Finally grasped the essence of table tennis biomechanical principle Chinese style! (Chain reaction of power from the ground) (UPDATED AGAIN)

[StreamOfWater]

Just reading your name in here actually helps me visualise the entire thing, fluidity in motion. Nice 😁

Haha, thank you 😂

 

[zeio]

can you elaborate on that, how woukd you discribe the right movement

In Chinese, 拉球/literally "pull ball", or specifically, 拉弧圈/pull arc loop, is the term for the stroke. To help visualize the stroke, especially the weight transfer, think of the motion involved in pulling a heavy glass door open at a mall, especially those with 2 layers of doors (arctic entry) where you have to overcome the "suction" from the pressure difference.

For FH, think of pulling the left door open with your right hand while standing right in front of a double-door (vice versa for lefties). Likewise for BH, think of pulling the right door open.

Another way to visualize is think of throwing a frisbee, especially for the forward swing and follow-through of the loop stroke.

 

[longle]

I know your feeling when I first learnt table tennis, each time I understand something new I get so happy, and even filming myself doing shadow training just like you The journey will be long and full of up down moments but I hope you will keep loving the sport.

Here is the video I think summarizes the key of the forehand stroke, it helped me alot in developing my FH, I hope you will like it

 

[StreamOfWater]

I know your feeling when I first learnt table tennis, each time I understand something new I get so happy, and even filming myself doing shadow training just like you The journey will be long and full of up down moments but I hope you will keep loving the sport.

Here is the video I think summarizes the key of the forehand stroke, it helped me alot in developing my FH, I hope you will like it

Thank you for the comment! Haha! Yeah, I already had many, I am prepared for anything at this point, especially when I got chosen to represent my university. Nevertheless, my passion is sky high, I am looking forward to every training session. Also, for some reason, the video is unavailable... it doesn't open. I appreciate the help!

 

[StreamOfWater]

I know your feeling when I first learnt table tennis, each time I understand something new I get so happy, and even filming myself doing shadow training just like you The journey will be long and full of up down moments but I hope you will keep loving the sport.

Here is the video I think summarizes the key of the forehand stroke, it helped me alot in developing my FH, I hope you will like it

Nevermind, it opened now... No idea what happened. Don't mind!

 

[TTAntiPlayer]

I’m curious about the origin of the term 'Power from ground/Chinese weight transfer .' Do players from other continents not use body weight transfer, or was this technique first used by Chinese players?

 

[StreamOfWater]

I’m curious about the origin of the term 'Power from ground/Chinese weight transfer .' Do players from other continents not use body weight transfer, or was this technique first used by Chinese players?

The term "weight transfer" is general, but it's incorrect. The movement is more of kinetic chain. Although professionals from every continent use the body, Chinese emphasize it a lot more, pushing with their legs and emphasizing waist, more lower body, whereas European style is more direct, emphasizing upper body, arm. I just looked it up and it seems the term is rooted in some parts of culture, like martial arts

There's also, without a doubt, Chinese rubber influence... The use of tacky rubbers (like DHS Hurricane 3) requires more effort in engaging the entire body to generate power, engaging the hard sponge, whereas tensor rubbers (like Tenergy) allow more relaxed, wrist-heavy strokes

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I’m curious about the origin of the term 'Power from ground/Chinese weight transfer .' Do players from other continents not use body weight transfer, or was this technique first used by Chinese players?

every body use weight transfers today.
everything is hybrid today if I can call it such.

I think there is too much emphasize on "chinese technique" in this thread, but all this is theory
it means nothing if you can't put it in action
and even if you put it in action, it doesn't make you the best - just like the other 90% of in the Chinese national team, who are taught with such theory since young.
Why I say that? because they can't beat the strong non Chinese (consistently - some have very bad track records)

The reason why China is so strong is also based on their core numbers. The bests of the 30 provinces goes into the national team.
each province have hundreds to thousands of players to choose from for its 20-30 players.

so you are bound to have the elite when you have such numbers.
If they played like Europeans, they will still win.

Now today, everyone does weight transfer, from legs and waist,

so OP, i'm sorry to hijack your thread, but maybe 20 years ago, what you say is correct.

 

[Jslick89]

every body use weight transfers today.
everything is hybrid today if I can call it such.

I think there is too much emphasize on "chinese technique" in this thread, but all this is theory
it means nothing if you can't put it in action
and even if you put it in action, it doesn't make you the best - just like the other 90% of in the Chinese national team, who are taught with such theory since young.
Why I say that? because they can't beat the strong non Chinese (consistently - some have very bad track records)

The reason why China is so strong is also based on their core numbers. The bests of the 30 provinces goes into the national team.
each province have hundreds to thousands of players to choose from for its 20-30 players.

so you are bound to have the elite when you have such numbers.

Now today, everyone does weight transfer, from legs and waist,

so OP, i'm sorry to hijack your thread, but maybe 20 years ago, what you say is correct.

OP could look at my post history too. I frequently talk about the kinetic chain but i definitely do not consider my technique to be "Chinese" style. I do appreciate OP sharing things that have clicked with him though. May those light bulbs never stop powering on!

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

OP could look at my post history too. I frequently talk about the kinetic chain but i definitely do not consider my technique to be "Chinese" style. I do appreciate OP sharing things that have clicked with him though. May those light bulbs never stop powering on!

yes, kinetic chain is in all sports and is not unique to table tennis and it sure isn't unique to Chinese table tennis players.

I came to realize there is no textbook table tennis technique.

 

[zeio]

I’m curious about the origin of the term 'Power from ground/Chinese weight transfer .' Do players from other continents not use body weight transfer, or was this technique first used by Chinese players?

"Power from ground" could be a translation of the Chinese phrase 力從地起/literally "force from the ground up", borrowed from martial arts.

 

[Dr Evil]

I know good coaches who recommend shadow strokes for practice, so I'm probably in the minority, but I think they're not very helpful and often counter-productive. A core skill in table tennis is adjusting to the ball. This can mean a lot of different things, but to hit a quality forehand often the first thing it means is getting your body out of the way so you can take a full swing. Learning to get out the way isn't something to be tacked onto your technique after you perfect the kinetic chain; adjusting to the ball and getting your feet in the right position with good balance is literally the foundation of the kinetic chain. Without it you have nothing useful, which is what I think you'll end up with if you start with shadow strokes.

 

[zeio]

The term "weight transfer" is general, but it's incorrect. The movement is more of kinetic chain. Although professionals from every continent use the body, Chinese emphasize it a lot more, pushing with their legs and emphasizing waist, more lower body, whereas European style is more direct, emphasizing upper body, arm. I just looked it up and it seems the term is rooted in some parts of culture, like martial arts

There's also, without a doubt, Chinese rubber influence... The use of tacky rubbers (like DHS Hurricane 3) requires more effort in engaging the entire body to generate power, engaging the hard sponge, whereas tensor rubbers (like Tenergy) allow more relaxed, wrist-heavy strokes

An interesting finding in a biomechanical study of MLin and WH is that the kinetic chain principle is not always followed, at least for FH loop against backspin ball.

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/fo...against-underspin-technique.24739/post-335791
https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/you-be-using-too-much-shoudler-you.24997/post-342597

 

[StreamOfWater]

every body use weight transfers today.
everything is hybrid today if I can call it such.

I think there is too much emphasize on "chinese technique" in this thread, but all this is theory
it means nothing if you can't put it in action
and even if you put it in action, it doesn't make you the best - just like the other 90% of in the Chinese national team, who are taught with such theory since young.
Why I say that? because they can't beat the strong non Chinese (consistently - some have very bad track records)

The reason why China is so strong is also based on their core numbers. The bests of the 30 provinces goes into the national team.
each province have hundreds to thousands of players to choose from for its 20-30 players.

so you are bound to have the elite when you have such numbers.
If they played like Europeans, they will still win.

Now today, everyone does weight transfer, from legs and waist,

so OP, i'm sorry to hijack your thread, but maybe 20 years ago, what you say is correct.

All good! I am mostly speaking from the little experience I have, and knowledge (homework I did myself), because that's all I have. Always ready to be corrected 😁

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I know good coaches who recommend shadow strokes for practice, so I'm probably in the minority, but I think they're not very helpful and often counter-productive.

I'm not a fan too.
When I was coaching in South Africa, where kids play less than 10 hours a week, I would give them shadow homework. but the homework was not the stroke, but rather footwork. Shadow can never be for hitting the ball, because there is just no ball and no realty. But for footwork, it is okay.

A core skill in table tennis is adjusting to the ball. This can mean a lot of different things, but to hit a quality forehand often the first thing it means is getting your body out of the way so you can take a full swing. Learning to get out the way isn't something to be tacked onto your technique after you perfect the kinetic chain; adjusting to the ball and getting your feet in the right position with good balance is literally the foundation of the kinetic chain. Without it you have nothing useful, which is what I think you'll end up with if you start with shadow strokes.

fully agree

 

[dingyibvs]

I know good coaches who recommend shadow strokes for practice, so I'm probably in the minority, but I think they're not very helpful and often counter-productive. A core skill in table tennis is adjusting to the ball. This can mean a lot of different things, but to hit a quality forehand often the first thing it means is getting your body out of the way so you can take a full swing. Learning to get out the way isn't something to be tacked onto your technique after you perfect the kinetic chain; adjusting to the ball and getting your feet in the right position with good balance is literally the foundation of the kinetic chain. Without it you have nothing useful, which is what I think you'll end up with if you start with shadow strokes.

I disagree. Shadow practice is extremely helpful and is the first step in learning new techniques. You get the feel of the technique with shadow practice first, then with a consistent ball, then you try to add things like moving, leaning, etc. and so on and so forth. With every addition you're looking to replicate the the feeling you initially learned through shadow practice, until you can do it as often as possible with as many balls as possible.

It's IMO especially helpful for adult learners who already has years of experience playing and have an idea of how a ball may react. I can replicate in my mind how a ball would react to a stroke, and how I need to adjust to different balls, which makes shadow practice all the more effective. In fact, with that, you can even practice in your mind. Sometimes I practice new motions or services in my mind when I'm on vacation, and I come back able to execute things much better.

At some point of time, you'll overdo it, trying to apply the technique when it's not appropriate, but that's part of the process of figuring things out. Having a coach is of course very helpful throughout all this.

 

[StreamOfWater]

I disagree. Shadow practice is extremely helpful and is the first step in learning new techniques. You get the feel of the technique with shadow practice first, then with a consistent ball, then you try to add things like moving, leaning, etc. and so on and so forth. With every addition you're looking to replicate the the feeling you initially learned through shadow practice, until you can do it as often as possible with as many balls as possible.

It's IMO especially helpful for adult learners who already has years of experience playing and have an idea of how a ball may react. I can replicate in my mind how a ball would react to a stroke, and how I need to adjust to different balls, which makes shadow practice all the more effective. In fact, with that, you can even practice in your mind. Sometimes I practice new motions or services in my mind when I'm on vacation, and I come back able to execute things much better.

At some point of time, you'll overdo it, trying to apply the technique when it's not appropriate, but that's part of the process of figuring things out. Having a coach is of course very helpful throughout all this.

I have noticed that too! Visualization is incredibly powerful 😁

 

[Dr Evil]

I disagree. Shadow practice is extremely helpful and is the first step in learning new techniques. You get the feel of the technique with shadow practice first, then with a consistent ball, then you try to add things like moving, leaning, etc. and so on and so forth. With every addition you're looking to replicate the the feeling you initially learned through shadow practice, until you can do it as often as possible with as many balls as possible.

It's IMO especially helpful for adult learners who already has years of experience playing and have an idea of how a ball may react. I can replicate in my mind how a ball would react to a stroke, and how I need to adjust to different balls, which makes shadow practice all the more effective. In fact, with that, you can even practice in your mind. Sometimes I practice new motions or services in my mind when I'm on vacation, and I come back able to execute things much better.

At some point of time, you'll overdo it, trying to apply the technique when it's not appropriate, but that's part of the process of figuring things out. Having a coach is of course very helpful throughout all this.

You're definitely not alone in this opinion, but we'll have to agree to disagree. Adjusting to the ball is fundamental to good technique, and if you remove that constraint than you're more likely to be practicing bad technique than good. I agree that visualization can be extremely helpful -- in The Inner Game of Tennis the author wrote about how just watching video of a professional match before playing often made his students play better -- but that's a separate issue.

 

[igorponger]

Hit the ball forcefully, I like to crash everybody, thanks to the springy cushion known as MARTIAL MAKIWARA designed for boxing exercises. Get this nice not expensive, Heh, through the many punching drills, I have now got a deadly heavy blow I like so much. Potent man in every aspect.

 

[NetProphet]

I know good coaches who recommend shadow strokes for practice, so I'm probably in the minority, but I think they're not very helpful and often counter-productive.

I don't see how independently practicing what you need to do once in position will lead to negative effects when training.
Feeling in feet, legs, strength in legs core etc is all different for different people so for many this practice is invaluable.

A core skill in table tennis is adjusting to the ball. This can mean a lot of different things, but to hit a quality forehand often the first thing it means is getting your body out of the way so you can take a full swing.

Agreed here. Much of what you do shot by shot at the speed of this game is improvisational.

Learning to get out the way isn't something to be tacked onto your technique after you perfect the kinetic chain

Why not?
I mean, doing footwork drills for months and shadow practicing the chain of movement for months can be stitched together at some point to practice both, fast footwork followed by differing shots. It can also be practiced with a robot.

; adjusting to the ball and getting your feet in the right position with good balance is literally the foundation of the kinetic chain.

Doesn't mean every shot has to incorporate difficult footwork first though.

Without it you have nothing useful, which is what I think you'll end up with if you start with shadow strokes.

I don't agree here. I know plenty of players that are patient and tactical. They don't have amazing footwork, they're not doing compound sidestep and pivot FH from BH side of table but they'll take their chance when it comes.

Maybe your speaking to an over 2200 level super attacking they style where people have ability that makes almost everything loopable but many of us mortals will never get there!