Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

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Carl, I know it's all fun and games and that's fine, but coming here to read a quality post from you on the subject that is being discussed, and then essentially being called a ****** and unskilled isn't exactly the TTD experience I'm looking for. :rolleyes:

I don't know if I made a comment on you skill. Just your dishonesty and your penchant for immediately plagiarizing phrases that other people have used and then presenting that you are performing those technical skills. And, yes, if you throw stuff out there like that as often as you do, I have to say, it is up for grabs for trouble makers to make fun of your ridiculousness.

So, basically, if you want a different TT experience, and I am all for that, ditch the dishonesty and the talk about things that your videos don't show you doing.

BTW: I am still waiting for footage of your hook, corkscrew and fade loops from back when corkscrew was a buzz word for you. When was that? Well it was shortly after Shuki and I met and Shuki described my sidespin loops as cork. After you grabbed onto the term, you were on and on about one loop hook, one loop cork, one loop inside-out.
 
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@UpSideDownCarl

I understand your point. I'm grateful that you're even trying to reason with me and help me. However troublemakers need to be addressed. I could be considered one of those troublemakers, so I guess it's just the circle of life. ;)

@Shuki

Just because we're on a forum doesn't mean I have to let people treat me however I want. They're free to, but I don't need to sit there and take it.
 
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I want to have a poll about who uses the term "Whip Mechanics" more between NextLevel and Archosaurus! And then there is the question of whether Archo has ever actually done whip mechanics in a TT stroke. Other kinds of stroking, maybe. :)


Not going to lie - Archo knows more of the TT lingo than i do!! that and i'm a slow learner... only recently did i learn 'pivot' was the motion after one serves pendulum on bh side to move to use FH to hit 3rd ball

LOLOL at me

EDIT: my old man memory is da suck ... i recall learning 'inside out loop' recently also and one other term which escapes me now :(
 
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Not going to lie - Archo knows more of the TT lingo than i do!! that and i'm a slow learner... only recently did i learn 'pivot' was the motion after one serves pendulum on bh side to move to use FH to hit 3rd ball

LOLOL at me
Here is an archosaurus post from another forum written in February this year that proves your point:

Archosaurus said:
Hello and sorry for the somewhat necro from mid last year, I just think I should add this in case the OP is still watching.


Some background first:


I am not a coach, professional player or even notable amateur. I am just very interested in table tennis mechanics and I can practice what I preach. So feel free to shoot me down because x coach said so, but do remember that there's many ways to skin a cat. The concepts discussed here are fairly "advanced" to most players in the west, but they are fundamentals IMO. It's not anything magical, and you can learn it too.


I play "Chinese style" with European rubber on both sides, focusing on third ball attack and performing long strokes from close, mid and long range, and performing shorter, more bent elbow strokes from just right at the table or when caught with a fast ball to my elbow. This is for forehand only.




Tip number 1: Make sure your drive is good.


The drive is the foundation of the modern loop, and it is the basis for the body mechanics in the loop. Truly under-appreciated.


While there is nothing wrong with learning the slow, high arc, spinny loops described here, in fact you must learn and perfect those, it is inherently not a very quality shot. Practiced and drilled players have no problems killing every shot like that unless it's a counterloop rally where they're performed due to the inherent safety of them, while trying to gain a better foothold for a better stroke.


The slow, spinny loop is essentially suicide if you throw one out when you could be performing the modern loopdrive. (Unless, you're playing a lower player and they struggle with topspin. Go ahead and throw very spinny loops at them and watch them make unforced errors.)


Now, we've all heard about the loopdrive. What it essentially is, is a very dynamic and powerful loop, with a swing geometry closer to a drive than a loop. You sacrifice just a little consistency and spin for far better speed, placement and accuracy while not actually giving up too much spin. It should have a very visible arc compared to a drive of somewhat comparable pace but much less so than a loop of a comparable pace.


Many players, myself included, prefer to brush the ball than to drive the ball when looping. That is also what is taught in the west and what is considered correct. I would have to disagree.


The reason why most players' natural swing is a straight line, where you essentially chop into the ball upwards and your blade angle is close to or exact to your swing angle, is because it's easy and safe. You also do not have to involve the forearm when doing this, you can just pivot upwards from the elbow and you will produce a consistent shot of acceptable quality quite comfortably.


What you want to be doing is a swing geometry that starts more vertical and levels out more horizontal by the end of it. The best way to do this is to drive with the elbow starting close to the side of the body and finishing far and high from the body, with the blade angle closed, and your swing geometry more "closed" than your blade angle. You're hitting more than you're brushing along the side of the ball, while still producing considerable topspin due to the blade angle and the lifting motion.


The stroke mechanics when driving forwards is actually quite similar to traditional tennis. The forearm "lags" behind and on contact the elbow snaps violently across the body, to the left of your head, perhaps even nearly behind your head when looping very heavy backspin. Your arm will be quite extended just before contact and "loading up" for the snap. Of course, you will be relaxed when doing this.
Recovery is elliptical.




The main point is to drive with the elbow and control the placement with the elbow, and not to brush in a straight line across the ball. The reason you want to drive INTO the ball, while also performing the brushing motion upwards is because modern rubber responds better to sinking the ball into the sponge than skimming it across the topsheet. This is especially true for Chinese rubbers.


The stroke can be performed with European, Japanese, Chinese, whatever rubber. Chinese rubber just benefits a lot due to the technology. I play with non-top end European rubber, and the stroke has worked even with absolutely rubbish bats.


Take a look at Ma Long for the perfect example of straight arm looping with this technique, and also compare your drive motion to his drive motion, especially what your body is doing during the movement. most examples I have seen posted here have "worse" body mechanics for this stroke. I call it "lazy posture". Too straight knees, not enough leaning the torso over to shift weight, not enough driving with the hips. Lazy. (Take into account your physical state, of course. Young players can do this better and you might have to adapt your style. This is from the perspective of a young adult.)


When performing Ma Long's drive motion, you will most likely hit every ball into the net at first, unless you're using a very fast bat. In that case, get a slow wooden beginner's bat.


Once you begin to understand the timing for the hip and shoulder drive and the relation between body and arm mechanics, your regular drives will carry outstanding pace and quality, and you will probably outdo your current loop in everything expect pure topspin. Then once you're certain that your drive is good and you're not just "winging it" in terms of what feels right, you can start to incorporate it into your looping.




Of course, don't blindly copy x player's strokes, especially if their serves and equipment largely differ from yours. Do compare the mechanics between their stroke and your stroke. Even in the CNT there's a dozen ways to skin a cat. They all share the same fundamental aspects, though.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsg4M6fOObI




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-b-n4dHT5U


Some tips for the end:


Place weight on your soles and lift your heels slightly.
Squat lower than you normally do. Far lower.
Learn further than you normally do. Not too much.
Have a wider stance than you normally do.
Have your rear leg further behind than you normally do. If out of position, prefer to push front leg than to pull rear leg. More balanced, less load transfer.
Strike the ball far more to the side, with your body at a 45 degree angle to the playing direction.
Lean forward through the entirety of the stroke.
Tense your core slightly, then fully tense it on impact and release.


You know you're doing it right when it feels like you're doing a crunch and squat at the same time.


Hope it helps and doesn't start a convex vs concave loop discussion. ;)


I'd love to give more tips on looping, but the body mechanics are essentially the same for driving and can be learned from observing pro players with great mechanics, and using your head. I also do not have any credibility, so yeah.
 
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That's a great post: it shows just how much progress I've made! I'm not sure I can remember how many words I didn't/actually did understand when I wrote that.

Perhaps years down the line I will link that to newbies to demonstrate just how clueless someone can be, but they might get confused and think I'm linking them to a serious resource. :rolleyes:

Read that for a good laugh/cringe, but do consider I've perhaps increased my understanding of the sport since. But to be fair, there hasn't been a whole lot of time between that post and now: so make your judgments.
 
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That's a great post: it shows just how much progress I've made! I'm not sure I can remember how many words I didn't/actually did understand when I wrote that.

Perhaps years down the line I will link that to newbies to demonstrate just how clueless someone can be, but they might get confused and think I'm linking them to a serious resource. :rolleyes:

Read that for a good laugh/cringe, but do consider I've perhaps increased my understanding of the sport since. But to be fair, there hasn't been a whole lot of time between that post and now: so make your judgments.

Good players don't understand table tennis. They play it. Good coaches understand table tennis after they played it.

Merry Christmas (before returning to ignorance).
 
During this holiday season, anyone else going through a TT withdrawal?

My TT community center that I play weeknights has been closed this past week (and will be closed until the first Tuesday in 2017). Next, the Saturday club is not sure if they'll be open tomorrow.

So no TT for over a week. And another week to go..........
 
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"Even in the CNT there's a dozen ways to skin a cat."


Okay, I'm a professional player at the highest level. Trust me, there were no cats harmed in the CNT player's training sessions. Arch you're a damn liar.
 
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So prize winners, be patient with me. I have some travelling and some stuff to do. I should get Ritchie and RayLazyFo's stuff out tomorrow, but I am currently squeezed for time and have to travel so I may not get it all out, though if I conclude negotations with you today, I will try. Anyone wanting Karis will have wait a little longer.

I don't have a disciplined order or routine for the prizes/gifts. But you will all get something, even if it is early next year because of international mail.

Still waiting on Boogar and SchemeSC to make first contact.
 
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During this holiday season, anyone else going through a TT withdrawal?

My TT community center that I play weeknights has been closed this past week (and will be closed until the first Tuesday in 2017). Next, the Saturday club is not sure if they'll be open tomorrow.

So no TT for over a week. And another week to go..........

No touching a table for a little bit over half a month for me. If I start posting weird(er) things here, you know why.
 
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Good players don't understand table tennis. They play it. Good coaches understand table tennis after they played it.

Merry Christmas (before returning to ignorance).

I find that the better the player, the simpler their suggestions will be when they are coaching me.


The fact of the matter that archo spews more words (more like shit) than my coach who has a paralympic gold medal shows just how un-necessary they are
 
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During this holiday season, anyone else going through a TT withdrawal?

My TT community center that I play weeknights has been closed this past week (and will be closed until the first Tuesday in 2017). Next, the Saturday club is not sure if they'll be open tomorrow.

So no TT for over a week. And another week to go..........

For sure, around this time last year I got my current equipment. I literally could not sleep because I wanted to play so much. I don't think I've ever felt like that for any sport before, its gotta be true love. And I can't really play until I'm back in the UK now and I'm itching to play!
 
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Read that for a good laugh/cringe, but do consider I've perhaps increased my understanding of the sport since.

You see Archo, the level of dishonesty has just morphed because we have called your bluff and it is clear you can't snow us like that ridiculous post. But you still try and snow us with pretty much every post you make. If you actually posted with some level of honesty, we would be able to tell. Because it would be very different. Very different.



Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy
 
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You see Archo, the level of dishonesty has just morphed because we have called your bluff and it is clear you can't snow us like that ridiculous post. But you still try and snow us with pretty much every post you make. If you actually posted with some level of honesty, we would be able to tell. Because it would be very different. Very different.



Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

is it dishonesty when he actually believes what he writes?
 
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is it dishonesty when he actually believes what he writes?

"I play Chinese style with European rubbers," cough?

I hear so much of what comes out of Archo as dishonest and trying to game us.

I don't care. I know, on some level he is a good kid who wants to learn to play the game. But most of his comments fall into a few categories all of which have a level of dishonesty to them.

1) trying to present himself as an expert on something or as though he knows what he is talking about.
2) trying to get approval from guys on the forum. Trouble is, he would really, actually, already have it if he was just honest.
3) trying to present something in a dramatic or outrageous way to get a response, a reaction or start a flame war.

There is a reason he ends up on people's ignore list. You may remember from first hand experience how he got on yours a few times.


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy
 
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At Mytt, people watching my videos commented on how bad (illegal) my serve tosses were and I made a note of three things to fix.

1. Pause before the serve with ball in ready position in tossing hand for at least 3 seconds.
2. Toss ball consistently to eye level/head height without raising the tossing hand - reduces significance of backward tosses.
3. If toss is low (around 6 inches to 1 ft), make the toss vertical.
4. In general, avoid backward tosses.

My forehand serves are going be usable but my backhand serves will need a lot of work. I played okay today but forgot my camera stand. I will try to fix these serve issues asap.
 
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"I play Chinese style with European rubbers," cough?

I hear so much of what comes out of Archo as dishonest and trying to game us.

I don't care. I know, on some level he is a good kid who wants to learn to play the game. But most of his comments fall into a few categories all of which have a level of dishonesty to them.

1) trying to present himself as an expert on something or as though he knows what he is talking about.
2) trying to get approval from guys on the forum. Trouble is, he would really, actually, already have it if he was just honest.
3) trying to present something in a dramatic or outrageous way to get a response, a reaction or start a flame war.

There is a reason he ends up on people's ignore list. You may remember from first hand experience how he got on yours a few times.


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

Looking at his comments I thought at least even if he's not good, he knows how to create top and backspin.

I laughed my ass off when I saw the video of what seems to me a chicken swinging TT paddle. Now, I won't look down on someone who's eager to learn, in fact i've always been feeding multiball for my friends, both better and worse players than me.

But archo doesn't ask questions, he speaks as if he understands and what makes it worse, it only serves to confuse people
who are looking for solutions
 
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