Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[Matteones]

Season is practically finished and the summer of trying has come!

My usual setup is a very head heavy W968 (208-210 grams depending on how much glue I put on it) with boosted BS H3 and non-boosted dragon power 55 which some of my students and other coaches have nicknamed "Thor's hammer". It easily gives the best quality and the most amount of spin of any blades I have ever tried but quick transitions are a nightmare, and it doesn't forgive anything, I must always be in the best position with my legs.
It brings my style of play (which already relies a lot on spin and deception and closing out the point as fast as possible) to the extreme, giving a boost to both my strengths and my weaknesses (I am really not fast when the ball doesn't go where I expect it to go and I have large movements).
It's a pleasure because since I came back to serious table tennis 2-3 years ago I finally feel like I've come back to my best level and I can make a lot of points out of sheer spin like in the good old times, but the drawbacks are serious and I'm not getting any younger or faster.

Here is what I'm trying: Stiga inspira plus (I wanted a Viscaria like blade, just not the Viscaria ), DHS Wang Chuqin (the commercial version) and Freitas ALC, all with the same rubbers I use on W968 to have the best comparison possible.

I have tried the Inspira plus for 5-6 hours and in some friendly matches and whilst it is much more maneuverable (200 grams and less head heavy), much faster in lower gears and extremely fun and friendly to play a couple of metres behind the table especially, I find myself looking for my backhand (amazing backhand) more and more as I do not like its' forehand (special mention to the extreme low bounce of the first forehand opening though, real chinese style). Also the spin is considerably less. I knew I wouldn't really like it because whilst I love koto on backhand, I just never like it on forehand.

Yesterday I've tried the Wang Chuqin and I really really liked it. At 202 grams and not as head heavy as the W968 it felt like it rounded the hard edges of my W968: a bit faster, more forgiving, better transitions, a lot easier when out of position, very good backhand and no noticeable difference in the forehand. The takeaway is that the absolute spin and quality is less than with W968, but not that much. Also it was very easy to transition to from W968, I will play our yearly local club tournament with it tomorrow, but I really really have a feeling that this might be the right choice for me.

@dingyibvs is the difference between commercial and national q968 (which is on sale on prott 😁😁) very noticeable? To me the difference between long 5 commercial and W968 was noticeable (W968 was really long 5 on steroid, slightly better backhand and more stable) but the transition was seam-less, and needed no adaptation time at all.

I haven't tried the Freitas ALC yet, but I am very curious to try it with its' limba outer.
I think I will try the new Darko Jorgic Infinity when it comes out, and hope in the miracle that it will give me the perfect solution for forehand and backhand .
All of this in preparation of my turn with Sergio of SDC (in one year or two I imagine), so that I know what I want and can order 2-3 perfect blades

 

[Tyce]

So after a few weeks on H3 and similar (Battle 2, pf4, H3 37) on BH I'm starting to miss the qualities of more tensor rubber again. I love how it plays with Chinese tacky, but I don't have the physique to make it through a game night with more than a few sets of good play.
So I've gone kind of full circle and put G1 and C1 on my Korbel. I was initially thinking of using the Fextra but I wanted to keep hurricane on it because it's currently the setup I feel like I can play the easiest with.
I wonder what G1 will do on a slower blade (this time) with the experience I've gathered.

 

[dingyibvs]

Season is practically finished and the summer of trying has come!

My usual setup is a very head heavy W968 (208-210 grams depending on how much glue I put on it) with boosted BS H3 and non-boosted dragon power 55 which some of my students and other coaches have nicknamed "Thor's hammer". It easily gives the best quality and the most amount of spin of any blades I have ever tried but quick transitions are a nightmare, and it doesn't forgive anything, I must always be in the best position with my legs.
It brings my style of play (which already relies a lot on spin and deception and closing out the point as fast as possible) to the extreme, giving a boost to both my strengths and my weaknesses (I am really not fast when the ball doesn't go where I expect it to go and I have large movements).
It's a pleasure because since I came back to serious table tennis 2-3 years ago I finally feel like I've come back to my best level and I can make a lot of points out of sheer spin like in the good old times, but the drawbacks are serious and I'm not getting any younger or faster.

Here is what I'm trying: Stiga inspira plus (I wanted a Viscaria like blade, just not the Viscaria ), DHS Wang Chuqin (the commercial version) and Freitas ALC, all with the same rubbers I use on W968 to have the best comparison possible.

I have tried the Inspira plus for 5-6 hours and in some friendly matches and whilst it is much more maneuverable (200 grams and less head heavy), much faster in lower gears and extremely fun and friendly to play a couple of metres behind the table especially, I find myself looking for my backhand (amazing backhand) more and more as I do not like its' forehand (special mention to the extreme low bounce of the first forehand opening though, real chinese style). Also the spin is considerably less. I knew I wouldn't really like it because whilst I love koto on backhand, I just never like it on forehand.

Yesterday I've tried the Wang Chuqin and I really really liked it. At 202 grams and not as head heavy as the W968 it felt like it rounded the hard edges of my W968: a bit faster, more forgiving, better transitions, a lot easier when out of position, very good backhand and no noticeable difference in the forehand. The takeaway is that the absolute spin and quality is less than with W968, but not that much. Also it was very easy to transition to from W968, I will play our yearly local club tournament with it tomorrow, but I really really have a feeling that this might be the right choice for me.

@dingyibvs is the difference between commercial and national q968 (which is on sale on prott 😁😁) very noticeable? To me the difference between long 5 commercial and W968 was noticeable (W968 was really long 5 on steroid, slightly better backhand and more stable) but the transition was seam-less, and needed no adaptation time at all.

I haven't tried the Freitas ALC yet, but I am very curious to try it with its' limba outer.
I think I will try the new Darko Jorgic Infinity when it comes out, and hope in the miracle that it will give me the perfect solution for forehand and backhand .
All of this in preparation of my turn with Sergio of SDC (in one year or two I imagine), so that I know what I want and can order 2-3 perfect blades

Can't say for all the blades but mine do feel different. The regular HL5 feels like it bends but doesn't deliver all the stored power back when it snaps back, whereas the W968 does. The Q968 has the similar feel, but doesn't bend quite as easily. That's both good and bad. Good in that with lower powered shots where the blade is not fully activated it still produces a quality ball, but bad in that you don't get quite the catapult effect you would with the W968, and it's a bit harder to reach the catapult activation point.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

I bought this item,
inspired by a recommendation from Iba Diaw on one of his vlog. I was looking for the original item, but it was much more expensive, and i found this on Amazon Japan

Amazon.co.jp

at a much more reasonable price.

I can recommend it - and i am not affiliated.

 

[jk1980]

the longpips robot/spinsight analysis really made it click for me against long pips.
i played doubles today with one of the opponents just having short pips on the backhand and the other having long pips. My team mate already complained about the pips and how they are odd to play against and then the short pips player said "yes, the shots float and wobble in the air and are unpredictable" which to be honest would have been my estimate as well. Very often when i played a long backspin serve onto the longpips of a defender who would "attack" by doing the push counter creating a topspin ball that would fly at me i would be kind of clueless about how to handle it. The ball always felt like having an odd straight (non curvy) trajectory and empty spin that i would not know how to loop properly.
This training match though it immediately made click. I reconigzed the technique, new what to expect in terms of how the ball would fly of the opponents long pips bat and had a 85% success rate basically looping each of these balls. All of a sudden it did not feel odd, empty or unpredicatble. I treated it like i was playing against a beginner trying to loop, that is an incoming ball with medium speed and low topspin on it. Similar to a spinny flick probably.
I was confident counter looping them all. I hope that learning sticks to the back of my mind and keeps me prepared for when i play long pips next.
I don't want to confuse my memory with too much new information, but i think in a month or two i will do a similar test with an antispin test and see what strokes to result in which trajectories and spin.

On another note i was really happy that i have removed the Stiga DragonGrip (55) from my bat. It was just not my cup of tea, even though i felt it would be close enough to Rakza Z EH at the very beginning, the gears are slightly off and overshooting was way too easy because of the more tensorish characteristics. I put a Rxton 7 (40) on that blade and it was quite a lot more controlled obviously. This one should last me through the league break, so that i don't waste my regular RZEH rubbers in this off season period. I will probably also do a session comparing the Battle 2 Gold Prov with the Rxton 7 but i think i already know what the outcome in terms of spin will be.

 

[Der_Echte]

So I played matches with my new setup today. A couple of struggles but I think a couple of things are clear. Against opponents of similar strength, i gain more from Zyre in the open rally if I can get off the table and less if I try to hold the the table. Therefore I have to work on chopping serves as well as looping them and getting back and doing returnos that invite attacks to predictable spots.

My current setup also improves my dominance on the backhand diagonal as the punching and counterinf with Zyre from a yard off the table is both stable and effective. I can also redirect with confidence.

The challenge is stilll finding and playing the forehand. I need to a lot of drills and practice matches where I swing at balls I usually do not swing at and aim for places I don't consistently aim for. I am also realizing that in thoae rallies Zyre can be sneaky and I should stop trying to compensate for the blades lack of power and just let Zyre do the hard work and rhe opponent misread the spin.

Fitness is paramount and heading in the right direction. But now I need to drill more countering and better transitions between forehand and backhand and more in and out footworl as well. So forehand footwork, in and out footwork,.and transition from.backhand to forehand. I am not winning more matches but my possibilities for winning poonts are expanding in ways that I can see a path to the next level. And diet and weight loss are clearly a core part of it.

And weapon i have significantly improved is after a backspin serve, if my opponent pushes and I don't want to attack, I have developed this half long / short push which invites the patient attacker to attack but isn't entirely easy if you don't have the right stroke. This has helped me quite a bit and I suspect it is something I should practice a bit more.

@NL, your states issues on FH... it really isn't your setup. It is directly related to your stance and leverage before and after a shot, period. Also about spacing and rhythm relative to the ball that I would rate that you already have a great understanding... one day soon, I visit on the weekend of a tourney and prolly discover you have grown forward more than me as a player even though you coach.

 

[dingyibvs]

I recently got a LJK ADC inner R-code. I know what you're thinking, yes, the name really is necessarily that long. There's ADC (aramid) and ALC variants, inner and outer fiber variants, and within the ADC inner variant there's further the regular, R-code, S-code, and 001 variants. Being essentially the same construction as my Q968 (aramid carbon, inner), and having a similar frequency of ~1350Hz, I expected it to play similarly to my Q968. It was nothing like it. The LJK blade played much more like an outer carbon blade, and despite having a similar weight (92.5 vs 90) and a similar head size (159x150, the Q is 161 but I shaved it down a bit), it feels much more solid, like a carbon hammer, whereas my Q feels much more woody.

I glued my old rubbers from my Q968 onto the LJK blade and played with it today. It actually played really well, there wasn't too much adjustment needed despite the vastly different feel. Being more like an outer blade, it did have the advantage of much more crisp BH, but also the disadvantage of being harder to counterloop with. That's at least for my skill level. I think it actually really suits my old, many times reboosted H3. Maybe some time later I'll try a softer H3, maybe 39 or 38 degrees on the FH side to see how it does. With how quick and crisp it is, I wonder if a H3 37 or 38 on the BH side would work too.

My only other new H3 BS is from the same order as my bad one, so I decided to glue on a H3 OS 40 degrees on my primary blade the Q968. I actually don't feel much of a difference. I guess I'm not good enough to really differentiate between BS and OS H3's.

As for my play, my new BH is starting to show. Guess that makes sense, it's been 2 weeks and usually that's about how long for my BH adjustments to start showing in games. I was able to hit some vicious BHs, and open up with far above average consistency as well as quality. But alas, my opponent today was very good, and has been getting consistent coaching for a few years now so he's managed to stay a step above me. I simply can't kill him with my BH. I need more consistency and better placement to beat him. My defense has gotten a lot better as well, but his offense has as well, and I just can't block him down. Again, I need better consistency and placement in order to get him off his rhythm and turn defense into offense.

 

[jk1980]

After removing the dragongrip from my blade and replacing it with the Rxton 7 '40 i was quite Ok with it on sunday's session, but today after 1 hour sacrificing myself training somebody i was somehow not able to switch it up to competition mode to be in the stance and have the momentum to active it on all shots. Lazy ass shots were not possible due to the lower throw and probably it not being broken in yet. Even switching to a similarily not much played Battle 2 Gold '40 felt easier because of the higher throw.

I don't want to discard this setup yet, so i will give it another two sessions, but i already thought i might as well bridge the match free time with a regular Rakza Z which would be easy mode in terms of activation and lazy playability.

 

[jk1980]

After two more sessions with the Rxton 7 '40 i am kinda done with it. Playing it in solo matches is fine enough, even though the throw is a little too low for me and the different throwing angles for looping against backspin, block and topspin are unintuitive for me. I beat a marginally better player with the Rxton 7 on wednesday 3-1, but that was more down to my tactics and not the rubber or equipment really.

Especially in doubles if my partner serves backspin and then does not move away from the table i just dont have enough room to get inbetween the table and my partner retreating to attack the ball properly. It feels like the gears from 0-50% acceleration are simply gonna drop into the net, while i know i could probably do 20% shots with Rakza Z EH and still get the ball over the net.

It says much if i can loop with higher consistency with a Battle 2 Gold Prov '40 even though that is thought to have a low throw as well, right ?



So currently i am considering what to do with the weeks left in the summer pause. Put on a regular Rakza Z and call it a day regarding EJing or wait for the Hurricane 3 Neo Orange Spone '39 to arrive (is that gonna have a higher throw than Rxton 7 with both being unboosted?), boosting a Rxton 9 40,5° and putting it on there ? One idea was to put the H3N OS on the Acoustic but cut it overlapping, so that i can remove and boost it later if really needed (even though i really don't want the hassle of boosting, because i fear of then needing to reboost it every few weeks).

 

[dingyibvs]

I had another coaching session on Tues, will have one more on Sat. I've made a ton of progress on the things I've been working on. On the BH side I'm doing much better with relaxing before the shot as well as progressively accelerating during my stroke instead of just going from 0-100 in a flash. I'm also getting better at keeping my wrist bent back during the back swing, but after watching my coaching videos I see that I still need to bend it back even more.

On the FH side I'm working on something similar, also keeping my wrist bend back/flared out during backswing and the first portion of the forward swing. That's also gotten a lot better. I need to keep working on that and fine tune my body movement. I noticed that I rotate my hip through the ball whereas pros mostly stop the hip rotation at contact. That makes sense as you're transferring the power to your racket at that point, rotating the hip through the ball would be inefficient and slows down recovery.

After the coaching session I played against a ~1900 player and managed to beat him! Interestingly enough, I think my recent BH improvements really helped there and I actually had an advantage on that side. He uses a custom blade, fitting Viscaria on the BH side of his Q968. I didn't get a chance to try his blade, but it's got me interested in trying out an asymmetrical blade. I'll probably still keep the Q968 as my main though. Having used it for basically 3 months in a row now I've really developed pretty solid and predictable touch. So I guess I'll just have to EJ on the side now lol.

 

[dingyibvs]

I had my 2nd coaching session of the week on Sat, and once again, I feel like I learned a ton. With this coach, who's an older guy, he has a different approach. With my other coach, he would ask me what I want to work with, then we'd do that stroke and he'd point out every time something is off. With this coach, he decides what I need to work on, and he comes up with a plan to fix things step by step. Seeing as how I'm an adult learner, he wants to fix everything, from the very basics. And with basics so we began.

First step, the FH drive. It's the most basic FH shot, something that pros do flawlessly for about 10 seconds before moving onto looping. But we've all seen it done on the amateur level, it's either all over the place or at least one person is actually doing quick loops instead of drives. We spent about 80 minutes working on that, and by the end we had a rally that lasted 2 minutes and 37 seconds! I don't think I've ever done it for longer than maybe 30 seconds before. We worked on every detail of the stroke, movement around axis for every joint, and in which order. In the end there was just one thing that I didn't quite get, which is the upper arm movement. He wanted to use it a bit more, and after rewatching the recording I think I see it. That'll be something I'll work on until the next session.

On the BH side, he was pleased to see that I've made good progress in incorporating his teachings from the previous session. He wanted to add one more wrinkle, which is leaning in a bit with the right shoulder. This in effect moves the elbow a bit more forward. I've mentioned the utility of this before, but never got around to practicing it too much as there were other things to fix. I guess it's time to incorporate this wrinkle to my technique now. I don't feel like I'm solid enough with my other changes yet, like bending the wrist back more, relaxing the shoulder, etc., so I need to be cognizant of doing those things correctly while I add the new shoulder/elbow movement.

I'll say though, by putting the emphasis on the shoulder, it gives me a new understanding of the stroke. I think it adds a good bit of power by stretching the upper back muscles, which you have to do to bring your shoulder inward. This way, at the beginning of the motion where you move your elbow to meet the ball and before you fix the elbow to swing your forearm you really engage the upper back muscles as they contract back. This not only allows you to add those muscles to your power generation, it also aligns well with the direction of hip/body movement so it really allows you to sync up the power from the body as well.

A lot more stuff to work on the next few weeks, pretty exciting!

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

I had my 2nd coaching session of the week on Sat, and once again, I feel like I learned a ton. With this coach, who's an older guy, he has a different approach. With my other coach, he would ask me what I want to work with, then we'd do that stroke and he'd point out every time something is off. With this coach, he decides what I need to work on, and he comes up with a plan to fix things step by step. Seeing as how I'm an adult learner, he wants to fix everything, from the very basics. And with basics so we began.

First step, the FH drive. It's the most basic FH shot, something that pros do flawlessly for about 10 seconds before moving onto looping. But we've all seen it done on the amateur level, it's either all over the place or at least one person is actually doing quick loops instead of drives. We spent about 80 minutes working on that, and by the end we had a rally that lasted 2 minutes and 37 seconds! I don't think I've ever done it for longer than maybe 30 seconds before. We worked on every detail of the stroke, movement around axis for every joint, and in which order. In the end there was just one thing that I didn't quite get, which is the upper arm movement. He wanted to use it a bit more, and after rewatching the recording I think I see it. That'll be something I'll work on until the next session.

On the BH side, he was pleased to see that I've made good progress in incorporating his teachings from the previous session. He wanted to add one more wrinkle, which is leaning in a bit with the right shoulder. This in effect moves the elbow a bit more forward. I've mentioned the utility of this before, but never got around to practicing it too much as there were other things to fix. I guess it's time to incorporate this wrinkle to my technique now. I don't feel like I'm solid enough with my other changes yet, like bending the wrist back more, relaxing the shoulder, etc., so I need to be cognizant of doing those things correctly while I add the new shoulder/elbow movement.

I'll say though, by putting the emphasis on the shoulder, it gives me a new understanding of the stroke. I think it adds a good bit of power by stretching the upper back muscles, which you have to do to bring your shoulder inward. This way, at the beginning of the motion where you move your elbow to meet the ball and before you fix the elbow to swing your forearm you really engage the upper back muscles as they contract back. This not only allows you to add those muscles to your power generation, it also aligns well with the direction of hip/body movement so it really allows you to sync up the power from the body as well.

A lot more stuff to work on the next few weeks, pretty exciting!

Nice

 

[Tyce]

I feel like I'm starting to put things together on a new level after screwing around with gear for the past two years and a bit.
It's always a bit of a double sided realization that I'm once again circling back to basics, but that's what seems to be the theme in TT. The basics here mostly being about hitting the ball in the right place, and with enough acceleration to produce a quality shot. For me it's about relaxing, and I realize my timing is not bad for starting the movement, but I take the ball too late when I don't put enough acceleration in the motion. When I use the same rhythm and audio cues, but make a better whip (for lack of a better word) I reach the ball around peak and it's clear to feel that I'm engaging the rubber much better.

 

[Der_Echte]

Hi @dingyibvs ,

Yes, setting leverage on BH is important.

Allow ball to come closer to you. create more space by bowing forward on hips while sitting down a little bit. Ensure elbow is in front and so much to the side for the kind of shot you trying.

I am not so much an advocate of turning the shoulder for the BH at the table. There isn't so much time for any body twisting or shoulder twisting that close to table fast rallies. Away from the table, some hip and shoulder turn is good.

The one BH shot at the table I would advocate for some shoulder turn, or at least position the right shoulder forward, is to really get that elbow out in front more for leverage is the BH FLIP. You do not need to turn it so much as really the step under table with right foot kinda deep under table sets that shoulder front leverage which gives you elbow leverage... you get back to base leverage with your step out on recovery of stroke, so in the end, that front shoulder is not killing you on the next shot.

If your base BH leverage at the table has only small amount of shoulder lean, that will not kill you, because you will not go excessive past base squaring of shoulder/body core on your swing... and with your swing you get to base and recovering is not an issue.

Close to table exchanges happen so fast there is zero time for excessive body movement or finishing off square on the shot - recovery is impossible there.

Whatever you are doing (as I only hear a description and not seen it yet with you) seems to be intuitive and not excessive enough to cause you issues recovering to ready.

I would want to run into you soon, but Freemont TTA now has finally had the new coaches Shashin coordinated arrived and I am not so much needed there - he needs to put those coaches to work and I am happy being out of frequent work, gives me more time to sleep and heal myself.

Maybe I can occasionally cause trouble at Swan or somewhere by bringing friends and somehow run into you.
Either way, you ARE developing and it is amazing, especially compared to the rest of the TT com munity... you look at everyone around you and almost all of them are NOT increasing their knowledge or skills in TT, just playing matches and enjoying themselves. Nothing wrong there, if one does not enjoy TT, the most difficult sport around, than that person will not stay with TT very long, so it MUST be enjoyable/fulfilling.

 

[Der_Echte]

I wrote elsewhere that at the 2026 Meiklejohn Seniors tourney that a player named PETER showed me a bat in has bat case and before he could even touch that bat after opening the case I could see IMMEDIATELY that the size/shape of that handle was GOLDEN. So I bought a couple of that blade (Donic Original Carbl Speed) and upon a strong recommendation for the world's largest EJ, TTD member @erm , I bought a couple of the Donic Waldner Legend Carbon.

My endless TT EJ friend George snatched one of those Waldner Legend Carons from me sight unseen.

So I now had had enough session with both (used my rubber combo in sig - Aurus/Aurus Soft or Sound)...

The Carbo Speed is more crisp and ball comes off the blade sooner... and has overall faster base speed than my beloved Persson Power Play. More difficult to make my slow, heavy spin openers vs underspin, but if I kept wrist loose enough, I could do it with enough percentage. Counter vs incoming pace or spin was super, so a little more destructive than PPP. Spin on counters was there... but I lost some feel, even if enough of my shots landed to overall make this blade work.

The Waldner Legend Caron operated like something between the all wood PPP and the Carbo Speed. Less carbon feel (good), less of the quick rebound (good), easier to make my heavy spin (good) better overall feel than the Carbo Speed (good) still faster than PPP (still good or OK, I can handle an OFF blade) counters at the table more rocket pace (good only if I time it right)

Overall, I could use the Waldner Legend Carbon and play my level today... that is a tall order for a new blade... that stuff usually takes months to adapt to well enough. That says a lot.

I will for the foreseeable future, operate with the Waldner blade and/or the PPP. I can do the same overall with either given the same Aurus/Aurus Soft (or Sound) combo on the blades.