Hurricane 3 arc + outer ALC blade

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Yesterday i noticed something off about the H3, even though i can produce great spin and speed in forehand drive, i think the ball doesn't make a great arc, it's really spinny i can tell, but it has flat trajectory, i tried to do forehand drive with fastarc G1 (my BH rubber), and it has really nice arc, but less spin, and it's easy for the opponent to return it. Is this expected? I thought that spin = arc, but maybe i'm wrong?
 
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Yesterday i noticed something off about the H3, even though i can produce great spin and speed in forehand drive, i think the ball doesn't make a great arc, it's really spinny i can tell, but it has flat trajectory, i tried to do forehand drive with fastarc G1 (my BH rubber), and it has really nice arc, but less spin, and it's easy for the opponent to return it. Is this expected? I thought that spin = arc, but maybe i'm wrong?
H3 throw angle is very low and unforgiving. 09c has just a little less spin but a much higher arc. Go for 09c if you want a rubber with just a bit less spin but much more safety
 
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Spin makes the ball's trajectory curve due the Magnus effect. More spin (for the same initial velocity) means a sharper curvature, and a sharper curvature (for the same initial velocity) means more spin -- that is unavoidable physics.

So what's the point? If you can't make your shot follow a curved trajectory, then it means you're not putting much spin on the ball. That's not necessarily a bad thing: a less spinny shot can be harder to return, especially if the opponent is surprised. But it is harder to be consistent.

My hunch is that many amateurs think they're getting more spin out of H3 than they actually are, maybe because they've read a bunch of online posts about how spinny H3 is. In order to get great spin out of H3, you need to boost it well and have efficient technique. If you have both of those things, you will have no trouble producing high-arcing shots with H3. Without both of those things, H3 can still be a useful rubber because it's slow and not sensitive to spin, so it's good in serve/receive and for hitting through spinny shots. But its offensive spin capabilities will not be that great.
 
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Spin makes the ball's trajectory curve due the Magnus effect. More spin (for the same initial velocity) means a sharper curvature, and a sharper curvature (for the same initial velocity) means more spin -- that is unavoidable physics.

So what's the point? If you can't make your shot follow a curved trajectory, then it means you're not putting much spin on the ball. That's not necessarily a bad thing: a less spinny shot can be harder to return, especially if the opponent is surprised. But it is harder to be consistent.

My hunch is that many amateurs think they're getting more spin out of H3 than they actually are, maybe because they've read a bunch of online posts about how spinny H3 is. In order to get great spin out of H3, you need to boost it well and have efficient technique. If you have both of those things, you will have no trouble producing high-arcing shots with H3. Without both of those things, H3 can still be a useful rubber because it's slow and not sensitive to spin, so it's good in serve/receive and for hitting through spinny shots. But its offensive spin capabilities will not be that great.
I’m pretty sure i’m producing a lot of spin, since normally the ball fly pretty high when opponent doesn’t block well.
And it does curve, but the ball’s height is close to net.
 
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the throw angle is even lower on the blue sponge. it's taken me 2 weeks to finally stop hitting so many balls off the end of the table.
U do have to get used to it. But once you do the reward is super satisfying.
 
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Spin makes the ball's trajectory curve due the Magnus effect. More spin (for the same initial velocity) means a sharper curvature, and a sharper curvature (for the same initial velocity) means more spin -- that is unavoidable physics.

So what's the point? If you can't make your shot follow a curved trajectory, then it means you're not putting much spin on the ball. That's not necessarily a bad thing: a less spinny shot can be harder to return, especially if the opponent is surprised. But it is harder to be consistent.

My hunch is that many amateurs think they're getting more spin out of H3 than they actually are, maybe because they've read a bunch of online posts about how spinny H3 is. In order to get great spin out of H3, you need to boost it well and have efficient technique. If you have both of those things, you will have no trouble producing high-arcing shots with H3. Without both of those things, H3 can still be a useful rubber because it's slow and not sensitive to spin, so it's good in serve/receive and for hitting through spinny shots. But its offensive spin capabilities will not be that great.
I think you're a little confused here? Different rubbers have different "throw angles". There's plenty of charts online from rubber manufactures that show this. You can even feel this yourself when you use different rubbers. If you use one rubber on tuesday, then switch to another rubber on thursday, and you notice a difference in the throw angle, it's not because your technique changed in two days and you produced more or less spin, its because the rubber has a different property.

I used orange sponge for over a year and now i'm using blue sponge. the throw angle is definitely lower but it's also spinner+ faster than the orange sponge.

I believe you are conflating spin effect with throw angle effect. Throw angle has more to do with the initial launch trajectory of the ball (IE, which direction the ball leaves the racket face at the moment of contact). This throw angle is influenced by dwell time, sponge deformation and rubber grip.

We know the blue sponge is more dense, and harder than the orange sponge. even at the same degree (say 40). Even at high swing speeds, the blue sponge will have less dwell time than the orange sponge due to its harder nature. However, it will also rebound faster (which creates more spin than the orange sponge). the result is going to be a lower throw angle but a spinnier ball.

All of this happens even before the magnus effect can start to take place. once the ball has been released from the rubber, at its throw angle, then based on how much spin the ball has, magnus effect will take place. So what does a lower trajectory high spin magnus effect look like? the ball traveling flatter for longer, and then a sharper dip at the end. This all lines up with physics just properly when you consider the initial lower throw angle...it means less vertical distance for the magnus effect to act upon.
U do have to get used to it. But once you do the reward is super satisfying.
agreed. i'm definitely making some better shots when its on!
 
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I’m pretty sure i’m producing a lot of spin, since normally the ball fly pretty high when opponent doesn’t block well.
And it does curve, but the ball’s height is close to net.

Did you switch directly from Rakza Z to H3(N)? Than it might just take a bit longer to get used to. Had the same issue when trying Battle 2 instead of my usual H3(N)s: many loops clipped the net and some went straight into the net before I got used to it. Same but in reverse when trying Rakza Z.
Boosting H3(N) usually increases throw angle. Falco Long and normal Haifu Seamoon for sure. Some like Haifu National Black (never tried myself) seem not do that see e.g. https://blog.tabletennis11.com/review-five-oil-based-boosters.
 
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I think you're a little confused here? Different rubbers have different "throw angles". There's plenty of charts online from rubber manufactures that show this. You can even feel this yourself when you use different rubbers. If you use one rubber on tuesday, then switch to another rubber on thursday, and you notice a difference in the throw angle, it's not because your technique changed in two days and you produced more or less spin, its because the rubber has a different property.

I used orange sponge for over a year and now i'm using blue sponge. the throw angle is definitely lower but it's also spinner+ faster than the orange sponge.

I believe you are conflating spin effect with throw angle effect. Throw angle has more to do with the initial launch trajectory of the ball (IE, which direction the ball leaves the racket face at the moment of contact). This throw angle is influenced by dwell time, sponge deformation and rubber grip.

We know the blue sponge is more dense, and harder than the orange sponge. even at the same degree (say 40). Even at high swing speeds, the blue sponge will have less dwell time than the orange sponge due to its harder nature. However, it will also rebound faster (which creates more spin than the orange sponge). the result is going to be a lower throw angle but a spinnier ball.

All of this happens even before the magnus effect can start to take place. once the ball has been released from the rubber, at its throw angle, then based on how much spin the ball has, magnus effect will take place. So what does a lower trajectory high spin magnus effect look like? the ball traveling flatter for longer, and then a sharper dip at the end. This all lines up with physics just properly when you consider the initial lower throw angle...it means less vertical distance for the magnus effect to act upon.
I was careful in my language because I didn't want to get into the "throw angle" conversation, given how subjectively it seems to be experienced by different players. My point was about the curvature relative to a given trajectory (distinct from the "arc") and I was specifically talking about holding the initial velocity constant (in physics, velocity is a vector which describes both speed and direction, so includes the trajectory).

In general, of course I agree that different rubbers have different throw angles. And that affects the height of the arc. But the curvature away from that initial trajectory is determined by the spin via the Magnus effect. I understand how a "low-throwing" rubber can result in a lower arc, but such an arc would still be strongly curved downwards if the ball is very spinny -- it wouldn't be "flat." However, I concede that it may appear flat to some people due to a visual illusion, or perhaps there is simply ambiguity in the language being used to describe it.

Big picture, I stand by my main point: if you can't produce a high arc, then you're not producing that much spin. Even if you're using a low-throwing rubber, it's possible to generate a higher initial trajectory by adjusting your swing.

FWIW, in my experience, well-boosted H3 does not have a very low throw angle.
 
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I was careful in my language because I didn't want to get into the "throw angle" conversation, given how subjectively it seems to be experienced by different players. My point was about the curvature relative to a given trajectory (distinct from the "arc") and I was specifically talking about holding the initial velocity constant (in physics, velocity is a vector which describes both speed and direction, so includes the trajectory).

In general, of course I agree that different rubbers have different throw angles. And that affects the height of the arc. But the curvature away from that initial trajectory is determined by the spin via the Magnus effect. I understand how a "low-throwing" rubber can result in a lower arc, but such an arc would still be strongly curved downwards if the ball is very spinny -- it wouldn't be "flat." However, I concede that it may appear flat to some people due to a visual illusion, or perhaps there is simply ambiguity in the language being used to describe it.

Big picture, I stand by my main point: if you can't produce a high arc, then you're not producing that much spin. Even if you're using a low-throwing rubber, it's possible to generate a higher initial trajectory by adjusting your swing.

FWIW, in my experience, well-boosted H3 does not have a very low throw angle.
I agree it wouldn't be flat and it is "sort of" an illusion, but the magnus effect acts continuously over a distance. If you have:

Point A & B. Then you have two trajectories; one curved and one a straight line. the curved line is covering more distance, thus the magnus effect act over a longer distance giving the appearance of a more circular arc. The lower trajectory will appear to be flatter longer, and then dip sharp at the end. I'm sure anyone who has used DHS hurricane orange sponge and blue sponge can vouch for this. or even people who have switched from a tenergy spring sponge to a harder Chinese rubber. This all falls well within what we would expect from natural physics.

Also, i do agree with your big picture, then if you can't make a high arc, you're not producing much spin. however, i would argue that a high arc shot....say a slow, spinny, high arc loop shot is not necessarily more RPM then a fast, direct spiny loop. I also agree that adjusting your swing does adjust the initial trajectory of the ball, and I believe there are some situations where a higher arc loop is more effective than a lower arc loop. Any experienced player knows that being able to throw your opponent off their rhythm and keep them guessing is going to be a good tactic.

Finally, i'm not sure i agree with your last comment. I guess it depends what you're comparing to. does a boosted H3 have a lower throw angle than a tenergy 05 or dignics 05 or even dignics 09c? yes it does. It it possible for a rubber to have a lower throw angle than a booster h3? sure i dont see why not. Out of the rubbers ive used, blue sponge has the lowest throw angle, then orange sponge, then dignics 09c then tenergy 05. I've also used tenergy 19 but only on my backhand so i cant really comment on the throw angle since my backhand isn't really a looping weapon yet lol.
 
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