Defensive inverted rubber

[neon]

Hello can you compare tibhar super defense 40 with spinlord marder. Is marder like euro/jap rubbers or like old china rubbers? Thanks

 

[belllfador]

I never use tibhar super defence, only marder 2.

All spinlord marder variants have the same topsheet - semitacky, thin top, elastic, with very long pips. Sponge variants are more close to classic Japan or esn hybrids (marder IV). I used marder 2 1.5mm, very similar to mark V, almost the same sponge. Probably a bit slower than mark V, but with better spin and control. Spin generation on service is mediocre, and service receive is good for inverted rubber. Loops can be spiny and slow. The only danger for the opponent can be a well-executed chop.

Another rubber in the same category is secret flow chop. In my hand, 1.5mm was springy, mushy and inconsistent. Probably was old stock...

Now I have donic slice 40 CS for testing.

 

[piligrim]

I never use tibhar super defence, only marder 2.

All spinlord marder variants have the same topsheet - semitacky, thin top, elastic, with very long pips. Sponge variants are more close to classic Japan or esn hybrids (marder IV). I used marder 2 1.5mm, very similar to mark V, almost the same sponge. Probably a bit slower than mark V, but with better spin and control. Spin generation on service is mediocre, and service receive is good for inverted rubber. Loops can be spiny and slow. The only danger for the opponent can be a well-executed chop.

Another rubber in the same category is secret flow chop. In my hand, 1.5mm was springy, mushy and inconsistent. Probably was old stock...

Now I have donic slice 40 CS for testing.

Did you try Super FX on thin sponge?

 

[belllfador]

Did you try Super FX on thin sponge?

Not yet. I have one red sheet 1.5mm with a redish plastic sponge that feels soft and dead. I don't know if it is the original product, a variation or a fake. The top is soft and thick, with shorter possible pips. Stickiness is not high, at the same level as new H3. The durometer shows from 32 to 37 degrees on esn scale, but that value will be lower if the sponge thickness is higher.

 

[piligrim]

Not yet. I have one red sheet 1.5mm with a redish plastic sponge that feels soft and dead. I don't know if it is the original product, a variation or a fake. The top is soft and thick, with shorter possible pips. Stickiness is not high, at the same level as new H3. The durometer shows from 32 to 37 degrees on esn scale, but that value will be lower if the sponge thickness is higher.

I don't think someone will fake $10 rubber

 

[neon]

Hi. I'm trying to play with a defensive inverted rubber on the backhand, 1.3 mm Donic slice 40 cs. Does it make sense? Or should I put long pips on the backhand. thanks.
P.S. Sponge of donic slice 40 is "new" like akuda and all new rubbers. But sponge of secret flow chop is old ... like sriver and many more old rubbers, very slow and without any chemical compaunds (glue stay dry ... like ... no glue )

 

[belllfador]

In general, BH pips are preferable choice from best defenders. But pips can be challenging to learn if you are coming from inverted rubbers. Let say if you have weak BH, struggling with service return, or just like a frustrated face expression of your opponent - try long pips ox. Consider also, short pips like spectrol s1 1.6mm, something more close to inverted.

 

[Tyce]

Did you try Super FX on thin sponge?

Funny you mention this, I have a new sheet of orange sponge 1.5 waiting for test next week on a Diode V.
I've played it for fun after mistakenly ordering the wrong thickness in the past and it was quite fun once you manage to break the sponge in. This time I put a layer of booster on to accelerate the process.

On the FH I have 1.8 with the blue sponge.

 

[belllfador]

Apparently, my super fx 1.5mm variant was "large pores soft". My impressions after one hour on carbon ultra def, BH use:
-almost non-sticky — hold the ball for 1s;
-very slow on low and medium hits, moderate fast gear was unlocked on high force hits;
- very good chop near the table, away is so-so.
-very low throw angle;
-service spin was not so high;
-Slow loops are possible, but I lack consistency with that rubber;
-block was accurate and slow;
- wins recommendation for first/cheap def inverted rubber.

Donic slice cs 1.5mm on Gladiator, BH:
-extreme control for short spiny services;
-very good spin and low throw for pushes and chops near the table;
-the speed was similar to marder 2, more alive than super fx.
-blocks was with high throw and the only weak point.

 

[andymagata]

The variant I happened to end up with is named 729 Friendship Super FX with Large Pores Soft Sponge from Hi-Sport store on ali. 1 mm thick blue sponge.

It came without Friendship paper packaging, just the plastic sleeve.

Using it on my bh. All strokes where I lightly brush are very spinny, like serve and strawberry. Chops also good. Coming trainings I will focus on flat punches and find out how thin sponge behaves with my technique.

 

[belllfador]

The variant I happened to end up with is named 729 Friendship Super FX with Large Pores Soft Sponge from Hi-Sport store on ali. 1 mm thick blue sponge.

It came without Friendship paper packaging, just the plastic sleeve.

Using it on my bh. All strokes where I lightly brush are very spinny, like serve and strawberry. Chops also good. Coming trainings I will focus on flat punches and find out how thin sponge behaves with my technique.

Did you observe two gear behavier - very slow on low impact and faster on hard hit? My guess is the faster gear appears when the sponge is bottoming out and thicker topsheet makes the difference in speed even bigger.

My FX super soft is with red sponge and feel like is made from plastic. I boost it with 1 layer falco platinum and the dome becomes permanent (3 months is the same). Like the booster never goes in or affects the topsheet. The spin and speed remained relatively the same. So, it is probably not a good idea to boost that rubber.

I played more with Donic Slice 40 CS - very very spiny rubber. Service, chop and push are dream. On brushing spin is on pair with H3 and B3. The weight is on the light side for 1.5mm 46 deg rubber - 40 grams cut to 153x154mm. Unfortunately, the sponge is brittle and suffers after glue removal even with DHS 15 glue. This rubber is prone to significant shrinkage, so, cut all ESNs 1-2mm bigger and be happy when reglue. I boosted it to fix the shrinkage and the booster brought some dynamics, but nothing drastic.

 

[andymagata]

Your description of Donic Slice 40 CS sounds exactly like Pimplepark Epos! I tore mine to pieces when removing it for the second time to put on another blade, very fragile yellow sponge.

 

[ajtatosmano2]

Satoshi Aida is a double inverted chopper and he is using Rakza Z. I only used it in 2.3, but in 2.0 thickness it might be better for chopping.
And of course Tackiness C is very uncomfortable to play against.

 

[piligrim]

Satoshi Aida is a double inverted chopper and he is using Rakza Z. I only used it in 2.3, but in 2.0 thickness it might be better for chopping.
And of course Tackiness C is very uncomfortable to play against.

You must be in Satochi Aida level to be chopper with Rakza Z. I don't think amateur players can do this

 

[belllfador]

You must be in Satochi Aida level to be chopper with Rakza Z. I don't think amateur players can do this

Don't kill the fun. If amateur can chop with H3, Rakza Z is a option.

 

[andymagata]

What is your purpose of playing defensive inverted rubber?

I guess, for me, it is control. I immediately felt a security in my bh shots when putting the 1 mm Super FX on. Serve, drive, flicks felt easier and still spinny.

I will explore what happens when I start to punch. Bottom out the rubber, and let the wood handle the speed.

 

[belllfador]

Inverted are more versatile. I can generate dangerous spin in chops and push, looping is easy, flicks are fast. Pips are always lacking in spin and speed, but exceed in immunity to incoming spin and create some nasty returns. It is a trade off. I am still stronger with inverted on both sides, but Ilius B is elevating my pips level to let say 80% with good progression speed. Considering that I am playing against experienced loopers and they are adjusted to my pips mid set.

Nowadays, it is difficult to be defender. My chops are gifts for opponents with heavily boosted H3. If you are using inverted rubbers on both sides, be more versatile in attack and don't relay too much on chops.

 

[piligrim]

Don't kill the fun. If amateur can chop with H3, Rakza Z is a option.

you can chop with H3 on BH against loops?

 

[belllfador]

you can chop with H3 on BH against loops?

Yes I can. And I realy like H3 in this role. Of course, I am away from Satoshi Aida, but I can win some points. I don't know, some of my opponents occasionally do chops with significantly faster setups.