent to go back, force the opponent to slow down, or just make a mistake right away.

In those first 2 instances you will have more time to take over the rally in a more controlled manner. Rather then trying to rip the opponents first attack.

 

[Grumms]

This sounds reasonable, but I think it also sounds pretty close to the way I already play.

I was thinking of developing new technique that adds a step-function improvement over my current style of play. Ie: looping long serves instead of pushing

Like Amazyde says, you're blocking very passively and you step backwards almost all the time. You're playing like it was too risky to play forward with your body.

 

[TensorBackhand]

Im sorry but either you don't understand what I mean or you are overestimating yourself a bit here. From what I have seen, you just block all attacks coming at you passively, and you keep doing that until either the opponent eventually misses, or he outplays you.

So when you talk about adding a "step-function improvement", try to put a bit more pressure on the opponent. And the most easy logical way to do that without you having to learn an entire new stroke is to start blocking more actively, because you can already do it passively. This will either force the opponent to go back, force the opponent to slow down, or just make a mistake right away.

In those first 2 instances you will have more time to take over the rally in a more controlled manner. Rather then trying to rip the opponents first attack.

I was referring to the video you posted, it doesn't look like such an aggressive block to me. But regardless of the video, I understand your point. I can try to work on blocking more actively. Actually about 2 years ago I did try to work on this shot, but then I stopped practicing it for some reason.

Are there any other low-hanging fruit shots or techniques to work on? Ie: looping long serve, pushing short, etc? I actually don't think either of those 2 are low hanging fruit. Pushing short is extremely difficult I have found (unless the server gives you short underspin serve or you already know the serve will be short).

What do you think about my idea to have the feeder feed balls using recreational pips paddle? Today I played somebody who actually isn't as good as me. But it was a 15 year old rubber and it basically played like antispin. I kept dumping shots into the net and didn't understand why until after the match I went to touch their paddle and it was completely smooth with no grip. I think my recreational pips training would have helped.

 

[Amayzde]

I was referring to the video you posted, it doesn't look like such an aggressive block to me. But regardless of the video, I understand your point. I can try to work on blocking more actively. Actually about 2 years ago I did try to work on this shot, but then I stopped practicing it for some reason.

Sorry my bad, I wasn't specific enough. I was specificly aiming at the technique used at 0:35 for FH black video, and 4:48 for the BH one. You can see here against slower attacks the kid is actively pressing the ball down and forward to send it back faster.

Are there any other low-hanging fruit shots or techniques to work on? Ie: looping long serve, pushing short, etc? I actually don't think either of those 2 are low hanging fruit. Pushing short is extremely difficult I have found (unless the server gives you short underspin serve or you already know the serve will be short).

The active blocking I would consider a low hangin fruit already, because you seem to block alot.

The next best thing would be to practice serve and receive to the point that you can attack at least 90% of 3rd balls. Also preferrably this 3rd ball you focus on spin rather then speed. Practicing this way gives you the ability to loop any long or half-long ball.

Looping any long serve goes hand in hand with slow spin ups against 3rd balls. But instead of attacking their receive, you attack their serve straight away. This will probably be harder with the backhand than forehand. Key is to let the ball come before you strike (assuming its a spinny long serve, not fast).

Regarding touching short opposing serves, try to simplify your options. I remember in another thread you always doubt what to do on a serve because you feel overwhelmed by all the options available. So choose a 'standard' option to receive each one:
Short backspin: push long/short.
Short topspin: flick.
Short sidespin: flick.
Short nospin: push long or drop short, or flick (pick 1 of these 3 you will always use as standard receive).
Long spinny serve (any spin): let the ball come and loop with slow spinny topspin.
Long fast serve: topspin off the bounce.

What do you think about my idea to have the feeder feed balls using recreational pips paddle? Today I played somebody who actually isn't as good as me. But it was a 15 year old rubber and it basically played like antispin. I kept dumping shots into the net and didn't understand why until after the match I went to touch their paddle and it was completely smooth with no grip. I think my recreational pips training would have helped.

I don't know man, how often do you play against this? I don't think its worth spending specific training sessions thowards this. Just play them more often, you will get the hang of it quite quickly. Just focus on your own serve and 3rd ball game to the point its really solid.

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

I watched this video. Even Robert, a bona-fide pro player aka non-O.B. player misses many of this fast close to table counter-looping. What more to be said of us regular O.B. players. This is definitely not a low-hanging fruit, to borrow the phrase from T.B.

I still maintain stepping back a little to:
1. Give your self some time to swing properly and with good timing.
2. Give time for the spin on the ball to dissipate a little more to make it easier to counter-loop.
These, to me seems more ideal.

 

[NextLevel]

I watched this video. Even Robert, a bona-fide pro player aka non-O.B. player misses many of this fast close to table counter-looping. What more to be said of us regular O.B. players. This is definitely not a low-hanging fruit, to borrow the phrase from T.B.

I still maintain stepping back a little to:
1. Give your self some time to swing properly and with good timing.
2. Give time for the spin on the ball to dissipate a little more to make it easier to counter-loop.
These, to me seems more ideal.

That is the biggest thing Robert is missing, most players, even Robert in some matches, do take a small step back. That said, Robert plays an extremely close to the table game and is a bit of an outlier in the men's game in how aggressively off the bounce he plays.

 

[TensorBackhand]

Sorry my bad, I wasn't specific enough. I was specificly aiming at the technique used at 0:35 for FH black video, and 4:48 for the BH one. You can see here against slower attacks the kid is actively pressing the ball down and forward to send it back faster.


The active blocking I would consider a low hangin fruit already, because you seem to block alot.

The next best thing would be to practice serve and receive to the point that you can attack at least 90% of 3rd balls. Also preferrably this 3rd ball you focus on spin rather then speed. Practicing this way gives you the ability to loop any long or half-long ball.

Looping any long serve goes hand in hand with slow spin ups against 3rd balls. But instead of attacking their receive, you attack their serve straight away. This will probably be harder with the backhand than forehand. Key is to let the ball come before you strike (assuming its a spinny long serve, not fast).

Regarding touching short opposing serves, try to simplify your options. I remember in another thread you always doubt what to do on a serve because you feel overwhelmed by all the options available. So choose a 'standard' option to receive each one:
Short backspin: push long/short.
Short topspin: flick.
Short sidespin: flick.
Short nospin: push long or drop short, or flick (pick 1 of these 3 you will always use as standard receive).
Long spinny serve (any spin): let the ball come and loop with slow spinny topspin.
Long fast serve: topspin off the bounce.



I don't know man, how often do you play against this? I don't think its worth spending specific training sessions thowards this. Just play them more often, you will get the hang of it quite quickly. Just focus on your own serve and 3rd ball game to the point its really solid.

Ok, that makes sense.

I'm very uncomfortable with 3rd ball. Unless the ball is CLEARLY long or high, I'm always afraid of hitting my hand or paddle on the table.

Also, I feel like I'm very slow to get into position after my pendulum serve. it's like my feet are still sideways and the ball is already coming back towards me.

 

[NextLevel]

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

Yes! Yes! Yes!

This is the low hanging fruit counter-looping.