Equipment & tips for new chopper

[greenbeanmachine]

Hi everyone! I've recently decided to play as a long pips chopper and would love it if some knowledgeable choppers could recommend some equipment and give some playing tips.

I made the decision to play long pips because my university team recently lost to an all-chopper team in a tournament. I realized that none of them had much experience playing against long pips players, so as the team captain I feel it is my duty to help them learn. Also I have been wanting to try this style for a while.

I have experience playing short pips penhold (I even tried long pips penhold briefly), but chopping seems to be very different from FH pips penhold.

For equipment:
I would like to get the most controllable setup possible. I'm not trying to increase my rating with this style, I just want to get my teammates accustomed to dealing with long pips.

I made a chopper setup with some equipment I had lying around, but I think this is not optimal and I'm having trouble controlling the ball with my pips side. I have Xiom Allround-S, with H3 on one side and Dawei 388D-1 0.5mm sponge on the other side. The 388D-1 was from when I tried it on forehand as a penholder, and I think this rubber might be optimized for the LP penhold style -- chop blocks, punches, weird spins, etc. I am finding it somewhat unstable for chopping.

Is there a better rubber for chopping? I am looking at Feint Long II or Feint Long III (what's the difference?) or Tibhar Grass D-tecs. Should I increase sponge thickness? What's a good sponge thickness?

Also, what's a good blade for chopping? I am considering Diode but don't really know what qualities to look for and I mostly just want to be able to control the ball.



For playing style:
Can anyone recommend any resources for learning to play as a chopper? Or give any tips for how to think about technique?

After 3 training sessions, I am noticing my elbow is starting to hurt. This seems kind of strange to me, because I feel like my chops have been much softer strokes than my usual offensive backhand. Has anyone else noticed this when they switched to long pips? And how to remedy it?

 

[pong99]

When you say chopper do you mean modern defender, or close to the table LP push blocker?

I have a goof around chopper setup:

Nittaku Endless DEF blade $40
388 D1 0.6 can chop from distance just fine and push block close to the table. Don't attack the ball with LP, you must caress the ball and feel the pips grab the ball and spit it out.

WRM table tennis channel on youtube has many videos on LP play

 

[Ultravisitor]

Donic defplay senso v3
Feint Long 2 is easy to play
Feint Long 3 is very slow, better against strong loops.

If this is just for training, stick with 388d-1 or yinhe neptune or 955. It's not really worth to spend more money.

 

[piligrim]

When you say chopper do you mean modern defender, or close to the table LP push blocker?

Choper and push blocker it's totally different things

 

[Julzig]

Ouh interesting, was looking for a def blade with pips recently aswell.
I've read Yinhe 980 is supposed to be nice and was having my eye on that one.

In my experience the Xiom Allround S is alright for chopping when being a few steps back. It's faster and has a smaller head than def blades on the other hand. Good for occasional attacks. For pure practice not perfect indeed.

 

[belllfador]

The Yinhe 980 is cheap but a very good blade. Depending on the weight variation, speed can reach off-. My own is 83g, 1210Hz, filing relatively stiff all+. Block and push are stable, loop is good, but chop with inverted rubbers is so-so. The soft limba top layer is a bonus for control over the table, but will reduce spin reversal with OX pips. The 980 is more allround blade, imo.

 

[piligrim]

I have 980. Its very bad for chopping

 

[tzifos]

I have 980. Its very bad for chopping

I also have 2 of them, excellent blade for a starter chopper. Cheap too and excellent in chopping (using P1r). On the other hand I hate the much-respected Donic defplay senso v3 that many recommend, too bouncy for chopping so it is not very consistent far from table.

But I would suggest a Neottec Kanji Def to start with, that is a very good "copy" of the JOOLA Chen Weixing in a very nice price, often on "sale -25%" from TT1. It is on the "fast - side" of the chopper-blades so I recommend to use a slower pip like FeintLong 3 and Curl P4 than faster pips (like FeintLong 2, Curl p1, Grass DTecs).

 

[piligrim]

I also have 2 of them, excellent blade for a starter chopper. Cheap too and excellent in chopping (using P1r). On the other hand I hate the much-respected Donic defplay senso v3 that many recommend, too bouncy for chopping so it is not very consistent far from table.

But I would suggest a Neottec Kanji Def to start with, that is a very good "copy" of the JOOLA Chen Weixing in a very nice price, often on "sale -25%" from TT1. It is on the "fast - side" of the chopper-blades so I recommend to use a slower pip like FeintLong 3 and Curl P4 than faster pips (like FeintLong 2, Curl p1, Grass DTecs).

Totally agree about Defpay
With 980 I had feeling it has very little dwell. Ball left my racket too fast. It also pretty bouncy

 

[Amaken23]

I started my journey with chopping (just for fun, although I am getting better at it) with the following :
Loki Kirin K2 (5 ply all-wood) for about ~8 USD on Aliexpress
Yinhe Neptune 0.7 mm LP ~about 9 USD on Aliexpress
Yinhe Mercury 2 Mid-Hard ~ about 7 USD on Aliexpress
Pretty controllable, good and really cheap setup to learn basics with
After a bit of practice, I now use :
Blade : 729 Friendship Yellow ALC (about 15 USD on Ali)
LP : Yinhe Neptune 0.7 mm
Inverted : Double Fish Volant Phoenix 39 degrees. (about 11 dollars)
As for any tips : As strange as it may sound...practice chopping with inverted rubber first, even with very, VERY slow topspins....it helps A LOT when transitioning to LP chopping. Keep your wrist relaxed when chopping to have better feeling and to dampen the speed of the topspin a little more. And if you wish to help your teammates practice, focus on giving them slightly higher chops at first so they can get most out of the rally.

 

[greenbeanmachine]

Wow, thanks for the feedback everyone!

When you say chopper do you mean modern defender, or close to the table LP push blocker?

Choper and push blocker it's totally different things

The team we played against had both, and the players did a bit of both. Their best player was a chopper though, mostly just chopping from far back until we lose the point. I'm curious though, what is the difference in terms of equipment? Do choppers go for thicker sponge? Is there a setup which has a good balance of chopping and push-blocking?

I have a goof around chopper setup:

Nittaku Endless DEF blade $40
388 D1 0.6 can chop from distance just fine and push block close to the table. Don't attack the ball with LP, you must caress the ball and feel the pips grab the ball and spit it out.

WRM table tennis channel on youtube has many videos on LP play

Oh, thanks for the suggestion!

Donic defplay senso v3
Feint Long 2 is easy to play
Feint Long 3 is very slow, better against strong loops.

If this is just for training, stick with 388d-1 or yinhe neptune or 955. It's not really worth to spend more money.

Ah okay, I just got a Donic Defplay Senso with Dr Evil both sides as a hardbat for one of my teammates. I'll give it a try.

Luckily my university team has a budget so we can just bill this as "training equipment"

I did really like 388D-1 as a penholder, worked well for attacking backspin.

In my experience the Xiom Allround S is alright for chopping when being a few steps back. It's faster and has a smaller head than def blades on the other hand. Good for occasional attacks. For pure practice not perfect indeed.

Yeah the Allround S actually quite fast. I found some of my flicks and loops were going outside the table, even with the Hurricane 3 side. The chopping setup I tried from some coach felt way more stable, I think it was a blade from a brand called "Hunter"

The Yinhe 980 is cheap but a very good blade. Depending on the weight variation, speed can reach off-. My own is 83g, 1210Hz, filing relatively stiff all+. Block and push are stable, loop is good, but chop with inverted rubbers is so-so. The soft limba top layer is a bonus for control over the table, but will reduce spin reversal with OX pips. The 980 is more allround blade, imo.

I'm having some difficulty adjusting to soft wood. Usually I use Rosewood or YEO even when playing with pips.

I started my journey with chopping (just for fun, although I am getting better at it) with the following :
Loki Kirin K2 (5 ply all-wood) for about ~8 USD on Aliexpress
Yinhe Neptune 0.7 mm LP ~about 9 USD on Aliexpress
Yinhe Mercury 2 Mid-Hard ~ about 7 USD on Aliexpress
Pretty controllable, good and really cheap setup to learn basics with

Purchased!

As for any tips : As strange as it may sound...practice chopping with inverted rubber first, even with very, VERY slow topspins....it helps A LOT when transitioning to LP chopping. Keep your wrist relaxed when chopping to have better feeling and to dampen the speed of the topspin a little more. And if you wish to help your teammates practice, focus on giving them slightly higher chops at first so they can get most out of the rally.

Good to know, thanks!

 

[piligrim]

The team we played against had both, and the players did a bit of both. Their best player was a chopper though, mostly just chopping from far back until we lose the point. I'm curious though, what is the difference in terms of equipment? Do choppers go for thicker sponge? Is there a setup which has a good balance of chopping and push-blocking?

There is blades made for blocking game and blades made for chopping. Same with pips. There is pips made for blocking game and for chopping. People who play blocking close to table always use OX while most choppers use pips with sponge.

 

[Scarfed Garchomp]

Best blade I ever used for two sided chopping with sponge pips hands down, is the Victas Koji Matsushita. Expensive but worth it.

My favorite defensive style blade is actually the Yinhe 980XX though, but my style is more like Li Jian who doesn't chop (much) on forehand. 980XX is pretty cheap from Tabletennisonly, it is harder and snappier than the VKM, better for forehand loop but VKM is much better for twoside chop.

 

[W3R]

Hey all! I've started a club for playing and practicing in my small town and there is a girl that chops decently - I would like to turn her as a real "modern" defender (chopping on BH) . So what cheap equipment should I propose if she is into it? I'm not a defeder and have no idea what lp or sp to propose for chopps away from the table. ANy recommendations from people that have experience would be appreciated. Thanks!

 

[Amaken23]

Hey all! I've started a club for playing and practicing in my small town and there is a girl that chops decently - I would like to turn her as a real "modern" defender (chopping on BH) . So what cheap equipment should I propose if she is into it? I'm not a defeder and have no idea what lp or sp to propose for chopps away from the table. ANy recommendations from people that have experience would be appreciated. Thanks!

I started my journey with chopping (just for fun, although I am getting better at it) with the following :
Loki Kirin K2 (5 ply all-wood) for about ~8 USD on Aliexpress
Yinhe Neptune 0.7 mm LP ~about 9 USD on Aliexpress
Yinhe Mercury 2 Mid-Hard ~ about 7 USD on Aliexpress
Pretty controllable, good and really cheap setup to learn basics with

 

[PenHoldSandro]

Woah there @greenbeanmachine, didn't know you became a chopper too! Well, from what I've seen for beginner choppers, your backhand rubber would be very good to go, maybe get the long pips in 1mm and above in the near future if you're willing to persure and upgrade. As for forehand, maybe Rxton 5 would work (like you said), or Jupiter 3 for its control and slow spinny loops. I don't know much about blades, but maybe get the Victas Koji sometime?

If I'm correct, Feint III is a faster version of II, so I guess get II first. Grass is known much more for its OX version and deception, so if you wanna chop it's best to keep with either Dawei or Feint.

If you wanna improve your chops, you must be much more relaxed than with topspin and let gravity do most of the moving, adding body for force and microadjustments on the arm and wrist (from what I've tried, take this as a grain of salt).

Also, how does your elbow hurt? Maybe you're flicking it too much and overstretching it.

 

[piligrim]

If I'm correct, Feint III is a faster version of II, so I guess get II first. Grass is known much more for its OX version and deception, so if you wanna chop it's best to keep with either Dawei or Feint.

No, you are wrong. Feint 3 not faster version of 2. 3 much slower than 2 and softer

 

[PenHoldSandro]

No, you are wrong. Feint 3 not faster version of 2. 3 much slower than 2 and softer

Oh, I apologize. I must've mixed some stuff up... @greenbeanmachine get Feint 3 first.

Say, @piligrim, how do they differ in play though?

 

[piligrim]

Oh, I apologize. I must've mixed some stuff up... @greenbeanmachine get Feint 3 first.

Say, @piligrim, how do they differ in play though?

I never had FL2 so can't compare

 

[greenbeanmachine]

Best blade I ever used for two sided chopping with sponge pips hands down, is the Victas Koji Matsushita. Expensive but worth it.

Do you mean the defensive or offensive or special or ZC version? The offensive version looks a lot like a YEO with a bigger head, I'm curious to try it but worried it might be too hard to control with chopping.

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