Help with beating my friend

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No spin serves can be very effective even at the highest levels. The trick is to make the serve look just like the heavy ones.

Also, a carbon/balsa blade might not be the best thing if you are learning and trying to get better.
 
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To get to the top table on a Friday night in Heckmondwyke.

They play a game with 5 or 6 tables in play. First one to win a game shouts "game" and everyone in the centre stops where they are.

If you are leading in your game you go "up" a table. If you are loosing in your game then you go "down" a table. If you are drawing you play a deciding point.

Because they are all league players and I'm pretty much a novice, I end up being on the bottom two tables all night. My next goal is to make it to the top, then obviously to "stay there" once I have done so.
 
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If you're only looking to beat your mate then you need to practice looping and pushing. The robot can help a little with this, but the problem is a chopper will vary the spin whereas the robot cannot give real life simulations. I'd suggest working on looping underspin so that you can learn to loop his chop and then push short to make him run in. An easy way to win points outright is to serve fast no serve spins to his pips and hope he chop blocks this will bring the ball high which should allow you to smash and win the point. If your mate doesn't twiddle (spin the racket to use inverted on backhand and vice versa) then you should try to serve to his pips as much as often so you understand what's happening to the ball. I'd guess that your mate can attack and chop with his inverted.

If you're looking to become a better player I'd suggest NOT playing in league and such, but find practice partners to help your foundation in the basics. Loop, Block, Push, Serve. Record your matches from multiple angles so you can get an idea of where you're going wrong. Also this will allow most of us to see more of your play and give you the proper advice.

Hope this helps.
 
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Well done! Top table is fun, keep doing it, and you'll get to the top in no time.

Thanks mate, that's my intention!

Thats the spirit Vince, keep up the spirit and have patience. As they say , bad news is you are stuck at the lower two tables but the good news is there is only one way now , UP
!!

I'll be really chuffed if I can get to the top table, there's some good players amongst them.

If you're only looking to beat your mate then you need to practice looping and pushing. The robot can help a little with this, but the problem is a chopper will vary the spin whereas the robot cannot give real life simulations. I'd suggest working on looping underspin so that you can learn to loop his chop and then push short to make him run in. An easy way to win points outright is to serve fast no serve spins to his pips and hope he chop blocks this will bring the ball high which should allow you to smash and win the point. If your mate doesn't twiddle (spin the racket to use inverted on backhand and vice versa) then you should try to serve to his pips as much as often so you understand what's happening to the ball. I'd guess that your mate can attack and chop with his inverted.

If you're looking to become a better player I'd suggest NOT playing in league and such, but find practice partners to help your foundation in the basics. Loop, Block, Push, Serve. Record your matches from multiple angles so you can get an idea of where you're going wrong. Also this will allow most of us to see more of your play and give you the proper advice.

Hope this helps.

Hi RichardD.

I did beat him last time we played. My loops have improved and are now as good if not better than his chops. By being patient I can win the point because I'm on the attack. So when the opportunity arises to smash it and win the point I can do, as long as I remain patient and keep looping his chops.

With reference to improving, I'm 50 years old and have only just started playing again with mates. I did have tremendous ambition to beat my mate Chris and therefore had the motivation to do so, whatever it took. I do want to improve and getting to the top table at my club would be a great achievement. However, I don't think at 50 I have the time nor inclination to become a world beater. Let's face it, time isn't on my side, besides that, I have a business to run.

I will continue in the league matches whenever I get picked because it gives me an opportunity to "play" a competitive match. It is totally different playing win a competitive match than it is practicing with friends. Without that competitiveness how would I learn to play my best when the pressure is really on?

Tonight is my second league match, let's hope I do a bit better than I did last week.
 
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As a beginner no matter what age if you want to improve you need consistency which can only be taught in practice and drills. Match play is about mentality and adapting to the balls your opponent give you. A lot of players make the mistake in thinking that they will improve more if they play a lot of matches when in reality it hurts them in the long run.

I'm just trying to point out that with a few months of good solid training it sounds as though you could beat your mate almost every time where as the moment you may only win half or less the games you play. League matches are fun, I love to play in it, but for me to be the best player I can be I have to sacrifice a bit of match play to keep my foundation 'pure' in a sense.

Again this is just some friendly advice nothing concrete on how to be a better player, but from my coaches and high level friends they've all said the same thing. I encourage you to play and have fun, but in regards to your question on how to beat your mate the most practical way is definitely working on your foundation. You don't have to be world class to beat your mates, but if you would like to improve greatly it's always great to do some dedicated training before going to the league matches.

And at 50 don't cut yourself short. We've got plenty of students in their 60's and above at our club and they're taking our intermediate classes and private lessons and improving greatly. That's the great thing about this sport is that there is always a way to improve if you're willing to do the work.

Good luck with your league match.
 
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Thanks Richard.

Sound advice, here's what I'm doing to improve.

Playing with my mates
Playing with my new mates at the Heckmondwyke club on a Friday
Playing in the league matches when I am invited
Having 1 hour a week coaching from a qualified TT coach
Practicing against the robot at home, with it set on top spin and backspin alike
Working on my footwork as I get the robot to fire balls left and right
Working on my service game.

The robot work is about an hour a night during the week and a couple of hours on a Saturday and Sunday.
 
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So, I will explain a little of why, what Richard is saying is actually pretty good advice. In match play, we do improve. We get better at handling things we get thrown. But, we get better within the framework of the habits and patterns we already have. And chances are, there are are a bunch of things that you do that work to some extent that are a bit inefficient. Unless you somehow have really good form on your strokes, and your footwork patterns are always how they should be, there are probably a lot of things you do and get away with when you play with people who are at about the same level as you. When you play someone better than you, those same things will handicap you because they will not work. In match play you get better at what you are already doing. And you can only get better to a certain extent.

In training, where you are not trying to win the points, but you are trying to do things the RIGHT WAY, you improve your strokes, your footwork, your technique. There are times when I have heard coaches tell someone, "if you really do want to improve, then you should not play any matches for the next 6 months, and just keep working on technique, because you need to change your strokes."

It is very rare for a beginner, to start with good strokes and footwork, unless they start with coaching at an early age rather than starting by playing games and matches with friends. Most people who played casually without coaching and then start getting more interested in table tennis as a sport have many many many bad habits in their stroke production that would need to be changed for them to make real, and marked improvements.

What should you do, VinceG? I don't know. There is something to be said for just playing matches, playing with friends, and letting yourself have fun within the framework of what you are already able to do and how you already play. If that is enough for you, then, just keep playing and have fun. If you just keep playing you will get better to a certain degree and at a certain point, the technique you have will cause you to plateau and it will be hard to make any more improvements after that. But that may be okay.

If you want to really improve, start filming yourself. Look at how you hit when you are playing matches, look at how you hit when your coach is blocking for you and you are looping and all the other drills you do. Look at your form when you are on the robot. And really start seeing how you can improve the mechanics of your strokes. To do that, you may really need the help of your coach. But, at 50 you still can do it. You just have to keep looking at film and seeing how hard it is to change some of those habits. They do change over time. But if you don't get a chance to look at film of yourself, chances are, there are a bunch of things you are doing that you are not aware of that are holding you back from higher level play.

Part of why match play can get in the way of that improvement is, in training you begin the work of changing the bad habits and improving your technique. And then you go and play a match and you undo all that work by using all your old, bad habits because they are easier to do and they will win you a point or two. Then you go back to working on technique and you are back to square one and have to undo the habits again and again. If you stop playing matches for a few months as you train good technique, you can groove those good strokes with good form and the right footwork patterns for long enough to get them into your muscle memory so that--once they are really in your muscle memory--in a match the good technique just comes naturally and the old techniques that were holding you back no longer pop up.

By the way, I will be 49 in one month. :)
 
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By the way VinceG, on your profile it lists your blade as Gambler Black Diamond and your rubbers as Xiom Vega 79-008. The number 79-008 is not actually part of the name of the rubber. It is the ITTF registration number. :) The real question would be, is your rubber Xiom Vega Pro, Xiom Vega Europe, Xiom Vega Elite. The words: Pro, Europe and Elite would indicate the different hardnesses of the sponge. I think there should be a small box under the word "Vega" that says one of those words to indicate which one it is. Although, I know I have seen Xiom rubbers that do say which one it is and ones that don't.

Okay, I decided to look it up. It looks like 79-008 is probably Vega Europe. I could be wrong but I think that is it. :)
 
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Matchplay is for putting together the things you learn in a dynamic environment where you MUST under pressure adjust to different things and succeed. This can be a tough task, but you need match play to go along with your training.

If you do just matches, or too many matches, you are not very productive and wont go far, except for enjoying Urself. That is important too. Wherever you learn, online, or from a live expert or coach, you need a proper balance of instruction, table drills, and matchplay. The ratio of match play doesn't have to be very high at first, even later not even half.

Richard is telling it like it is.
 
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So, I will explain a little of why, what Richard is saying is actually pretty good advice. In match play, we do improve. We get better at handling things we get thrown. But, we get better within the framework of the habits and patterns we already have. And chances are, there are are a bunch of things that you do that work to some extent that are a bit inefficient. Unless you somehow have really good form on your strokes, and your footwork patterns are always how they should be, there are probably a lot of things you do and get away with when you play with people who are at about the same level as you. When you play someone better than you, those same things will handicap you because they will not work. In match play you get better at what you are already doing. And you can only get better to a certain extent.

In training, where you are not trying to win the points, but you are trying to do things the RIGHT WAY, you improve your strokes, your footwork, your technique. There are times when I have heard coaches tell someone, "if you really do want to improve, then you should not play any matches for the next 6 months, and just keep working on technique, because you need to change your strokes."

It is very rare for a beginner, to start with good strokes and footwork, unless they start with coaching at an early age rather than starting by playing games and matches with friends. Most people who played casually without coaching and then start getting more interested in table tennis as a sport have many many many bad habits in their stroke production that would need to be changed for them to make real, and marked improvements.

What should you do, VinceG? I don't know. There is something to be said for just playing matches, playing with friends, and letting yourself have fun within the framework of what you are already able to do and how you already play. If that is enough for you, then, just keep playing and have fun. If you just keep playing you will get better to a certain degree and at a certain point, the technique you have will cause you to plateau and it will be hard to make any more improvements after that. But that may be okay.

If you want to really improve, start filming yourself. Look at how you hit when you are playing matches, look at how you hit when your coach is blocking for you and you are looping and all the other drills you do. Look at your form when you are on the robot. And really start seeing how you can improve the mechanics of your strokes. To do that, you may really need the help of your coach. But, at 50 you still can do it. You just have to keep looking at film and seeing how hard it is to change some of those habits. They do change over time. But if you don't get a chance to look at film of yourself, chances are, there are a bunch of things you are doing that you are not aware of that are holding you back from higher level play.

Part of why match play can get in the way of that improvement is, in training you begin the work of changing the bad habits and improving your technique. And then you go and play a match and you undo all that work by using all your old, bad habits because they are easier to do and they will win you a point or two. Then you go back to working on technique and you are back to square one and have to undo the habits again and again. If you stop playing matches for a few months as you train good technique, you can groove those good strokes with good form and the right footwork patterns for long enough to get them into your muscle memory so that--once they are really in your muscle memory--in a match the good technique just comes naturally and the old techniques that were holding you back no longer pop up.

By the way, I will be 49 in one month. :)

Thanks everyone for all your input, it's a real help. I know my footwork is all over the place because I simply can't get back to the ball after I have moved to a shot. That is definitely something I need to work on. I'll see if I can get another coaching session booked for tomorrow. Playing at Hecky tonight I only managed to win a couple of games, those players are in a different league to me. Oh, and my blade is the Gambler Black Diamond Light and my rubbers are Xiom Vega Europe.
 
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1. Use more no spin and top or sidetop serves near the net, defenders 90 % of the time wont flick. Half long serves, the ones that nearly pass the opponent's side of the table are a good option also. Personally when I play vs an attacker my serves are 70% underspin+sidespin and the rest 30% is no spin or top sidetop. VS a defender I use 50 50. It works for me, of course that doesnt mean it will work for you, identify his weaknesses and habits its the first thing you need to do.

2. Variation. It is a must no matter the opponent! By nature defenders play away from the table so you need to make him move in and out of the table untill you find the right ball to finish the point . Experiment with the wide angles also (fast serve to wide bh, then push or attack to wide FH)

3. A crucial question in all TT games is " is my skill level able to overcome his weaknesses"? If not the answer is not in tactics but in training effectively

4. Consistency, you need to land the ball more times than your opponent does. You dont have to attack all out, just make sure you attack and he doesnt. And we go back to no3. Most of the games vs defender are looping to his BH because he cannot attack effectively with his BH, he chops (I suppose he uses his FH to attack sometimes). So you need to cover the table with good FH attacks directed to his BH

Watching a video of you playing your mate will help us guide you even more, scouting is always the first step to win
 

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