Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

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@NextLevel

So what do you recommend then? That I don't strive to be able to hit the ball more properly when I have to move into it, and just try to reach for the ball and fall into it instead? When should I start focusing on moving, when my forehand is 2000 level and I can hit the ball properly?

@UpSideDownCarl

There are. However I can't just will the camera to float in the air and film from those angles.
The usual answer is to focus on what is costing you matches. In the absence of that do whatever you enjoy. Makes the delusion no less fascinatingly ridiculous.
 
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The usual answer is to focus on what is costing you matches. In the absence of that do whatever you enjoy. Makes the delusion no less fascinatingly ridiculous.

There's only a select few people I've played who can really show me my weaknesses, and I've always got balls blasted past me after a forehand from my forehand corner. It has been too weak because I was late to it, or things just weren't timed right.

I've been working to increase the quality of my shots, because that will obviously help with the whole "too weak" thing, but I'm also working on my movement towards my forehand.

There's other things as well that would be worthwhile to work on, but I feel that shot quality and forehand movement are my priority and they kind of go hand in hand in some situations.


Knowing this, I don't understand why you think I'm being unreasonable with what I'm trying to work on, or that I'm imagining my issues.

Imagine for a bit that you just simply couldn't play a good shot against a ball to your middle, because you always have to take it very cramped and your shot is not good due to that. You don't know how to properly move out of the way of the ball, and you don't think that just playing a stronger shot from that compromised position is a good idea. Wouldn't it be sensible to improve your footwork so you can do a better shot?
 
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I may have missed something but the amount of missed serves, serve returns and third balls seem like enough to show some weaknesses even if you don't realize your opponent is showing you your weaknesses.


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy
 
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I may have missed something but the amount of missed serves, serve returns and third balls seem like enough to show some weaknesses even if you don't realize your opponent is showing you your weaknesses.


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

He missed those shots because of footwork errors. Zhang Jike analysis will set him straight.
 
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There's only a select few people I've played who can really show me my weaknesses, and I've always got balls blasted past me after a forehand from my forehand corner. It has been too weak because I was late to it, or things just weren't timed right.

I've been working to increase the quality of my shots, because that will obviously help with the whole "too weak" thing, but I'm also working on my movement towards my forehand.

There's other things as well that would be worthwhile to work on, but I feel that shot quality and forehand movement are my priority and they kind of go hand in hand in some situations.


Knowing this, I don't understand why you think I'm being unreasonable with what I'm trying to work on, or that I'm imagining my issues.

Imagine for a bit that you just simply couldn't play a good shot against a ball to your middle, because you always have to take it very cramped and your shot is not good due to that. You don't know how to properly move out of the way of the ball, and you don't think that just playing a stronger shot from that compromised position is a good idea. Wouldn't it be sensible to improve your footwork so you can do a better shot?

Sometimes, people just like to argue and pretend emotional decisions are rational. Like I said already, do whatever you enjoy, it doesn't make the delusion any less fascinatingly ridiculous.
 
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As you know in my previous post i was out for about 5 months. I normally take a lesson every Saturday from my coach and this was the 4th time playing since coming back from injury. Played at about 75%.

1. I am very bad at stepping in and lowering my right side to rotate into a forehand loop when looping short under spin returns. Coach tells me my right leg stays too far back and semi late to the ball. I grew up as a junior with this footwork and can't seem to kick this habit and try to stay more parallel to the front edge of the table. This also happens in when i start doing backhands my left leg stays too forward. Any advice on how to kick this bad habit?

2. I notice my T05 backhand loops arcs more and dips more than my MX-P forehand. Coach said it was my backhand has more spin which i seem to agree. Should i change to a softer rubber with more grip(go to T05 or EL-S). I have moved from H3Neo Provincial to MX-P for about 2 months. I like the hardness of the MX-P because it feels close to H3 Neo but this may be bad for my game when i feel i should be spinning the first ball more on opening loops.

3. Adjustments in game. I normally play a 3 out of 5 set with my coach at end of the session. She spots me 7 points. I am usatt rated at 1500 and she is 2450(ex provincial bejing player). Last week i was looping backhand very well on opening under spin balls and took 2 games and eventually lost. This week she changes up and starts shortening the under spin ball to semi short distance and i had to shorten my stroke to compensate...balls went flying off the table. She also started putting the under spin returns to my middle more. My footwork sucks as you can tell from number 1 paragraph. Maybe i should start pushing the ball back and let the her loop. But she tends to loop deep into the corners and with my bad footwork, i am always late to the ball.

4. This weekday i worked on my reverse pendulum serve and in practice..its lands 60 to 70% of the time, but during game play the serves go wacko due to being amped up and not being calm. How do you stay calm in game play and stay focused?

That's my rant for the week. Comments and advice welcomed. :D

I may take next week off due to my shoulder tendinitis hinting at flaring up. Cortizone shots, celebrex, tumeric, stretching, yoga, PT and massages..i do it all just to play Table Tennis. I wont give up!!!
 
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@UpSideDownCarl
@NextLevel

Just because I am working on my issues does not mean they will fix themselves for the next video, or the video after that. They will be issues for a long time even if I am working on them. I can't just decide one day that all of my missed 3rd balls will stop and all of my pop-ups will stop, and then it will happen.

The idea that I am making my partner serve to me so I can practice pushing his serve is just unthinkable, right? It's also just not possible that I practice serves an hour a day or more. Clearly if I was doing those things off-cam, I would serve and return serve like the CNT by now!

But no, I don't do any of that off-cam. The only training I do is the footwork analysis and 10 - 20 minutes of video that TTD sees. My training exists in a TTD vacuum and the things I talk about here are the sole things I practice, and nothing more. :rolleyes:
 
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What happens if you fh-spin after twiddling, ie using the T05? Your issue sounds very familiar; was taught the same way, way back when.

I tried serving with the T05 but felt it was slower for the quick side topspin serves...It felt like it was soft. Also tried looping with the T05 on the forehand side, felt it was digging in a little more but it felt so different from the MX-P that i twiddled back after a few strokes. Maybe it takes time to get used to it.

I ordered Tibhar hybrid K1 Plus from HongKong...supposedly German made for the Asian market only. Like the the name says, Hybrid...maybe it will be better for spinning.

Or go order the Nexy Karis M or M+ that Nextlevel and Baal are using now. Its more linear and control oriented.
 
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Numnutz, a shoe. As long as the lens is up, it works. If your phone is too thin, a sock in the shoe with the phone. Do you really need it spelled out:

cache.php


Yes, that is me taking a photo of a phone in my shoe on an NYC Subway train. It's the Q train so I didn't get run off the train for smelly feet. On the Q they are civilized these days. [emoji2]


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

What did you use to take a photo of your smartphone? The second smartphone for special occasions like this one?
 
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@UpSideDownCarl
@NextLevel

Just because I am working on my issues does not mean they will fix themselves for the next video, or the video after that. They will be issues for a long time even if I am working on them. I can't just decide one day that all of my missed 3rd balls will stop and all of my pop-ups will stop, and then it will happen.

The idea that I am making my partner serve to me so I can practice pushing his serve is just unthinkable, right? It's also just not possible that I practice serves an hour a day or more. Clearly if I was doing those things off-cam, I would serve and return serve like the CNT by now!

But no, I don't do any of that off-cam. The only training I do is the footwork analysis and 10 - 20 minutes of video that TTD sees. My training exists in a TTD vacuum and the things I talk about here are the sole things I practice, and nothing more. :rolleyes:

It's fun arguing with people who tend to know more table tennis than they play. They sometimes pretend to defer to your expertise and experience but more often than not, they are really trying to prove they know more than you do. That way, they justify addressing all the problems that will prevent them from reaching 2700 but don't address the ones that simply make them not as good as you are.

Addressing any table tennis issue takes a lot of hours. Usually guided hours with good feedback. Sometimes amounts to months. Just the mere fact that something is being taken to be an issue means that energy is being expended solving it. But of course for a amateur, that means less energy is being spent elsewhere. In the end it all adds up but lower rated players don't get that.

Part of what a good coach does is understand what is critical to improve at your level and what isn't. The idea is that the coach has seen what you haven't seen so he had a better idea of the path that lies ahead. Doesn't make him infallible but makes him better informed. All it takes is for someone to watch a CNT video and they can say how wrong the coach is.

I have a friend who has a tremendous backhand. More a Henzell or Persson style shot than a Zhang Jike style shot. To no end, the CNT fanbois are telling him his technique is wrong. You should see the back hands of the critics.

In any case, people will say all kinds of stuff to explain or defend themselves. The good thing is that it shows they have big dreams.
 
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@NextLevel

In the interest of time-economy, I believe I understand what you mean. Maybe my time and energy used in improving my footwork will be better spent in improving my push or serve, in the long run. We only have a finite amount of time and energy, and it can be used inefficiently. Is that what you mean?
 
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Here's my two cents ...
As you know in my previous post i was out for about 5 months. I normally take a lesson every Saturday from my coach and this was the 4th time playing since coming back from injury. Played at about 75%.

1. I am very bad at stepping in and lowering my right side to rotate into a forehand loop when looping short under spin returns. Coach tells me my right leg stays too far back and semi late to the ball. I grew up as a junior with this footwork and can't seem to kick this habit and try to stay more parallel to the front edge of the table. This also happens in when i start doing backhands my left leg stays too forward. Any advice on how to kick this bad habit?

I would say multi ball where you have to loop /flick/push over the table short to your forehand followed by a backhand loop from your backhand corner.

2. I notice my T05 backhand loops arcs more and dips more than my MX-P forehand. Coach said it was my backhand has more spin which i seem to agree. Should i change to a softer rubber with more grip(go to T05 or EL-S). I have moved from H3Neo Provincial to MX-P for about 2 months. I like the hardness of the MX-P because it feels close to H3 Neo but this may be bad for my game when i feel i should be spinning the first ball more on opening loops.

My backhand is spinny too , that is if I time it right :) . I would say its partly to do with the rubber characteristic , MX-P has a lower arc compared to 0. My backhands with T05 had higher arcs compared to MX-P . The problem is we try to visually estimate the spin from the arc of the ball , but there are balls which we take off the bounce which might be spinny but not have too much arc . So I would not worry about it . I would definitely worry about controlling the speed of the opening loop. You should be able to do with H3 , for me , I can do with with H8 , but I have to agree at our level , slow loops with tenergy has more spin comared to H3 , I don't think Chinese rubbers encourage the style of play with slow spinny opening loops .

3. Adjustments in game. I normally play a 3 out of 5 set with my coach at end of the session. She spots me 7 points. I am usatt rated at 1500 and she is 2450(ex provincial bejing player). Last week i was looping backhand very well on opening under spin balls and took 2 games and eventually lost. This week she changes up and starts shortening the under spin ball to semi short distance and i had to shorten my stroke to compensate...balls went flying off the table. She also started putting the under spin returns to my middle more. My footwork sucks as you can tell from number 1 paragraph. Maybe i should start pushing the ball back and let the her loop. But she tends to loop deep into the corners and with my bad footwork, i am always late to the ball.

Balls flying off the table can be due to multiple factor , not estimating the spin , getting to the ball too late , trying to loop with a stiff hand. I normally try to use a softer grip with more brush to compensate but you have to figure out your issue to fix. For the short ball to the middle, either you have to open with backhand flip or push it with intent so that the the quality of her opening loop is not high, that is more to her elbow or deep into corners. where she is not expecting it . the other option is to drop it short but then that would need more footwork.

4. This weekday i worked on my reverse pendulum serve and in practice..its lands 60 to 70% of the time, but during game play the serves go wacko due to being amped up and not being calm. How do you stay calm in game play and stay focused?

Staying calm in the game play and focussed would be something you would have to figure out how to do . Its a perennial problem , which also partly has to to do with your physical fitness. I have found that if I am not fit enough, my heart pumps harder and staying calm is more difficult. However, you can always take your time and deep breath and focus on little things. I generally remind me to adjust the grip pressure and the height of the contact of the ball to keep it short. When receiving serve , focus on the blade and first bounce. Also try to take mental time out in case you find out that you are rushing physically or mentally , as in trying to second guess too much and ending up pushing long balls etc.

That's my rant for the week. Comments and advice welcomed. :D

I may take next week off due to my shoulder tendinitis hinting at flaring up. Cortizone shots, celebrex, tumeric, stretching, yoga, PT and massages..i do it all just to play Table Tennis. I wont give up!!![/QUOTE]
 
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@NextLevel

In the interest of time-economy, I believe I understand what you mean. Maybe my time and energy used in improving my footwork will be better spent in improving my push or serve, in the long run. We only have a finite amount of time and energy, and it can be used inefficiently. Is that what you mean?

I already said repeatedly that you should do whatever you enjoy in the absence of match feedback. For time economy, stop arguing with people who know more about this sport than you do
 
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Here's my two cents ...


I would say multi ball where you have to loop /flick/push over the table short to your forehand followed by a backhand loop from your backhand corner.



My backhand is spinny too , that is if I time it right :) . I would say its partly to do with the rubber characteristic , MX-P has a lower arc compared to 0. My backhands with T05 had higher arcs compared to MX-P . The problem is we try to visually estimate the spin from the arc of the ball , but there are balls which we take off the bounce which might be spinny but not have too much arc . So I would not worry about it . I would definitely worry about controlling the speed of the opening loop. You should be able to do with H3 , for me , I can do with with H8 , but I have to agree at our level , slow loops with tenergy has more spin comared to H3 , I don't think Chinese rubbers encourage the style of play with slow spinny opening loops .



Balls flying off the table can be due to multiple factor , not estimating the spin , getting to the ball too late , trying to loop with a stiff hand. I normally try to use a softer grip with more brush to compensate but you have to figure out your issue to fix. For the short ball to the middle, either you have to open with backhand flip or push it with intent so that the the quality of her opening loop is not high, that is more to her elbow or deep into corners. where she is not expecting it . the other option is to drop it short but then that would need more footwork.



Staying calm in the game play and focussed would be something you would have to figure out how to do . Its a perennial problem , which also partly has to to do with your physical fitness. I have found that if I am not fit enough, my heart pumps harder and staying calm is more difficult. However, you can always take your time and deep breath and focus on little things. I generally remind me to adjust the grip pressure and the height of the contact of the ball to keep it short. When receiving serve , focus on the blade and first bounce. Also try to take mental time out in case you find out that you are rushing physically or mentally , as in trying to second guess too much and ending up pushing long balls etc.

That's my rant for the week. Comments and advice welcomed. :D

I may take next week off due to my shoulder tendinitis hinting at flaring up. Cortizone shots, celebrex, tumeric, stretching, yoga, PT and massages..i do it all just to play Table Tennis. I wont give up!!!
[/QUOTE]

Great Advice ttmonster.

1. I was planning on me serving short under spin and coach returns to my backhand or forehand and i do looping. I think my first step is very late after the serve, so i need to turn facing the table quicker. I can loop semi short or long under spin in multi ball practice pretty well. I will also add looping from them backhand corner, never thought of that. Looping chopping under spin multiball, now that is a sad sad story i wont get into this week.

2. Hopefully with more practice opening spinning loops will become easier or just change to a slower rubber with more control.

3. Yeah, maybe i will try pushing at different angles and depths.

4. Yeah, focus on my grip pressure like when i am practicing. Take long deep breaths like when i do my Yoga.

Thanks again TTMONSTER for the advice.
 
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42bp,

It's hard to comment without video.

That said, looping half long balls is a forearm snap issue. In general, many of your comments about your game don't show you have fully accepted that with your health, you are capped by your forearm snap speed and power. Most of your strokes should be played over your right hip and should be forearm snap powered.

2. It's a common and unfortunate belief that a forehand needs to be a full power stroke for everyone. For a long time, all I wanted was for my forehand to be competent. I suspect that you are still hitting the ball way too hard on your forehand. 05 does feel softer than MX-P and my opinion is that ball quality should be the focus not the feeling of the shot. An opinion earned through lots of EJing...

3. Can't help without video.

4. Reverse pendulum is the most difficult serve to do, had to become a religious practice or it falls apart. Use every time until it clicks. Do not try to serve it short.
 
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@NL , why do you say don't try to serve reverse pendulum short ?
42bp,

It's hard to comment without video.

That said, looping half long balls is a forearm snap issue. In general, many of your comments about your game don't show you have fully accepted that with your health, you are capped by your forearm snap speed and power. Most of your strokes should be played over your right hip and should be forearm snap powered.

2. It's a common and unfortunate belief that a forehand needs to be a full power stroke for everyone. For a long time, all I wanted was for my forehand to be competent. I suspect that you are still hitting the ball way too hard on your forehand. 05 does feel softer than MX-P and my opinion is that ball quality should be the focus not the feeling of the shot. An opinion earned through lots of EJing...

3. Can't help without video.

4. Reverse pendulum is the most difficult serve to do, had to become a religious practice or it falls apart. Use every time until it clicks. Do not try to serve it short.
 
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Tomorrow, I am going to do the following:

I will set up my usual phone in a better filming location as suggested here, using my newly developed, highly advanced propping technology. :rolleyes:



I will also prop up another phone I have and film from the angle I usually film from. Then I will upload both.

Perhaps then I will see why everyone is stressing me to film from a better angle.
 
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@NL , why do you say don't try to serve reverse pendulum short ?

If you can serve it short, then do so but, as a general rule, if you are trying to serve a server short, you don't have control over it. It's a Yoda thing.
 
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