Hinoki blades with Chinese rubbers?

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Yeah, Loki did the same thing with the Rxton 3 blue - radically different topsheet and sponge, but given the same name as the regular rubber due to their common pimple architecture... but with the R3Blue, it also made it a better rubber.The R3 was always pretty good, but the R3 Blue is a cracker! 😎 Very fast, spinny, and tacky with a good short game, but just like the T3 you need to play it in heavily to see it at its best (..and, just like the R5, it's far superior in both performance and longevity to a stock-standard H3).
As we are already off-topic : Don't know if you noticed that Loki quietly and sneakingly also brought out a new RXTON V with blue sponge, which they claim to have imported from Europe.

The number remained the same, 158-007 but the sponges are blue AND you can only get the rubbers if you purchase a complete racket
the LOKI 7 Star.

www.aliexpress.com/item/4001245035400.html?spm=a2g0o.store_pc_groupList.8148356.7.4ef5143bWn9IjV&pdp_npi=2%40dis!NZD!NZ%24 88.17!NZ%24 53.47!!!!!%40210321c716751558765735609e19e4!12000023404735052!sh
H880f665f4fd44d48a53c81cc6a85c6fbk.jpg



First I was going to get a unit just to score thew rubbers then got tricked into buying a DINGTIAN blue sponge version.
 
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As we are already off-topic : Don't know if you noticed that Loki quietly and sneakingly also brought out a new RXTON V with blue sponge, which they claim to have imported from Europe.

The number remained the same, 158-007 but the sponges are blue AND you can only get the rubbers if you purchase a complete racket
the LOKI 7 Star.

www.aliexpress.com/item/4001245035400.html?spm=a2g0o.store_pc_groupList.8148356.7.4ef5143bWn9IjV&pdp_npi=2%40dis!NZD!NZ%24 88.17!NZ%24 53.47!!!!!%40210321c716751558765735609e19e4!12000023404735052!sh
H880f665f4fd44d48a53c81cc6a85c6fbk.jpg



First I was going to get a unit just to score thew rubbers then got tricked into buying a DINGTIAN blue sponge version.
Wasn't aware of that, thanks for the heads up. IIRC, I think they did something similar with their Rxton 3 rubbers fitted to their own blades as well.

The LARC number staying the same makes sense, as apparently the ITTF only authorise the top sheet, not the sponge (or so I hear).

If that's correct, it means Loki can quite easily swap sponges to get a different performing rubber sheet, as well as change the formulation of the rubber used in the top sheet (which they have done numerous times now -- the Rxton 1 now also has a special version with an open-pored carbon sponge, not their usual cake sponge).

It seems so long as the pimple structure in a rubber remains unchanged there's no problem with these changes, and they don't need to issue another LARC.

...which tells me that logically, the ITTF don't really authorise the end result rubber per se -- what they really authorise is the rubber mould which the top-sheet comes from.
 
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I recently reglued my H3 rubbers (Neo 40 degrees OS on FH, Neo 37 degrees OS on BH) on my 7p-2a.7t and I have to say it is by far the most satisfying outcome when looping both FH and BH compared to any other setup I have used. Short Push game is also very controlled since the quite dead H3s counter the spring nature of this very fast Hinoki blade.

The only drawback I feel is that blocking fast and spinny shot of the opponents can sometimes be tricky since the catapult of the hinoki wood sometimes kicks in and the blocked balls sometimes fly out a bit unpredictable compared to my experiences with composite blades. Same goes for serving, but I think I can adapt to this with some training. Furthermore looping from the BH side from mid to far distance can be quite exhausting after some time since the 37 degree sponge just doesn't have enough energy transfer...this might change going 1-2 degrees higher on the BH side or trying out something else.

Nevertheless, looping with a Hinoki Blade is really a dream...Never generated as much Top- and Sidespin with any other combination I tried.
 
Looking for opinions. Has anyone tried using One Ply Hinoki with the more modern harder tensor rubber? E.g., Tenergy 05 Hard, MX-P50, Rasenter R53, Donic M1Turbo. All these newer ESN tensor are in the 50 degree hardness range. What is your experience like?

My EJ symptoms are acting up again.

Must resist.... resistance is futile.
I have tried using Dignics 09c on my Darker Speed 90 and it's really nice. Still on the fence about whether to switch to D09c or stick with a heavily boosted Hurricane 3.
 
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I have tried using Dignics 09c on my Darker Speed 90 and it's really nice. Still on the fence about whether to switch to D09c or stick with a heavily boosted Hurricane 3.
My vote is heavily boosted H3.
 
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I know this thread is somewhat old now but I wanted to add my two cents now that I've had some time to try different options.

I play traditional penhold style with a 1-ply 10.5mm kiso hinoki blade. I've tried Tenergy 05, Dignics 09c, and Hurricane 3 on it, and Hurricane is by far my favorite. The loops are incredible -- the dwell time of the wood, plus the dwell time of the rubber makes it feel like you can pick up the ball and throw it where you want it. The shots are incredibly spinny, too, and just as fast as Tenergy or Dignics if you brush the ball correctly. I HIGHLY recommend using Hurricane or Skyline on a hinoki blade.
 
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Looking for opinions. Has anyone tried using One Ply Hinoki with the more modern harder tensor rubber? E.g., Tenergy 05 Hard, MX-P50, Rasenter R53, Donic M1Turbo. All these newer ESN tensor are in the 50 degree hardness range. What is your experience like?

My EJ symptoms are acting up again.

Must resist.... resistance is futile.
Tried T05 Hard on a single ply jpen. As expected my passive shots (block and touch) suffered while power hit was just wonderful!
 
Tried T05 Hard on a single ply jpen. As expected my passive shots (block and touch) suffered while power hit was just wonderful!
Yeah unfortunately T05 Hard is really bouncy. I find that you can manage the block and touch game by playing with a very loose wrist. You can make a powerful stroke with your body -- focus on feeling the ball with your core/body, but keeping your wrist very limp and let your wrist react to the impact with the ball. In the TPB position this is a very stable shot. It allows a very good (and very delicate) active blocking game with T05 Hard.

I liked T05 Hard quite a bit, but I thought that Stiga Mantra XH felt even a little bit better. There's a little more dwell time and it has similar speed to T05 Hard.
 
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Yeah unfortunately T05 Hard is really bouncy. I find that you can manage the block and touch game by playing with a very loose wrist. You can make a powerful stroke with your body -- focus on feeling the ball with your core/body, but keeping your wrist very limp and let your wrist react to the impact with the ball. In the TPB position this is a very stable shot. It allows a very good (and very delicate) active blocking game with T05 Hard.

I liked T05 Hard quite a bit, but I thought that Stiga Mantra XH felt even a little bit better. There's a little more dwell time and it has similar speed to T05 Hard.
Thanks for the timely bump of a favorite subject 😂

Just about to step back onto the whole "one-ply rubber experimentation" treadmill myself ('cause it's so much fun 😁).

I caught up with a fellow one-ply fan for a fun hit recently. He brought his DS90 fitted with Rakza Z Max both sides to the party, and I brought my 9mm Wakkibat Black Death (my own personal custom variant on the Wakkibat Skolla MK 1, made with black Sköllawood) which was fitted with AK47 Blues both sides.

A good 90 minutes of one-ply swinging and direct playing comparison later, I can testify to the following:

- The DS90 rocks... First chance I've ever had to try one, and it's a killer, no question 😎. Lovely playing feel, and plenty of all the usual Hinoki playing characteristics were on show.

- Rakza Z works very well on a one-ply - very heavy spin with a devilish trajectory to the ball once you add in a little side spin.

- This was my very first opportunity to test one of my one-ply blades against a DS90. In my opinion, my Black Death went toe to toe with the DS90 and more than held its own, even despite being fitted with inferior rubbers. I freely admit I'm far from impartial when it comes to my one plys, but I had a really decent side-by-side hit with both blades, and I honestly couldn't separate them in terms of performance. Spin, speed, control and playing touch were all directly comparable and nigh impossible to separate. The DS90's feedback felt the tiniest touch more "buttery" but it was a very marginal thing, and given the difference in their playing rubbers it's franky hard to draw any further conclusions there. (Though this also seems pretty consistent with every other Hinoki blade I've tried against a Skölla).

- It's time to wean myself off of using AK47 blues on my one plys. I use the AK47 as a blade development test bed simply because of its cost and value for money proposition -- I have yet to find any other rubber that has such tensor-like performance for such a low price. But at the same time, it now occurs to me I'm probably selling my one-ply short by using them as demo rubbers.

The Rakza Z is a tacky & very spinny beast, whereas the AK47 is only very spinny for its price, and can be prone to slippage when lifting a low ball. Despite being an inferior rubber though, the AK47 was still matching the Rakza Z for spin and speed when fitted to my Black Death.

Frankly... I'm starting to suspect when driving with my one-plys using these cheaper rubbers, I'm actually driving with the handbrake on.

If they play that well when fitted with non-Tacky chinese cheapies... How's it going to perform with a Fastarc G1, Donic Barracuda or 1.9mm T05? 🤔

Hmmmm.... 🤔🤔🤔🤔

Quick vox-pop poll for all the one-ply fans out there: out of the three rubbers mentioned above, which would you try first?

Also -- if not one of the above, what rubber would you recommend?

All thoughts welcome.
 
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Quick vox-pop poll for all the one-ply fans out there: out of the three rubbers mentioned above, which would you try first?

Also -- if not one of the above, what rubber would you recommend?

All thoughts welcome.
I'd say if you're going to try T05, make it T05 Hard. I tried both on my DS90 and T05 was quite hard to control in the short game. I think soft rubber + soft blade makes for a very reactive setup.

My favorites for 1-ply hinoki are H3 Neo, Rasanter R48, and Mantra Pro XH. But my 1-ply hinoki is jpen whereas it sounds like you play handshake style.

Fastarc G1 seems like a good option. I haven't tried it on 1-ply but I think it will be very suitable for a topspin-drive style.

I haven't tried Rakza Z, but thank you for the recommendation I will add it to my list!
 
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I'd say if you're going to try T05, make it T05 Hard. I tried both on my DS90 and T05 was quite hard to control in the short game. I think soft rubber + soft blade makes for a very reactive setup.

My favorites for 1-ply hinoki are H3 Neo, Rasanter R48, and Mantra Pro XH. But my 1-ply hinoki is jpen whereas it sounds like you play handshake style.

Fastarc G1 seems like a good option. I haven't tried it on 1-ply but I think it will be very suitable for a topspin-drive style.

I haven't tried Rakza Z, but thank you for the recommendation I will add it to my list!
You're welcome, and thanks for the feedback. 🙂

I haven't tried the hard T05 at all yet, and I'm a little hesitant to try something too hard on a one ply. As I mentioned earlier in this thread (and other similar ones), my usual preference is to go with mid soft to mid hard sponge on one plys in order to heighten the popping catapult you get from the blade's wood, be it Hinoki, cypress, Sköllawood or anything else.

If may ask, when you tried the T05, what was the sponge thickness on it?

I hear what you're saying about the risk of soft rubbers on a soft blade, and agree that it's easy to go too fast in your short game that way, but you can counteract that with slightly thinner sponge, and that also allows more of the catapult effect through with harder sponge.
 
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I currently have a Friendship Battle 3 38 on an Andro Treiber FI blade, which has Hinoki outer layers. Combination works really well, can also easily handle 39 on this blade, but I prefer the slightly softer feel of the 38.

I feel that the blade is very much suited for Chinese rubbers, with its high throw and good speed to support the rubber.
 
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