Harimoto ALC and Patrick Franziska Innerforce ZLC

[dec88]

Hello guys! I have Harimoto ALC blade (89gr) and would like to have second/backup with Franziska Innerforce ZLC other type of carbon. I wanna try something new (never played ZLC before and dont know differences between ALC and ZLC ) and I find something not fast ( like Harimoto ) with good control but perhaps little bit linear and a little bit stiff. And what do you think about Patrick Franziska Innerforce ZLC is it nice choice? I use D05/D80 now with Harimoto ALC. Maybe someone has experience with these blades? Thanks!

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[Wrighty67]

Hello guys! I have Harimoto ALC blade (89gr) and would like to have second/backup with Franziska Innerforce ZLC other type of carbon. I wanna try something new (never played ZLC before) and I find something not fast ( like Harimoto ) with good control but perhaps little bit linear and a little bit stiff. And what do you think about Patrick Franziska Innerforce ZLC is it nice choice? I use D05/D80 now with Harimoto ALC. Maybe someone has experience with these blades? Thanks!

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I have played with Harimoto ALC and now have inner force ALC. I have not played with Franziska ZLC but have used Innerforce ZLC - I found the ALC blades to be better for my style and found the ZLC to be a little bit too hard feeling once the carbon was reached and just did not enjoy the feel of the ZLC anywhere as near as I liked the Innerforce blades. It may be a personal thing but I would urge you to try a ZLC before spending all that money.

 

[GarField000]

Here is a topic about the difference between ALC and ZLC.
You might learn something from it.

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/diff-between-alc-and-zlc-any-comments-on-innerforce-layer-zlc-vs-jm-zlc.12521/

 

[SleepyMaster]

I have both of them. Franziska is slower little bit, and more flexy, it has more of a woody feeling. If you looking for more linear blade, I don't think that PFZLC is the one, because of the flex of this blade ball sometimes catapults like crazy (even the blade is not fast) and is rather soft. But when you get used to it - it became pretty controlled and a good one. Better pick Apollonia if you won't it more stiff, with more linear character and control of it is pretty amazing

 

[dec88]

I have both of them. Franziska is slower little bit, and more flexy, it has more of a woody feeling. If you looking for more linear blade, I don't think that PFZLC is the one, because of the flex of this blade ball sometimes catapults like crazy (even the blade is not fast) and is rather soft. But when you get used to it - it became pretty controlled and a good one. Better pick Apollonia if you won't it more stiff, with more linear character and control of it is pretty amazing

Sir you mean that Apollonia more stiff than Franziska? Im looking for something a little bit stiff (harder than Harimoto) Can you compare 3 blades Harimoto Franziska and Apollonia by parameters: speed-flex-stiff-spin? I saw that Harimoto more flex than Franziska it means Franziska more harder than Harimoto right? Thanks

 

[SleepyMaster]

Sir you mean that Apollonia more stiff than Franziska? Im looking for something a little bit stiff (harder than Harimoto) Can you compare 3 blades Harimoto Franziska and Apollonia by parameters: speed-flex-stiff-spin? I saw that Harimoto more flex than Franziska it means Franziska more harder than Harimoto right? Thanks

In my experience Apolonia is the most stiff, from all of this blades. Also I think flex of Franziska is more, bc the blade is slower that Harimoto, by when it flex when power loop balls goes super fast sometimes, faster than Harimoto and Apolonia (even they are little bit faster blades), that was surprising me for the first times. Also Franziska has a lot of vibration, little bit to much for my taste, but again you will get used to it with time. Apolonia has more solid and stiff feeling for sure. It better in hard contact, when with Harimoto harder contact often leads to losing of control, you should spinning over the ball more with it.

But again we are comparing blades with pretty similar construction and wood.
So spin of all the blades about the same - it’s a lot of spin with D09c, that I using for example.

If you looking for stiffness - Apolonia has the stiffest feelings of them all, then Harimoto, and Franziska is the least.

Fastest is Harimoto, then Apolonia, Franziska is the slowest.

This my feeling of them, and their differences. I have used this blades in a one year for some periods of time each

 

[andzejgolot]

Harimoto zlc is better than Apolonia zlc, Franziska zlc, layer zlc.
Headsize and handle change everything..
I would consider Andro Synteliac ZCi or VCi but Harimoto zlc is unique flex and still zlc stiffness

 

[dec88]

Harimoto zlc is better than Apolonia zlc, Franziska zlc, layer zlc.
Headsize and handle change everything..
I would consider Andro Synteliac ZCi or VCi but Harimoto zlc is unique flex and still zlc stiffness

Harimoto ZLC is slower than Apolonia and Franziska if I not misstaken?

 

[JJ Ng]

Harimoto ZLC is slower than Apolonia and Franziska if I not misstaken?

I don't use Butterfly products so I don't know. But looking at the thread, I think people are asking you not to change your blade.

Or perhaps go for something different like Viscaria or Super Viscaria?

 

[dec88]

In my experience Apolonia is the most stiff, from all of this blades. Also I think flex of Franziska is more, bc the blade is slower that Harimoto, by when it flex when power loop balls goes super fast sometimes, faster than Harimoto and Apolonia (even they are little bit faster blades), that was surprising me for the first times. Also Franziska has a lot of vibration, little bit to much for my taste, but again you will get used to it with time. Apolonia has more solid and stiff feeling for sure. It better in hard contact, when with Harimoto harder contact often leads to losing of control, you should spinning over the ball more with it.

But again we are comparing blades with pretty similar construction and wood.
So spin of all the blades about the same - it’s a lot of spin with D09c, that I using for example.

If you looking for stiffness - Apolonia has the stiffest feelings of them all, then Harimoto, and Franziska is the least.

Fastest is Harimoto, then Apolonia, Franziska is the slowest.

This my feeling of them, and their differences. I have used this blades in a one year for some periods of time each

Thanks sir! yeah, Im looking for second blade I would like something a little bit stiff than Harimoto ALC. After you description Apolonia seems better choice. Thanks a lot!

 

[dec88]

I don't use Butterfly products so I don't know. But looking at the thread, I think people are asking you not to change your blade.

Or perhaps go for something different like Viscaria or Super Viscaria?

I guess Viscaria has lots of speed for me. Harimoto ALC has enough speed for me and I guess Viscaria has more speed(

 

[andzejgolot]

listen I dont wanna talk too much, you like harimoto alc, and you want second blade what is the problem to change to the same blade but with different material? If you change composition, because feeling of alc and zlc is different and then head size, because wings from blades are different ( Lin Gaoyuan and Franziska owns the same head size and handle structure and it is slim at wings area which makes easier faster change from forehand to backhand at rallies) and another mystery is thickness of handle because Harimoto has own JOJO shape and different handle from all blades I met (except Synteliac which owns only handle of Harimoto) and you want try new things and it is trap because it change WEIGHT DISTRIBUTION and your stroke will be different.
Harimoto zlc is slow? Redzimski plays with Harimoto ZLC and looks a little bit overpowered against the hardest EU hitting player Jonathan Groth who plays really fast and Milosz is YOUNGER, VERY SLIM and you think it is slow?
You can buy anything but for me Harimoto ALC is the most Allround blade from Butterfly, it is like PRIMORAC for younger generation, it is boring too but I won't say bad things about Harimoto ALC and still miss my Harimoto ZLC

 

[SleepyMaster]

Thanks sir! yeah, Im looking for second blade I would like something a little bit stiff than Harimoto ALC. After you description Apolonia seems better choice. Thanks a lot!

No problem, always a pleasure to help, for some one who asked for it

 

[dec88]

listen I dont wanna talk too much, you like harimoto alc, and you want second blade what is the problem to change to the same blade but with different material? If you change composition, because feeling of alc and zlc is different and then head size, because wings from blades are different ( Lin Gaoyuan and Franziska owns the same head size and handle structure and it is slim at wings area which makes easier faster change from forehand to backhand at rallies) and another mystery is thickness of handle because Harimoto has own JOJO shape and different handle from all blades I met (except Synteliac which owns only handle of Harimoto) and you want try new things and it is trap because it change WEIGHT DISTRIBUTION and your stroke will be different.
Harimoto zlc is slow? Redzimski plays with Harimoto ZLC and looks a little bit overpowered against the hardest EU hitting player Jonathan Groth who plays really fast and Milosz is YOUNGER, VERY SLIM and you think it is slow?
You can buy anything but for me Harimoto ALC is the most Allround blade from Butterfly, it is like PRIMORAC for younger generation, it is boring too but I won't say bad things about Harimoto ALC and still miss my Harimoto ZLC

Thanks Andzej! Nice idea about handle structure and thickness of handle Harimoto. What about vibration Harimoto ZLC has vibration like ALC or less? Do you remember?

 

[andzejgolot]

I dont know. I AM not expert. You can find more relevant opinion so it is hard to judge from my perspective, sorry.

 

[kingkimchi]

Harimoto zlc is better than Apolonia zlc, Franziska zlc, layer zlc.
Headsize and handle change everything..
I would consider Andro Synteliac ZCi or VCi but Harimoto zlc is unique flex and still zlc stiffness

why do you think im using it

 

[dec88]

why do you think im using it

Could you share your thoughts about Harimoto ZLC? Not many reviews I can find

 

[kingkimchi]

Could you share your thoughts about Harimoto ZLC? Not many reviews I can find

Depends what rubbers you're using... Currently, I find it very stable, even with added power. But again, as with all carbon blades, you cannot go all out power on it and expect every shot to hit the table, it will fly off the edge. The two limba outer plies really bite into the ball during all strokes, especially backspin. There is not much catapult effect from the blade and rubbers in the rally, or during training. However, the serves really jump at your opponent, which requires a decent amount of wrist force, of course. Overall, really good blade. Works well with all offensive rubbers howver, too heavy ones will be hard to deal with as of the big head size. I have never tried defensive rubbers on this blade, as they go on my donic defplay v3.