Incorrect Service

[JHB]

Love the way they all whine when they get caught - except for Ma Long who just looks gobsmacked. As you've all said, they know the rules very well but they and/or their coaches choose to push it all the time. Not deserving of much sympathy, really. Believe me, it's even more fun when you regularly play with a lot of "social" players who a) don't know the rules or b) think the rules only apply in competitions or c) don't actually give a *#*# and can't understand why you do !

 

[ttmonster]

And to be very honest , I personally hated Ding Ning when she pulled that shyt in the world championship and then got sympathy votes from the ITTF / CNT .. or whatever ... she does not toss vertical on her inside out serve ... she does on her tomahawk ... and if an umpire decides to call her inside out serve she should have not complaints and continue to play the game with her tomahawk ... putting cotton wool over peoples eyes by whining "I only have two serves" really does not cut it for me ...

Love the way they all whine when they get caught - except for Ma Long who just looks gobsmacked. As you've all said, they know the rules very well but they and/or their coaches choose to push it all the time. Not deserving of much sympathy, really. Believe me, it's even more fun when you regularly play with a lot of "social" players who a) don't know the rules or b) think the rules only apply in competitions or c) don't actually give a *#*# and can't understand why you do !

 

[NextLevel]

Therefore, the lateral drift on that serve is at least 2 feet towards the BH side and we cannot measure if it goes 6 inches back away from the table or more because of the angle the serve is shown from. But all the pros do this because it helps make the ball, either hidden at some point, or so close to hidden on contact that it makes reading the serve much harder.

Since I am not a pro and I am not trying to hide my serves and I have this problem, let me offer a different explanation.

The optimal contact point for a serve is over the right hip close to the body. It is a golden triangle of sorts for your serve swings, especially if you are doing pendulum serves. If you start your serve anywhere except over this point on your body, you will often not toss the ball vertically, especially if your body moves during the motion. The simple reason is that your body wants to hit the ball over this point and if your toss did not start over this point, your body will make it end there. You as the tosser cannot feel the relative motion of the ball as your whole body is moving so you feel as if you have tossed the ball upwards but the movement of your body relative to the ball deceives you and you have really tossed the ball sideways. Therefore, it is almost impossible to do a legal serve if you do not start your toss over your right hip and yourupper body is not moving at all during the toss. You don't have to want to break the rules for it to happen. I find that many people who have never taped themselves get surprised and how their serves deviate from vertical when they actually see them. That is why I think that most of us have illegal tosses without knowing it and most people who act holier than thou have not seen themselves serve. Can be fixed but it is hard to fix something ingrained with psychological pitfalls.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

The optimal contact point for a serve is over the right hip close to the body.

This is an excellent post. Everything NextLevel has said is spot on.

I actually toss like this, or try to specifically because I know the benefits. Not just that it is against the rules. But that, the serve can be very close to hidden without quite hiding it. Or you can hide. But also because that area is the optimal contact point.

So, I did not mean to present the idea that I don’t do it. I do it. I know I do it. I try to do it. I can change it. I can make it so my serves are more visible by the angle of my body.

But, they are harder to read when they are very close to the borderline. Which also means a certain number of them end up being against the rules. [emoji2]

And when that is the contact point you get more leverage to spin the ball on the serve because it is the natural position for where the racket will be moving fastest.

My serves could use a lot of work though.

I just know I am going for borderline and more leverage.

And I am just reporting what the rules are and that pretty much all the pros toss in a way that is against the rules and could be called on almost every serve for something.

By the way, in the video of Wang Chen, if you watch, many of her tosses are coming down to the right of that spot NL is talking about near the hip. And when that happens, she moves towards the right so her hip is in the right position for her to serve.


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

 

[ttmonster]

There is no reason to disagree with what you have said here , because all of it is true ... my two cents ... ....but table tennis has a rule and its for organizations who govern to implement them ... human brain and body is very malleable and can surprise you with how adaptable it can be once the governing bodies start enforcing the rules properly and the coaches start realizing that if they don't find a solution to this their players who depend on serves are going to suffer ...

Since I am not a pro and I am not trying to hide my serves and I have this problem, let me offer a different explanation.

The optimal contact point for a serve is over the right hip close to the body. It is a golden triangle of sorts for your serve swings, especially if you are doing pendulum serves. If you start your serve anywhere except over this point on your body, you will often not toss the ball vertically, especially if your body moves during the motion. The simple reason is that your body wants to hit the ball over this point and if your toss did not start over this point, your body will make it end there. You as the tosser cannot feel the relative motion of the ball as your whole body is moving so you feel as if you have tossed the ball upwards but the movement of your body relative to the ball deceives you and you have really tossed the ball sideways. Therefore, it is almost impossible to do a legal serve if you do not start your toss over your right hip and yourupper body is not moving at all during the toss. You don't have to want to break the rules for it to happen. I find that many people who have never taped themselves get surprised and how their serves deviate from vertical when they actually see them. That is why I think that most of us have illegal tosses without knowing it and most people who act holier than thou have not seen themselves serve. Can be fixed but it is hard to fix something ingrained with psychological pitfalls.