First Time Penholder: Help me out!

The lack of wrist flexibility comes from improperly set finger rest, the bump. Sometimes, like when I got my miyabi, the block is just too far forward relative to the wings of the bat, hence your index has to stretch more and comes mobility issues.
 
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I actually tried penhold a bit yesterday lol. RPB and FH all have more naturally open angles compared to shakehand so that was definitely something to adjust to. I kept overshooting the table. But the spin quality is comparable to what I get with shakehand. Penhold is a backspin killer - loopkilling even heavy backspin is pretty nice.

the weird thing is with the middle area (i only do RPB not TPB), it is super awkward. I can't really use RPB in the middle area the way I use shakehand BH which is annoying - with shakehand BH in the middle area i actually have a really deadly fade BH topspin switch down the line - i can't do that with penhold because i actually can't get the angle to contact the right side of the ball.
 
I actually tried penhold a bit yesterday lol. RPB and FH all have more naturally open angles compared to shakehand so that was definitely something to adjust to. I kept overshooting the table. But the spin quality is comparable to what I get with shakehand. Penhold is a backspin killer - loopkilling even heavy backspin is pretty nice.

the weird thing is with the middle area (i only do RPB not TPB), it is super awkward. I can't really use RPB in the middle area the way I use shakehand BH which is annoying - with shakehand BH in the middle area i actually have a really deadly fade BH topspin switch down the line - i can't do that with penhold because i actually can't get the angle to contact the right side of the ball.
that is where tpb comes in.
 
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I actually tried penhold a bit yesterday lol. RPB and FH all have more naturally open angles compared to shakehand so that was definitely something to adjust to. I kept overshooting the table. But the spin quality is comparable to what I get with shakehand. Penhold is a backspin killer - loopkilling even heavy backspin is pretty nice.

the weird thing is with the middle area (i only do RPB not TPB), it is super awkward. I can't really use RPB in the middle area the way I use shakehand BH which is annoying - with shakehand BH in the middle area i actually have a really deadly fade BH topspin switch down the line - i can't do that with penhold because i actually can't get the angle to contact the right side of the ball.
Use Penhold strawberry flick to contact the other side ?
 
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that is where tpb comes in.
Nah if I go penhold I will go in Felix Lebrun style ie full RPB and penhold. I suspect with penhold RPB it just doesn't work well with middle balls, you just have to use FH like a true penholder. But this is something weird to adjust to
 
Nah if I go penhold I will go in Felix Lebrun style ie full RPB and penhold. I suspect with penhold RPB it just doesn't work well with middle balls, you just have to use FH like a true penholder. But this is something weird to adjust to
Fair enough, but a true penholder also uses TPB xD
 
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I think fast change from bh to fh is most difficult, especially in just blocking. I think pressing the thumb is important here.
 
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Nah if I go penhold I will go in Felix Lebrun style ie full RPB and penhold. I suspect with penhold RPB it just doesn't work well with middle balls, you just have to use FH like a true penholder. But this is something weird to adjust to
Look at Wang Hao, the King of backhand from any position, the predecessor to Shidong and Zhendong game structure. I think it is more about precision, with HIS RPB style you need to be more precise with your stroke due to a bit more closed racket angle. RPB can be both played with really open angle and really closed angle, but it depends on your grip and can not be changed during the game. So if you want to play such balls you can experement with grip style.
 
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Fair enough, but a true penholder also uses TPB xD
As a penholder for many years who does both gosh if I could learn the game all over again, I'd do what i'm doing with my girls which is RPB full time.

That hesitation of should I TPB or RPB is a killer IMO. I'd love to play like Wang Hao but I just can't teach my brain to do it on quick balls to my BH. Instinctively I just use TPB. Consequently, there is the occasional ball I simply cannot play as strong as i've committed to TPB where RPB would be the better shot.

Now yes you can play both and there are some advantages I suppose to being able to be able to do both but modern younger penholders today don't even waste time with TPB. They're full go RPB all the time. I think there's a reason for that.

As to the person who started this off. Think of it this way. You're basically like a shakehander now. You have a crossover point. Try not to get caught.
 
As a penholder for many years who does both gosh if I could learn the game all over again, I'd do what i'm doing with my girls which is RPB full time.
That 100% makes sense especially with the evolving game, but wouldn't you just play SH by then? There is 0 use for penholders since RPB is ever so slightly weaker than the SH backhand. However, I think of it this way: TPB and RPB are two halves of a whole, both together to match SH backhand in power and accuracy. This is why many people, like @greenbeanmachine , @zhzhzhz , and me, prefer going the TPB route first before the RPB one.

Whoops I forgot to mention feeling, because thats the reason I switched to penhold xD, making this another reason to use PH. But even then TPB should be useful.
That hesitation of should I TPB or RPB is a killer IMO. I'd love to play like Wang Hao but I just can't teach my brain to do it on quick balls to my BH. Instinctively I just use TPB. Consequently, there is the occasional ball I simply cannot play as strong as i've committed to TPB where RPB would be the better shot.
That's just training, set your mind to it!
Now yes you can play both and there are some advantages I suppose to being able to be able to do both but modern younger penholders today don't even waste time with TPB. They're full go RPB all the time. I think there's a reason for that.
Like I said above, TPB is the other half. Adding to that, I personally believe that refusing TPB is a big fat mistake by these new gen players because RPB-only restricts your other spin abilities TPB is so overpowered in.
As to the person who started this off. Think of it this way. You're basically like a shakehander now. You have a crossover point. Try not to get caught.
Yep, sadly. SH and PH should be quite different for variety, but now we just got a battle between two players with the same grip usage.
 
says Mr. super ZLC
As a penholder for many years who does both gosh if I could learn the game all over again, I'd do what i'm doing with my girls which is RPB full time.

That hesitation of should I TPB or RPB is a killer IMO. I'd love to play like Wang Hao but I just can't teach my brain to do it on quick balls to my BH. Instinctively I just use TPB. Consequently, there is the occasional ball I simply cannot play as strong as i've committed to TPB where RPB would be the better shot.
This post feels so true, but it goes against my morals a bit. I mean yea if you make a player fully based on drives and no defence, this RPB only might work. I am not sure whether you mean RPB full time, as in only using it for drives and loops, and using TPB side for other things. I am pretty sure the hesitation plays such a big role because we played only TPB for a decent amount of time and only learned RPB later on. The decision should not be hard for a player who learned RPB two or three months after starting.
Now yes you can play both and there are some advantages I suppose to being able to be able to do both but modern younger penholders today don't even waste time with TPB. They're full go RPB all the time. I think there's a reason for that.
Yes. RPB just generates more spin and has better power. A different rubber ment for backhand can also be used in the RPB side, making attacking using backhand easier.
As to the person who started this off. Think of it this way. You're basically like a shakehander now. You have a crossover point. Try not to get caught.
Maybe try using TPB when the ball comes to the crossover section. Capitalizing on penhold`s strength would be the ideal thing to do.

That 100% makes sense especially with the evolving game, but wouldn't you just play SH by then? There is 0 use for penholders since RPB is ever so slightly weaker than the SH backhand. However, I think of it this way: TPB and RPB are two halves of a whole, both together to match SH backhand in power and accuracy. This is why many people, like @greenbeanmachine , @zhzhzhz , and me, prefer going the TPB route first before the RPB one.
Tbh, this feels outdated. I have seen amazing results with new penholders learning RPB from the start. They don't hesitate to attack with RPB. Iv seen myself take too much time deciding on TPB and RPB, and I took a bit of time to get over that. With the modern game in mind it's almost a waste of effort to attack with TPB. But you do need TPB for pushes, lobs, and other non-attacking strokes.
Whoops I forgot to mention feeling, because thats the reason I switched to penhold xD, making this another reason to use PH. But even then TPB should be useful.
Penhold has an advantage by being able to use the same rubber and sometimes switching up the rubbers, allowing the ball to go at different speeds and heights (if you have decently different rubbers). This will throw the opponent off.
Like I said above, TPB is the other half. Adding to that, I personally believe that refusing TPB is a big fat mistake by these new gen players because RPB-only restricts your other spin abilities TPB is so overpowered in.
I mean, they do use the TPB side for different strokes, but it's almost impossible to play properly without using some form of TPB. It is neglected, but it is used.

Having said all this, I have heard people say things like they push mainly with their RPB side. Can someone explain this to me? I do mix my RPB and TPB sides while pushing, but how does one only push with their RPB side when the ball comes to the backhand side? This just sounds wack to me. In my opinion, this is so inefficient and useless. Is there anyone willing to explain how this is superior to pushing with TPB?
 
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Yes. RPB just generates more spin and has better power. A different rubber ment for backhand can also be used in the RPB side, making attacking using backhand easier.

Maybe try using TPB when the ball comes to the crossover section. Capitalizing on penhold`s strength would be the ideal thing to do.
Absolutely true. When you maximise this, it's gonna be super powerful.
Tbh, this feels outdated. I have seen amazing results with new penholders learning RPB from the start. They don't hesitate to attack with RPB. Iv seen myself take too much time deciding on TPB and RPB, and I took a bit of time to get over that. With the modern game in mind it's almost a waste of effort to attack with TPB. But you do need TPB for pushes, lobs, and other non-attacking strokes.
That's exactly what I was talking about! RPB does what TPB cannot, and vice versa!
Penhold has an advantage by being able to use the same rubber and sometimes switching up the rubbers, allowing the ball to go at different speeds and heights (if you have decently different rubbers). This will throw the opponent off.
Actually, I don't think it's gonna trip the oppent as much as the strokes itself being different. Think of it this way: TPB's blocks/punches give barely any spin, unlike RPB which gives a lot of spin. So even you have the same rubber on both sides, it'll still force the opponent to switch up their tactics to deal with each side.
I mean, they do use the TPB side for different strokes, but it's almost impossible to play properly without using some form of TPB. It is neglected, but it is used.
Yep, it's just that they're using it too little. Look to Ryu's iconic punch to the other corner, something RPB can't do as well. I mean they can, but overall TPB can do it so much better.
Having said all this, I have heard people say things like they push mainly with their RPB side. Can someone explain this to me? I do mix my RPB and TPB sides while pushing, but how does one only push with their RPB side when the ball comes to the backhand side? This just sounds wack to me. In my opinion, this is so inefficient and useless. Is there anyone willing to explain how this is superior to pushing with TPB?
Yeah idk what they're on about. Probably they just get used to it and CPen magically becomes SH 😂

Also, it could also be about the spin. When you push with RPB the racket is insanely open, which could help.
 
says former JPEN, now CPEN
Nah if I go penhold I will go in Felix Lebrun style ie full RPB and penhold. I suspect with penhold RPB it just doesn't work well with middle balls, you just have to use FH like a true penholder. But this is something weird to adjust to

forehand is still da way to go.....

my rpb is good but if possible i would like to even cover the whole table with my FH

but against people with decent BH its a herculean task to do so

thats where tactics come in to set up balls for my FH

pendulum sidespin serves yo
 
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forehand is still da way to go.....

my rpb is good but if possible i would like to even cover the whole table with my FH

but against people with decent BH its a herculean task to do so

thats where tactics come in to set up balls for my FH

pendulum sidespin serves yo
True xd
 
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Also, it could also be about the spin. When you push with RPB the racket is insanely open, which could help.
I don't think this statement is universally correct. I can be true in your penhold grip, but in mine it is exactly the opposite.

When i use RPB my angle is extremely closed, much more than my shakehand backhand stroke. So i use a lot of fast wrist movement when close to the table and wide forearm stroke when mid distance. And my RPB is stronger than my shakehand backhand because of this. it has little less speed, but much more spin and variety in placement. For me playing with open RPB angle are both uncomfortable and not effective.

So even if I wanted i could not push with my backhand side. But i don't see any reasons why anyone would push like this.
 
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