I want to try short pips, what racket should I build for this?

[folie]

Hello. I am interested in trying out short pips. I like Mima Ito's playstyle and I'd like to try and see if it would work out for me.
I am at beginner level and still trying to find out what suits me. Right now, my gameplan revolves around trying to loop everything I can, not much strategy there. My BH loop is pretty weak, I just lose track of the ball and end up with bad ball contact sometimes, so I am working on that atm.
So, back to the racket, I would like to build a racket to try this out, since I don't want to change the rubbers on my acoustic right now, I just replaced them 2 weeks ago.
I was thinking of getting a slower setup, like a Sweden Extra , FH - not sure, BH - moristo sp 2.0/max.
Would the blade be alright for punching the ball/flicks, or is it too slow? I've never owned one or tried one, but I see it's highly rated.

Current setup ( Nittaku Acoustic FL - FH - G1 2.0, BH - R7 2.0 ).

 

[Lazer]

Bear in mind that pips on a blade is not good for looping.
Short pips are meant for flat and fast hits and are less sensitive to spin compared to inverted rubbers,

Cheers
L-zr

 

[folie]

Yes. I've searched for characteristics of short pips before I posted. I know they're not suited for looping. But BH looping isn't my strong point anyway, maybe flat hitting and flicks would work out better, hence why I would like to try it out for a bit.

Thank you.

 

[Brs]

Imo sweden extra will not be a good test for short pips. It's quite flexible and will be harder for you to control. Idk how much you want to spend. You could get a seven-ply wood like a clipper (or any clone fextra or whatever). Or if you have more money the mima ito carbon blade is on sale this week at tt11. That should be pretty easy to resell if you change your mind about pips later. And it obviously works well with Moristo sp.

Also btw the 2.0 super thick is insanely fast. It's good for fh hitters especially penhold. I couldn't deal with it on the bh. And afaik Mima only uses 1.8. So if it is fast enough for her ...

 

[folie]

Imo sweden extra will not be a good test for short pips. It's quite flexible and will be harder for you to control. Idk how much you want to spend. You could get a seven-ply wood like a clipper (or any clone fextra or whatever). Or if you have more money the mima ito carbon blade is on sale this week at tt11. That should be pretty easy to resell if you change your mind about pips later. And it obviously works well with Moristo sp.

Also btw the 2.0 super thick is insanely fast. It's good for fh hitters especially penhold. I couldn't deal with it on the bh. And afaik Mima only uses 1.8. So if it is fast enough for her ...

I didn't know that it's that fast. From what I've been reading around lately, sponge thickness doesn't make THAT much difference in speed as it does in how bouncy the rubber is, it's more about the composition of the rubber/sponge. But I may as well be wrong on that, I'm not even remotely good at the game, let alone having that much knowledge about equipment.

I couldn't find out much about the Mima Ito Carbon blade. If I don't like pips much, could it work like an upgrade to my Acoustic once I get better? All I know is that it's an Acoustic Carbon with Mima's branding.

 

[Short_Pimple]

Be aware that your contact point has to be even better with short pimples than with inverted rubber.

It is important to play the ball with a short and crisp contact in front of your body. Also the ball should be played at the highest point or a little earlier.

If you want to try aa cheap blade which works really good with short pimples, go for Palio TCT Blade. If you want to spent more money, Acoustik Carbon works great with pips. Flexible Blades like Sweden Extra are not good for short pips.

As pips you should take a do it all pip first, moristo is a little to bouncy and to fragile for my liking. Try 729 Friendship 802-40 with 2.0 oder thicker sponge. Or, if you want to spend more money, Victas Spinpips D1.

From there you can't change the pips to every direction. More speed, more spin or more disruption. Be aware that none rubber has all of the 3 characteristics.

i think short pips are about consistency and a strong blocking game to set up a winner shot. One amazing Ito Style Smash isn't worth anything if you block 4 Topspins over the table.

 

[Brs]

I couldn't find out much about the Mima Ito Carbon blade. If I don't like pips much, could it work like an upgrade to my Acoustic once I get better? All I know is that it's an Acoustic Carbon with Mima's branding.

Yes, it is an acoustic carbon with a purple handle. I wouldn't recommend the player-branded one except right now it's on sale. And if you like all-wood acoustic then the MI carbon or acoustic carbon could totally be an upgrade later. It feels similar, obvs faster, but the acoustic carbon is a great looping blade too.

 

[folie]

Be aware that your contact point has to be even better with short pimples than with inverted rubber.

It is important to play the ball with a short and crisp contact in front of your body. Also the ball should be played at the highest point or a little earlier.

If you want to try aa cheap blade which works really good with short pimples, go for Palio TCT Blade. If you want to spent more money, Acoustik Carbon works great with pips. Flexible Blades like Sweden Extra are not good for short pips.

As pips you should take a do it all pip first, moristo is a little to bouncy and to fragile for my liking. Try 729 Friendship 802-40 with 2.0 oder thicker sponge. Or, if you want to spend more money, Victas Spinpips D1.

From there you can't change the pips to every direction. More speed, more spin or more disruption. Be aware that none rubber has all of the 3 characteristics.

i think short pips are about consistency and a strong blocking game to set up a winner shot. One amazing Ito Style Smash isn't worth anything if you block 4 Topspins over the table.

If I order this stuff from tt11, I'll get a hefty discount, so I could get both a sheet of moristo and a sheet of victas for a good price. What thickness moristo do you think is more appropriate? User Brs was saying 2.0 is a bit too much for this rubber.

Also, from your experience, how would you compare these 3 rubbers?

 

[Lula]

Personally i think it is better if you are really good at punching and smashing with backhand and change to short pips for that reason, not that you are bad at looping.

There are better blades than Acoustic and Sweden extra. Try a 7 ply all wood or carbon blade.

Consider how you want to play and adjust grip and height on the pips accordingly.

Good luck.

 

[Short_Pimple]

A comparison between 802 40, Spinpips D1 and Moristo isn't fair to be honest 😉 but i can try to give a you some information:

802 40 should be the slowest one, have the lowest spin capabilities and have a little bounce to help with opening backspin or playing away from the table (what you should avoid with short pips, only for chopping this would be ok). You will notice that you can play 802 40 almost identical to inverted rubbers.

The Spinpips D1 should be harder than 802 40, has a little lower throw and a flatter curve, is more consistent in blocking but has less bounce than 802 40. It is great as a blocking and driving rubber, but not really good for topspins. You can open up, but might notice that you have to adjust your technique.

Moristo is soft, bouncy, has a lot of Tensor effect built in and is a lot faster at soft touch plays as 802 40 or D1. The tensor effect will provide a noticable better opening at spin, but control will decrease. It is the spinniest of these 3 rubbers, but also the most fragile and unpredictable one. My sheet lastet for 6 weeks befor the sponge was dead.

The question for the right sponge thickness is quite tricky. In generel you could say, if you want to spin get a thicker sponge, if you like to drive get a thinner one.

For moristo I would go for 2.0 or thicker, because it is so soft it will bottom out really fast and then you will lose control. 1.8mm is slower but bottoms out even faster.

If you want to learn a lot more about short pimples, read the threads from Kees over at ooakforum.com. He has some amazing tips and tricks that will help you a lot to unterstand what short pips are made for and what weaknesses they have.

https://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=4496

 

[folie]

A comparison between 802 40, Spinpips D1 and Moristo isn't fair to be honest 😉 but i can try to give a you some information:

802 40 should be the slowest one, have the lowest spin capabilities and have a little bounce to help with opening backspin or playing away from the table (what you should avoid with short pips, only for chopping this would be ok). You will notice that you can play 802 40 almost identical to inverted rubbers.

The Spinpips D1 should be harder than 802 40, has a little lower throw and a flatter curve, is more consistent in blocking but has less bounce than 802 40. It is great as a blocking and driving rubber, but not really good for topspins. You can open up, but might notice that you have to adjust your technique.

Moristo is soft, bouncy, has a lot of Tensor effect built in and is a lot faster at soft touch plays as 802 40 or D1. The tensor effect will provide a noticable better opening at spin, but control will decrease. It is the spinniest of these 3 rubbers, but also the most fragile and unpredictable one. My sheet lastet for 6 weeks befor the sponge was dead.

The question for the right sponge thickness is quite tricky. In generel you could say, if you want to spin get a thicker sponge, if you like to drive get a thinner one.

For moristo I would go for 2.0 or thicker, because it is so soft it will bottom out really fast and then you will lose control. 1.8mm is slower but bottoms out even faster.

If you want to learn a lot more about short pimples, read the threads from Kees over at ooakforum.com. He has some amazing tips and tricks that will help you a lot to unterstand what short pips are made for and what weaknesses they have.

https://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=4496

Great reply. Thank you. I'll start reading on those threads.
Bottom line, moristo is the t05 of SP, you need to get good before you use it?

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

I am at beginner level

Personally i think it is better if you are really good at punching and smashing with backhand and change to short pips for that reason, not that you are bad at looping.

There are better blades than Acoustic and Sweden extra. Try a 7 ply all wood or carbon blade.

Consider how you want to play and adjust grip and height on the pips accordingly.

Good luck.

Isn't it also better to switch to pips only after you are decently past the beginner stage?

 

[James Z]

Hello. I am interested in trying out short pips. I like Mima Ito's playstyle and I'd like to try and see if it would work out for me.

No it won't .
Mima Ito herself is using the wrong rubber.
Short pips while theoretically is the best strong side rubber, is the absolute worst weakside rubber, especially as a crutch to mask your weaknesses.
Assuming you are not over 60 years of age, take the advice Upside Down Carl gave you & try to reach your saturation points on your forehand and backhand with spinny inverted first.
Then come back & ask this same question an year two years etc later.

If you are over 60, switch to blocking type high aspect ratio super long pips like Avalox MO or Globe Mo Wang 3 on backhand if you play close to the table.

Sorry my comments are extremely brutal but even more honest
Or you can continue to waste years of your time with short pips on backhand fantasizing about Mima Ito (& Hou Yingchao(& Joo Sae Hyuk)&(Ma Long)))



.

 

[Lula]

I think it is very individual when people change to pips. I think in general inverted rubber is a better rubber because you can create spin and arc which give you safety. Therefore, it is better to change if you are really good at smashing and not bad at looping. I also believe it is wise to try to learn to loop with inverted rubber due to the ability to make an arc and who knows maybe you will get the best backhand loop in the world if you just give it some time?
Too many players change to pips and have no one to learn them how to play with it. Of course there we have youtube today but a big advantage if someone in IRL know how you should do the strokes with pips.

But try it! as long as it is fun and it keeps you playing 😀

 

[tropical]

Mima Ito herself is using the wrong rubber.

Really? Who are you to say that?

 

[Brs]

Really? Who are you to say that?

He is the same guy from the other recent short pips thread, just posting another new name.

 

[tropical]

He is the same guy from the other recent short pips thread, just posting another new name.

Oh .. I see. No further comment.

 

[folie]

Thanks for the concern, guys.
I'm never planning on going pro 😁.

I'm a hobbyist. I just want to have fun learning and playing.
There is no need to worry about me plateouing. I'm about 30, I'll likely never reach my "full potential" with how much time I have to spare.
But I do agree with you. Probably best to develop decent technique or discover specific strengths that benefit from this kind of gear before you decide to switch if you're serious about your game. But in that case, you'd likely have a decent coach to take advice from .

 

[merlin el mago]

@folie
you received good advice here, inverted have much gears than pips, also is more difficult to master because the lose of grip, short pips less difficult than long pips, the most difficult are long pips.

 

[James Z]

@folie
you received good advice here,

Not always. In forums 10 people will give 10 different confusng answers. usually right answers to the wrong question to start with.

@folie
you received good advice here, inverted have much gears than pips, also is more difficult to master because the lose of grip, short pips less difficult than long pips, the most difficult are long pips.

True . And Long pips is the second. So when you combine these two , you have the best dynamic range .
This is a general comment & not for Folie

@folie
also is more difficult to master because the lose of grip,

Did you mean to say short pips more difficult to master than spinny inverted beecause of loss of grip ?
I assume you did because spinny invrted is lot more grippy than short pips
If that is what you meant I totally agree

@folie
short pips less difficult than long pips,

Short pips is less difficult to learn than long pips only as a weakside rubber. But as a strong side rubber, short pips is much harder to master & that is why you hardly see any forehand (strong side) short pips players, especially shakehand. If you can do it like Mattias Falck & Liu Guoliang, strong side short pips and weakside spinny inverted can be one of the best styles. (Of course Johnny Huand was an even more rare exception as he used short pips both sides)..
TPH player & many time US Champion David Zhuang (I am told he was a schoolmate of Jiang Jiliang) has spinny inverted on his less used side & I think he used it only for serves but was quite useful for very spinny serves. Short pips forehand & long pips backhand is also a lethal style & I have seen a few players do this & but also may be suitable for older players (who never learned to loop & do not want to loop & cannot loop because of age, health or physical disabilities etc.)

@folie
the most difficult are long pips.

Yeah but long pips are far more lethal once you know how to use it (and even more lethal with spinny inverted or short pips on the strong side & with twiddling). But many players try to take the easy way out because, short pips is easier to learn (as a weakside rubber). In this context as a weakside rubber, short pips is a jack of all trades but a master of none & a middle of the road, lower risk appraoch. Long pips is higher risk with initially much lower rewards but much higher rewards once you know how to use them. So unless you are just hacking around and playing for pure fun and exercise, please do not waste your time with short pips on your weakside if you are a serious competitive player especially at lower amateur levels

On the spin continuum short pips is much closer to spiny inverted (in fact half way) than long pips. So from the range of spin capabilities & from an overall perspective, a spinny inverted and short pips racket only has half the potential of a spinny inverted & long pips racket. There are other severe limitations of short pips as weakside rubber (such as serve variations but worst is passive return of serve) as well in this combination in the hands of any amateur player

Keep in mind the duality principle in table tennis. Any rubber that is easier to use is also easier for your opponent to handle. Any rubber that produces heavy spin such as sticky inverted will also react equally violently to incoming spin. Any rubber that cannot generate spin (such as anti) will also react equally less to incoming spin though long pips works differently as it has different gears.

Also keep in mind that there are a whole bunch of players who correctly do want to use long pips on weakside but are so terrified of social rejection, humiliation & ridicule that they resort to short pips on weakside. So, in this context short pips is essentially a social rubber and not a functional rubber in the hands of a low-level amateur, very similar to how antispin like rubbers like Tenergy are social rubbers & just status symbols in the hands of low level amateurs.