FH issue: i dun wanna smash no moar, i wanna spin moar. help!

[Gozo Zyreruna]

1. sigh…. hate to come asking for help. Chatgpt has failed me this time.

2. My bh is now functional, as I have been concentrating on it for the past six months or so to the detriment of fh.

3. BH has now become a weapon unto itself and I am pleased with it.

4. What I am not pleased is my fh, it has regressed. When I drive = overshoot. If I were to Loop = slow & spinny = counter loop magnet.

5. My opponent said, Gozo, your loop is like a gift to me.

6. What should I do? How do I rebuild me fh to functional again. I wanna be no more HULK SMASH, I want more spin. Preferably like Timo Boll.

PS: I have not been using Z03 for some time already. Been using BTY Falcima ( five ply all wood ) with Donic Acuda S1 both side. So it is not equipment issue.

 

[Archosaurus]

I think it's not really possible to offer specific advice unless you post some video and specify what part you're talking about.

 

[Tom Lodziak]

I like to call this the 'curse of the flat hitter'. I come across it a lot in coaching sessions and it can be a challenge to fix.

The problem I see often...

- Some players have very strong flat hits. If these flat hit lands, they have a very good chance of winning a point outright, but it is inconsistent. Flat hitters have good days (everything seems to go on) and bad days (everything misses).
- To improve consistency, a flat hitter tries to change to a topspin technique, but starts off at a very controlled pace to try and get the technique right.
- In a match situation, a very controlled topspin is really not very effective and easily returned and counter attacked by an opponent.
- When the flat hitter realises his new controlled topspin is not winning points, he reverts back to flat hitting.

From my reading of your situation, you are stuck in the middle stage. You have committed to changing your flat hitting style (which is great), but your new topspin isn't proving effective.

So here's the truth. A FH topspin attack is only superior to a flat hit, if it is done with either plenty of speed or plenty of spin (and good placement). A 'nice' mid-paced topspin is largely ineffective as an attacking weapon. It will get the ball on the table, but it's not going to put your opponent under huge amounts of pressure.

So your long term goal will be to develop a faster FH topspin, something which is capable of winning a point outright (like your flat hit). This does take time. It could take a few months. it could take 2-3 years. It depends how much effort you put into developing the technique.

You are at the 'controlled topspin', stage of making the transition. It's a necessary step, as it's hard to go from zero to 100% straight away. When changing technique you have to start in a more controlled way and gradually build it up. This is the next stage for you. You have to start adding more speed / spin to the forehand topspin, whilst maintaining your shape and consistency. Aim to add 10% more speed, then if it's working, another 10%. You keep gradually increasing the speed / spin until you can consistently win points with the shot. Then you will have less desire to flat hit as your topspin attack will be able to win points outright and will be more consistent.

I'd be happy to help you with any technique challenge you have with your shot. Either post a video here of your current topspin technique or message me privately and we can discuss joining my online academy where I can give your more support.

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

Hi Sensei Tom,

I have been a subscriber to your YT channel for sometime and love your content. Very happy to
see you response directly to me here.

OK, I'll video my FH topspin at my next TT session and put it here for scrutiny.

 

[Tyce]

1. sigh…. hate to come asking for help. Chatgpt has failed me this time.

2. My bh is now functional, as I have been concentrating on it for the past six months or so to the detriment of fh.

3. BH has now become a weapon unto itself and I am pleased with it.

4. What I am not pleased is my fh, it has regressed. When I drive = overshoot. If I were to Loop = slow & spinny = counter loop magnet.

This is usually a matter of mistiming and tension, or hitting the ball full on the back.

For timing, you can try to challenge yourself to take the ball later yet hitting it in the same phase of flight. You're going to have to be faster and accelerate that shot to do so.
For me, it works to "try and find how much time I actually have". I consciously move my feet, then look at the ball, and only then prepare the swing which (in my head at least) takes significant time.
It can be hard to break out of the flat hit rhythm in games, takes some time and effort.

I'm assuming your slow and spinny ones are also higher than you like? That's lifting and hitting the back of the ball.
For hitting the ball more on top, that's usually up to putting trust in the grip of the rubber and letting go of the concept of needing to use the blade to propel the ball.

Both symptoms work in synergy, getting better whippy timing requires hitting the ball on the head and vice versa.

5. My opponent said, Gozo, your loop is like a gift to me.

6. What should I do? How do I rebuild me fh to functional again. I wanna be no more HULK SMASH, I want more spin. Preferably like Timo Boll.

Timo does use the slower spinny loop a lot, so you're good

PS: I have not been using Z03 for some time already. Been using BTY Falcima ( five ply all wood ) with Donic Acuda S1 both side. So it is not equipment issue.

 

[Lazer]

Transition will be a lot easier if you temporarily change your setup to a slower one.

Cheers
L-zr

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

Transition will be a lot easier if you temporarily change your setup to a slower one.

Cheers
L-zr

from seven ply I have downgraded to five ply.

From Zyre03, I have regressed to Acuda S1.

 

[Lazer]

from seven ply I have downgraded to five ply.

From Zyre03, I have regressed to Acuda S1.

Apparently thats not slow enough. You have been doing this for a while and still struggling… Go even slower and maybe softer. I dont know how hard Accuda S1 is but maybe its too hard. Then progress up
from there. If you have a lot of power in your FH it shouldn’t be a problem having a really slow setup on that side…

Cheers
L-zr

 

[Yuomay]

I struggle with similar issues as you do, even though my game is based on spin rather than power.

My coach suggested Desto F1/F2 to slow down the setup while maintaining high spin characteristics. Additional advantage is that it is lighter than fast arcs for example.

 

[chandyrandy]

Hard disagree with this, his equipment is slow enough. Gozo I think you should record and post just a general training session if you want to improve your form. There's only so much you can implement self aware. That's why although there's so many resources online having a good coach is the best way to improve anything.

Apparently thats not slow enough. You have been doing this for a while and still struggling… Go even slower and maybe softer. I dont know how hard Accuda S1 is but maybe its too hard. Then progress up
from there. If you have a lot of power in your FH it shouldn’t be a problem having a really slow setup on that side…

Cheers
L-zr

 

[Tyce]

It's hard to judge from here whether the equipment is slow enough. If you are able to get a tangible sensation of dwell, that should be enough to do the trick.
If you don't get that sensation while at the table, do some relaxed loop to loop further back until you do get that feeling. Then return to the table step by step and take the feeling with you.

Regarding the contact point I mentioned before:

When you contact the ball more on its top, you also have to take into account that the position of the ball itself is high enough. If you take the ball when it's below the table, you need to actively lift it in order to get it over the net. Ideally, you hit the ball just above net height or higher, so you don't need to lift at all.

 

[Bran]

- In a match situation, a very controlled topspin is really not very effective and easily returned and counter attacked by an opponent.

Most likely what Tom is describing. Looping is a spectrum, from the slow spinny (and potentially high) loop taken in the descending phase to the very aggressive loop drive taken earlier on, with minimal arc and a big hitting through component, where spin is a means to bring safety but isn't the main point.

It doesn't read like the problem is one of equipment, more of timing (when the ball is hit) and how much spin Vs speed/hitting is balanced in the stroke. If the ball is hit late, it's very hard to impart speed and to keep it low. At the very least, trying to land the ball deeper and better placed would make it harder to put away, but that may not be the first area of work. Timing and how the ball is hit during the loop would come first.

Timo Boll isn't the easiest example to follow, incidentally. He has a very peculiar technique where he brushes a lot.

 

[Archosaurus]

Ideally, you hit the ball just above net height or higher, so you don't need to lift at all.

I get what you mean, but I dunno if ideal is a thing for this.

I argue there's a lot of value to a slightly slower, very spinny loop hit from under the net or even table height that can change direction at the last moment and land just about anywhere.

A not so well-known guy called Ma Long seems to be a fan of that kind of shot.

 

[Tyce]

I get what you mean, but I dunno if ideal is a thing for this.

I argue there's a lot of value to a slightly slower, very spinny loop hit from under the net or even table height that can change direction at the last moment and land just about anywhere.

A not so well-known guy called Ma Long seems to be a fan of that kind of shot.

There is use for it, but Gozo says he can do the slow and spinny one and wants to make a faster spinny one. These are directions to try and learn that, and if after that he decides to do the same thing from table height, that's all up to him. But when you want to learn to hit the ball on its top, it's much easier to do from a little higher up.

 

[NextLevel]

If I had to guess, the equipment is part of the problem in the opposite direction. People like to blame fast equipment for issues when it is precisely fast equipment that makes offensive shots venomous and the issue is remaining consistent with it or controlling it. In fact, I suspect i would struggle to get someone to block the ball off the table with Acuda S1 on forehand. There is a reason why modern rubbers exist and Butterfly rubbers take most of the money and it isn't because Acuda S1 is the bomb.

Hard disagree with this, his equipment is slow enough. Gozo I think you should record and post just a general training session if you want to improve your form. There's only so much you can implement self aware. That's why although there's so many resources online having a good coach is the best way to improve anything.

 

[JustANoob]

from seven ply I have downgraded to five ply.

From Zyre03, I have regressed to Acuda S1.

 

[merlin el mago]

Knowing when to do a top spin or a smash is an art like serving & receiving.

Several tricks I use to smash & not top spin:
-My body very well placed.
-Ball higher than the net.
-Ball rising or when is top high never descending.

Several tricks I use to top spin & not smash:
-My body very well placed.
-Ball lower than the net.
-Ball top high (over the table) or when descending.

If you master both skills you become a better player.

About equipment always allwood blades have more feeling for topspin & have more dwell time, also Chinese rubbers are cheap & with more grip.

Changing a lot equipment isn't good for you because each change is like you start again to play table tennis or similar so you need time to adapt the new equipment.

Good lucky Gozo!

 

[Archosaurus]

If I had to guess, the equipment is part of the problem in the opposite direction. People like to blame fast equipment for issues when it is precisely fast equipment that makes offensive shots venomous and the issue is remaining consistent with it or controlling it. In fact, I suspect i would struggle to get someone to block the ball off the table with Acuda S1 on forehand. There is a reason why modern rubbers exist and Butterfly rubbers take most of the money and it isn't because Acuda S1 is the bomb.

Going from a 5ply to an inner blade allowed me to start learning to spin the ball more when stepping away from the table a few meters, because I'm not so preoccupied on getting enough forward power to land it on the table. So I don't think slower is always better for development either.

 

[Tyce]

True, Falcima isn't slow for a 5ply though. But my Appelgren Allplay agrees with you

 

[Haito]

Show us what u got. Bro show the loopies, or come to Germany. If we meet in Germany I can teach you the loopies.