Is there such a thing as too fast equipment at intermediate level?

[exotick]

I am speaking about level of play of about 1800 according to this video on youtube . My matches look like the clip starting at 5:45.

Used to play with Ovcharov Alc and then FZD ALC for almost 2 years, been going through 09c, 05, 80 and lately Zyre 03. Now got Viscaria Super ALC and put 2x Zyre on it (boosted lightly to increase softness and dwell) . Anyway... never thought i would like this setup but man.. setup is so linear and direct - i just love it. Never played with anything more direct and linear. I always know what to expect from it. Blade feels so much more solid on strong hits and blocks , it's addicting. At fast pace game it is amazing.

My playstyle.. After serve i either choose to loop kill with FH if i see receiver gives me predictable and attackable balls or try to go into fast pace game. My FH counter is above my level so people usually don't play diagonals , block is also very stable ( sometimes passive but mostly using sideswipes and place it to their forehand so then they have to attack and i am ready to counter it with FH). BH i open with normal speed and just go into rally, it's my weaker side, don't have the loop kill shot there and not intending to develop it too, more of a setup side. I do a lot of sideswipe motions, chopblocks, punches,topspin, redirecting balls to opponent's FH to make people miss or play into my FH. Truls is my fav players so basically my BH do all kinds of dirty stuff and i really enjoy doing them. Suprisingly Zyre 03 and vsalc have given me very good feel for that. I guess because of the linearity of the setup.

BH side I tried 80 - didn't like it - Passive blocks were better than Zyre 03 but sometimes the catapult and softness of the rubber made my redirected balls,chop blocks to go out.
Why i decided to try SALC and Zyre? Tried a friend's setup and just really liked how solid it feels and the extra speed. I am trying to make my shots more compact so that will help. Backhand open up felt easier ( i feel like the blade helps activate rubber comparing to normal alc ). Also want to finish most points quicker and don't go into long rallies because in the final matches of tournaments i feel drained and also rallies are where upcoming kids excell at, so not trying to beat them at their game. I am lucky to be able to play a lot - 5-6 days a week, i am In my early 30's. Mission basically is to remove long rallies and make my shots more compact which the setups speed should help with.

Now.. Kanak Jha and Lin Yun Ju come to mind when switching to Zyre they went to a slower blade.. But man .. punches with my FZD alc were nowhere near dangerous as with the VSALC . (Maybe softness of FZD compared to timo boll alc or viscaria comes into play) . Backhand open up also feels easier and somehow i feel the more mass of the blade helps activate rubber on both sides. Good placement blocks also come much faster back to opponents and they don't have time to make a 2nd strong loop and thats when i take over the rally.

Anyone brave enough to try this setup? Or any similar fast setup? How is it going? Obviously it's not a setup for spinny players But i find at this level spin never wins me a point anymore but rather speed, spin and placement.

 

[NextLevel]

I am speaking about level of play of about 1800 according to this video on youtube . My matches look like the clip starting at 5:45.

Used to play with Ovcharov Alc and then FZD ALC for almost 2 years, been going through 09c, 05, 80 and lately Zyre 03. Now got Viscaria Super ALC and put 2x Zyre on it (boosted lightly to increase softness and dwell) . Anyway... never thought i would like this setup but man.. setup is so linear and direct - i just love it. Never played with anything more direct and linear. I always know what to expect from it. Blade feels so much more solid on strong hits and blocks , it's addicting. At fast pace game it is amazing.

My playstyle.. After serve i either choose to loop kill with FH if i see receiver gives me predictable and attackable balls or try to go into fast pace game. My FH counter is above my level so people usually don't play diagonals , block is also very stable ( sometimes passive but mostly using sideswipes and place it to their forehand so then they have to attack and i am ready to counter it with FH). BH i open with normal speed and just go into rally, it's my weaker side, don't have the loop kill shot there and not intending to develop it too, more of a setup side. I do a lot of sideswipe motions, chopblocks, punches,topspin, redirecting balls to opponent's FH to make people miss or play into my FH. Truls is my fav players so basically my BH do all kinds of dirty stuff and i really enjoy doing them. Suprisingly Zyre 03 and vsalc have given me very good feel for that. I guess because of the linearity of the setup.

BH side I tried 80 - didn't like it - Passive blocks were better than Zyre 03 but sometimes the catapult and softness of the rubber made my redirected balls,chop blocks to go out.
Why i decided to try SALC and Zyre? Tried a friend's setup and just really liked how solid it feels and the extra speed. I am trying to make my shots more compact so that will help. Backhand open up felt easier ( i feel like the blade helps activate rubber comparing to normal alc ). Also want to finish most points quicker and don't go into long rallies because in the final matches of tournaments i feel drained and also rallies are where upcoming kids excell at, so not trying to beat them at their game. I am lucky to be able to play a lot - 5-6 days a week, i am In my early 30's. Mission basically is to remove long rallies and make my shots more compact which the setups speed should help with.

Now.. Kanak Jha and Lin Yun Ju come to mind when switching to Zyre they went to a slower blade.. But man .. punches with my FZD alc were nowhere near dangerous as with the VSALC . (Maybe softness of FZD compared to timo boll alc or viscaria comes into play) . Backhand open up also feels easier and somehow i feel the more mass of the blade helps activate rubber on both sides. Good placement blocks also come much faster back to opponents and they don't have time to make a 2nd strong loop and thats when i take over the rally.

Anyone brave enough to try this setup? Or any similar fast setup? How is it going? Obviously it's not a setup for spinny players But i find at this level spin never wins me a point anymore but rather speed, spin and placement.

Ultimately, personal preference and how you win (or like to win) points is more important in my view than theoretical views of equipment speed. It is more important that the equipment supports how you want to play than fit into some textbook of what you should use. I tried the setup you used, my backhand topspin vs backspin was a labor and I was too impatient to figure it out so I gave up on it faster than I usually do. But if that equipment works for you, great. And if it helps you win matches or play the way you want to you play, even better. The struggle usually begins when you need to beat certain players and the equipment is not letting you play the shot you need to play. That's usually when going too fast is a conversation if your coach/mentors think that is the road block or you think it is - and at that point, the devil is always in the details.

One example I remember was a friend of mine who fell in love with the Amultart - then started struggling massively with the medium pips penholder who wasn't giving him fast topspin balls to counter and needed to slow down the blade so he could initiate offense again. For a long time, this was why I liked slower blades as well.

 

[golden_son]

I am speaking about level of play of about 1800 according to this video on youtube . My matches look like the clip starting at 5:45.

Used to play with Ovcharov Alc and then FZD ALC for almost 2 years, been going through 09c, 05, 80 and lately Zyre 03. Now got Viscaria Super ALC and put 2x Zyre on it (boosted lightly to increase softness and dwell) . Anyway... never thought i would like this setup but man.. setup is so linear and direct - i just love it. Never played with anything more direct and linear. I always know what to expect from it. Blade feels so much more solid on strong hits and blocks , it's addicting. At fast pace game it is amazing.

My playstyle.. After serve i either choose to loop kill with FH if i see receiver gives me predictable and attackable balls or try to go into fast pace game. My FH counter is above my level so people usually don't play diagonals , block is also very stable ( sometimes passive but mostly using sideswipes and place it to their forehand so then they have to attack and i am ready to counter it with FH). BH i open with normal speed and just go into rally, it's my weaker side, don't have the loop kill shot there and not intending to develop it too, more of a setup side. I do a lot of sideswipe motions, chopblocks, punches,topspin, redirecting balls to opponent's FH to make people miss or play into my FH. Truls is my fav players so basically my BH do all kinds of dirty stuff and i really enjoy doing them. Suprisingly Zyre 03 and vsalc have given me very good feel for that. I guess because of the linearity of the setup.

BH side I tried 80 - didn't like it - Passive blocks were better than Zyre 03 but sometimes the catapult and softness of the rubber made my redirected balls,chop blocks to go out.
Why i decided to try SALC and Zyre? Tried a friend's setup and just really liked how solid it feels and the extra speed. I am trying to make my shots more compact so that will help. Backhand open up felt easier ( i feel like the blade helps activate rubber comparing to normal alc ). Also want to finish most points quicker and don't go into long rallies because in the final matches of tournaments i feel drained and also rallies are where upcoming kids excell at, so not trying to beat them at their game. I am lucky to be able to play a lot - 5-6 days a week, i am In my early 30's. Mission basically is to remove long rallies and make my shots more compact which the setups speed should help with.

Now.. Kanak Jha and Lin Yun Ju come to mind when switching to Zyre they went to a slower blade.. But man .. punches with my FZD alc were nowhere near dangerous as with the VSALC . (Maybe softness of FZD compared to timo boll alc or viscaria comes into play) . Backhand open up also feels easier and somehow i feel the more mass of the blade helps activate rubber on both sides. Good placement blocks also come much faster back to opponents and they don't have time to make a 2nd strong loop and thats when i take over the rally.

Anyone brave enough to try this setup? Or any similar fast setup? How is it going? Obviously it's not a setup for spinny players But i find at this level spin never wins me a point anymore but rather speed, spin and placement.

This is a valuable perspective because it does go against a lot of "conventional wisdom" that's bandied about, but it also in my mind reinforces the importance of an individual's playstyle and technique when it comes to what equipment actually supports their success. Granted, I would say 1800 is a pretty upper intermediate level; at this range you have most of your mechanics down, to where faster equipment should be less of a gamble and more of a preference.

Age may also be an overlooked factor in discussing if something is "too fast" for an intermediate. I'm in my late 30s (ugh) and have generally avoided the faster blades and rubbers because of that fear of overshooting and losing confidence in my shots. But my stamina is not what it was in my 20's and my "safe" balls are no longer threatening the people around my level. I hear a word like "linear" being applied to a monster rubber like Zyre and my ears perk way up. Were it a $50-60 rubber I'd probably have ordered one by now, but it's an expensive gamble to take; there's still that nagging fear that it's "too much".

 

[Airoc]

Ultimately, personal preference and how you win (or like to win) points is more important in my view than theoretical views of equipment speed. It is more important that the equipment supports how you want to play than fit into some textbook of what you should use.

Very well said.

 

[lodro]

Obviously it's not a setup for spinny players But i find at this level spin never wins me a point anymore but rather speed, spin and placement.

I think this could be a wrong attitude. If one cannot develop also the spin then yes indeed the unit is too fast

 

[exotick]

hear a word like "linear" being applied to a monster rubber like Zyre and my ears perk way up

It’s linear because it’s very hard. Even though speed is above 05 and 09c (probably at about 80) the control
And touch shots is just below 09c. Activates a bit harder than 05 but not by much and easier than 09c. Arc on medium power shots and punches is very direct and medium like. On strong shots on my FH it becomes like 09c’s high arc with a very pronounced late dip.

I think this could be a wrong attitude. If one cannot develop also the spin then yes indeed the unit is too fast

You misunderstood me. I have no problems with slow spin openings, in fact half my openings are with slowish openings especially against better opponents who don’t give predictable and easy balls. With this setup they arent as spinny as they would be with 09c and normal alc or slower blade but that doesnt matter for me because it won’t be a point winner , i just need it to land on the table as a setup shot.

One more important aspect as to why spin is even less important for me nowadays.. around my city we tend to play familiar opponents. Pretty much everyone knows everyone’s spin levels and that makes it even harder to use spin as a point winner. If i was going to new places every other week it would be a different story. And i believe most of us are in a similar boat.
That is why as of now speed i believe (or ease of speed ) is at a premium. But yeah, depends on individual, how fit, age, playstyle etc.

I really wonderwhy not many professional’s play with super alc. Yes, they manage to utilise body mechanics much better and power from the ground so don’t really need the extra speed. Maybe they use even harder rubbers than commercial ones? Maybe (surely) their rubbers are boosted 3-4 times prior to each tournament which gives them all the extra speed they need. For me though, who isnt going to boost every month and use a rubber probaly a bit after it’s best period some extra speed from the blade is welcomed.

 

[victormanriquey]

Ultimately, personal preference and how you win (or like to win) points is more important in my view than theoretical views of equipment speed. It is more important that the equipment supports how you want to play than fit into some textbook of what you should use.

This is a valuable perspective because it does go against a lot of "conventional wisdom" that's bandied about, but it also in my mind reinforces the importance of an individual's playstyle and technique when it comes to what equipment actually supports their success. Granted, I would say 1800 is a pretty upper intermediate level; at this range you have most of your mechanics down, to where faster equipment should be less of a gamble and more of a preference.

Age may also be an overlooked factor in discussing if something is "too fast" for an intermediate. I'm in my late 30s (ugh) and have generally avoided the faster blades and rubbers because of that fear of overshooting and losing confidence in my shots. But my stamina is not what it was in my 20's and my "safe" balls are no longer threatening the people around my level. I hear a word like "linear" being applied to a monster rubber like Zyre and my ears perk way up. Were it a $50-60 rubber I'd probably have ordered one by now, but it's an expensive gamble to take; there's still that nagging fear that it's "too much".

From a theoretical perspective, you would say that your setup is too fast and that Zyre doesn't need to be boosted at this level of play (plus it's not linear with SALC), but I very much agree that every person is a world on their own with playstyle, skills, gear taste, technique, etc. This is why I'm alaways against one-size-fits-all approaches, personalised advice is always better, I speak from experience helping others.

So as @NextLevel and @golden_son say here, if it works for you and your situation, then all good. Only if you ever feel like you need something else, then change. You (or your coach) will feel that better than anybody else

Lastly, the example of what @golden_son mentions around stamina is very true. We have players with important health limitations at the club, and we give them carbon fast setups (that I would normally not give to low intermediates) to compensate for technique that they will not be able to achieve due to their situation.

 

[Matteones]

It’s linear because it’s very hard. Even though speed is above 05 and 09c (probably at about 80) the control
And touch shots is just below 09c. Activates a bit harder than 05 but not by much and easier than 09c. Arc on medium power shots and punches is very direct and medium like. On strong shots on my FH it becomes like 09c’s high arc with a very pronounced late dip.


You misunderstood me. I have no problems with slow spin openings, in fact half my openings are with slowish openings especially against better opponents who don’t give predictable and easy balls. With this setup they arent as spinny as they would be with 09c and normal alc or slower blade but that doesnt matter for me because it won’t be a point winner , i just need it to land on the table as a setup shot.

One more important aspect as to why spin is even less important for me nowadays.. around my city we tend to play familiar opponents. Pretty much everyone knows everyone’s spin levels and that makes it even harder to use spin as a point winner. If i was going to new places every other week it would be a different story. And i believe most of us are in a similar boat.
That is why as of now speed i believe (or ease of speed ) is at a premium. But yeah, depends on individual, how fit, age, playstyle etc.

I really wonderwhy not many professional’s play with super alc. Yes, they manage to utilise body mechanics much better and power from the ground so don’t really need the extra speed. Maybe they use even harder rubbers than commercial ones? Maybe (surely) their rubbers are boosted 3-4 times prior to each tournament which gives them all the extra speed they need. For me though, who isnt going to boost every month and use a rubber probaly a bit after it’s best period some extra speed from the blade is welcomed.

I think there are some misconceptions there.

Spin is extremely important at all levels. And it doesn't really matter if you know everyone's spin level (likewise it doesn't matter if you know everyone's speed level). What matters is that different people have different styles, and while some people will win with speed, other people will win with spin, and that's true for all levels. You then choose your equipment according to your style and what wins matches for you.

Let's go with examples from the best players in the world, only a minority of them benefits from speed over spin:
Kanak Jha is a very good example of a player using a Viscaria SALC, and it really works for him, because he is (comparatively and relatively speaking of course) a counter-attacker who happily borrows and re-directs the other player's speed and spin.
Now take the entirety of the chinese man's squad, nobody uses SALC (as far as I know, I may be wrong on a little minority who does), because pretty much all of them produce their own speed and spin, and occasionally borrow it from the other player of course.

In my experience, a relative majority of players, at all levels, win with spin, and a relative minority of them win with speed (counter-attackers from close to the table and short pimples people mainly).

Viscaria SALC would absolutely suck for a player like me, as it does not produce the same spin quality that other more flexible blades do.

 

[canonFH]

There are two major schools of EJing.

- Optimize for your current level of play: most of the established pro's do this. This may not be conducive to improvements in playing level but will win you points

- Optimize for improvement in your play: This will inevitably demand more from you and may even result in you winning less points temporarily

For people in the second camp, there is absolutely a requirement for slower equipment, but you don't seem to fall in the second camp. You seem to have a fixed game, play with familiar opponents, and your focus is on winning points.

So for you, whatever makes you win the most points is the best equipment, speed/spin is irrelevant. For a 13 year old who's at your level, your choice of equipment would be terrible.

At pro levels, spin is king. No matter what kind of shot you hit, you expect the ball to come back. In fact, this is the primary difference between top 10 and say, top 200. The guy in top 10 just won't miss. Stiff blades make less spin, ergo, its easier to miss. There is a reason pros who generate great power from the body use slower setups.

 

[exotick]

From a theoretical perspective, you would say that your setup is too fast and that Zyre doesn't need to be boosted at this level of play (plus it's not linear with SALC

How come its not linear with SALC? Compared to normal alc? I boost it once just to soften it and increase feeling and control. I actually will probably like it better when speed improvement disappears in a month.

Now.. i never said spin isn’t important, i know spin rules the game. What i meant is i see better results when playing my game of fast pace(combined with tempo breaking chopblocks), finishing shots, punches and points finishing quicker which saves me stamina big time when playing tournaments. Yes about 80% of amateurs are into the spin game which makes it even better because i am in the minority so i can make them uncomfortable. Kids are the biggest threat to us adults around here and i am pretty sure playing the consistent spin game and rallies against them is a lost cause. Gotta do something different,something uncomfortable for them. Now that i think of it my game is a mix of Kanak and Truls ha. I do love holding the table and not giving people time for big swings.

About the different camps..

Don’t really agree because i haven’t exactly put tenergies to do the work for me. Zyre is fast but it needs activation therefore good technique. Even dignics for me is easier to play and provides more catapult. Totally agree kids shouldn’t use such fast equipment.

I wonder, what are your guys thoughts on some checkpoints on a setup being too fast for someone?

 

[Matteones]

How come its not linear with SALC? Compared to normal alc? I boost it once just to soften it and increase feeling and control. I actually will probably like it better when speed improvement disappears in a month.

Now.. i never said spin isn’t important, i know spin rules the game. What i meant is i see better results when playing my game of fast pace(combined with tempo breaking chopblocks), finishing shots, punches and points finishing quicker which saves me stamina big time when playing tournaments. Yes about 80% of amateurs are into the spin game which makes it even better because i am in the minority so i can make them uncomfortable. Kids are the biggest threat to us adults around here and i am pretty sure playing the consistent spin game and rallies against them is a lost cause. Gotta do something different,something uncomfortable for them. Now that i think of it my game is a mix of Kanak and Truls ha. I do love holding the table and not giving people time for big swings.

About the different camps..

Don’t really agree because i haven’t exactly put tenergies to do the work for me. Zyre is fast but it needs activation therefore good technique. Even dignics for me is easier to play and provides more catapult. Totally agree kids shouldn’t use such fast equipment.

I wonder, what are your guys thoughts on some checkpoints on a setup being too fast for someone?

I don't really know how Zyre play as I have only tried it for literally 30 seconds. But if your level is what you say it is, it is my opinion that most probably (remember I don't know you nor have I seen you playing) what this rubber gives you is comparatively less from what it takes from you.

Again from your words, I see some misconception about spin game and speed game as it seems that you think the "spin game" equals rallies and "speed game" equals ending the points faster, and this equivalence is just wrong. The masters of 3rd ball attacks and ending points quickly will always be the masters of spin and deception, speed being the last component of this.

From what you say, it seems to me that you play by trying to break the other player's rhythm, and to do this you vary both speed and spin of your shots (not to talk about placement). To play this game, I argue, you do not need cannon rubbers on a cannon blade, and I would expand on this that said cannon rubbers and blades actually make it marginally harder for you in actual game play.

This said, it is marginal, and you play to win whilst having fun (I imagine).
I also argue that being enthusiastic about playing, even if the reason is using material which is less than optimal for your abilities, actually helps you so much in everything that it greatly outweighs the negative, so what the heck, use that cannon.

 

[andymagata]

There are two major schools of EJing.

- Optimize for your current level of play: most of the established pro's do this. This may not be conducive to improvements in playing level but will win you points

- Optimize for improvement in your play: This will inevitably demand more from you and may even result in you winning less points temporarily

For people in the second camp, there is absolutely a requirement for slower equipment, but you don't seem to fall in the second camp. You seem to have a fixed game, play with familiar opponents, and your focus is on winning points.

So for you, whatever makes you win the most points is the best equipment, speed/spin is irrelevant. For a 13 year old who's at your level, your choice of equipment would be terrible.

At pro levels, spin is king. No matter what kind of shot you hit, you expect the ball to come back. In fact, this is the primary difference between top 10 and say, top 200. The guy in top 10 just won't miss. Stiff blades make less spin, ergo, its easier to miss. There is a reason pros who generate great power from the body use slower setups.

I agree, but not totally. The third school of EJing might be just as big on a grass root level, for the fun of it! This type of EJing might make you a better player because your understanding of how materials and conditions effect your play and oppo's play skyrocket. This type might be driven by a wish to find what gives you a good feeling or just be for the fun of trying stuff.

 

[Lazer]

I agree, but not totally. The third school of EJing might be just as big on a grass root level, for the fun of it! This type of EJing might make you a better player because your understanding of how materials and conditions effect your play and oppo's play skyrocket. This type might be driven by a wish to find what gives you a good feeling or just be for the fun of trying stuff.

That's me in a nut shell...

Cheers
L-zr

 

[kapahoo]

I'm also school three. And my results suffer from it. But I always long for the next training session!

 

[NextLevel]

I think this could be a wrong attitude. If one cannot develop also the spin then yes indeed the unit is too fast

Zyre is spinny, but it is more spinny forward than spinny high arc on many shots.

As an old.man I used to hit with said, everyone uses spin including the short pips players. So you have to understand ehat people are saying when thry talk about you not being a spin player.

 

[Dr Evil]

I think your equipment may be too fast if you can't reliably keep pushes short, or you have trouble with half-long serves even if you read the spin correctly, or you have poor feel when flipping, or heavy serves force you into one safe return with no variety.

 

[dingyibvs]

Zyre is spinny, but it is more spinny forward than spinny high arc on many shots.

As an old.man I used to hit with said, everyone uses spin including the short pips players. So you have to understand ehat people are saying when thry talk about you not being a spin player.

Yes, I believe Zyre is indeed very spinny. My issue with Zyre is that it just doesn't give you a lot of feedback. You don't really get that feeling of slinging the ball forward with Zyre, it kind of just bounces off.

Two other points:

1) I agree with @canonFH re: optimizing for current performance vs improvement, but I disagree with speed being the deciding factor. I believe that feedback is the most critical factor for optimizing for improvement. The equipment needs to be demanding in the sense that it lets you know by hand feel when you're doing a shot with poor technique, but not so demanding that you cannot get any reps with the correct technique before having to pick up the ball. From my personal experience, the H5/968 variants are very good for this purpose. They're hard to hit into, but when you hit into it you have a great catapult feel. The excellent contrast between poor technique vs good technique is very helpful here. When I tried the W968/Q968 with H3 on the BH however, it was so demanding that I could not get any reps in training, and I had to switch to D09c in order to at least get some semblance of continuity.

2) When people talk about speed vs. spin, they really need to see some hard numbers first. A common shock for everyone who uses Spinsight for the first time is the realization that shots that they think are loaded with spin, you know the slower, brush loops, actually aren't any spinnier. They're just slow. My regular training partner tried it the first time this past week (he was away from TT for ~6 months), for example, and he usually does pretty brushy loops. His heaviest brushy loops top out at ~130 rps with speed ~35 kph. When he tried to loop by hitting into the blade more, making a nice cracking sound in his Viscaria/H3, his loops remain topped out at ~130 rps, but the speed goes to ~50 kph. So unless you're just punching/slapping the ball, you're probably not losing any spin by going for a faster shot.

 

[NextLevel]

Yes, I believe Zyre is indeed very spinny. My issue with Zyre is that it just doesn't give you a lot of feedback. You don't really get that feeling of slinging the ball forward with Zyre, it kind of just bounces off.

Two other points:

1) I agree with @canonFH re: optimizing for current performance vs improvement, but I disagree with speed being the deciding factor. I believe that feedback is the most critical factor for optimizing for improvement. The equipment needs to be demanding in the sense that it lets you know by hand feel when you're doing a shot with poor technique, but not so demanding that you cannot get any reps with the correct technique before having to pick up the ball. From my personal experience, the H5/968 variants are very good for this purpose. They're hard to hit into, but when you hit into it you have a great catapult feel. The excellent contrast between poor technique vs good technique is very helpful here. When I tried the W968/Q968 with H3 on the BH however, it was so demanding that I could not get any reps in training, and I had to switch to D09c in order to at least get some semblance of continuity.

2) When people talk about speed vs. spin, they really need to see some hard numbers first. A common shock for everyone who uses Spinsight for the first time is the realization that shots that they think are loaded with spin, you know the slower, brush loops, actually aren't any spinnier. They're just slow. My regular training partner tried it the first time this past week (he was away from TT for ~6 months), for example, and he usually does pretty brushy loops. His heaviest brushy loops top out at ~130 rps with speed ~35 kph. When he tried to loop by hitting into the blade more, making a nice cracking sound in his Viscaria/H3, his loops remain topped out at ~130 rps, but the speed goes to ~50 kph. So unless you're just punching/slapping the ball, you're probably not losing any spin by going for a faster shot.

The Spinsight analysis is true from a physics standpoint, but it misses some of the practical issues involved. That he can get a brushy loop at 130 rps is impressive (though probably against backspin, whichI haven't tried), but the advantage of spinny loops is precisely that they don't have speed so the angle of incidence after hitting the table messes up the timing of the blocker.

The feedback element is very spot on, but I think it also has a few other dimensions that I cannot discuss because I don't fully understand them and because they would take too long to discuss. I am a big fan of measuring blade frequency because it helps me know when a blade is going to be close to unplayable (the exception have been Hinoki blades). Usually, once a blade goes about 1400 in frequency, and even sometimes 1300 sometimes. I know I will struggle to use it even if I can use it and probably will need to use it with sticky rubbers.

I also don't think it is all about looping but about equipment that enables a wide range of shots. Pushing and blocking especially to piggyback on Dr Evil. That's why the traditional advice is still to get the fastest blade you can (short) push and block with (aka control).

 

[lodro]

It’s linear because it’s very hard. Even though speed is above 05 and 09c (probably at about 80) the control
And touch shots is just below 09c. Activates a bit harder than 05 but not by much and easier than 09c. Arc on medium power shots and punches is very direct and medium like. On strong shots on my FH it becomes like 09c’s high arc with a very pronounced late dip.


You misunderstood me. I have no problems with slow spin openings, in fact half my openings are with slowish openings especially against better opponents who don’t give predictable and easy balls. With this setup they arent as spinny as they would be with 09c and normal alc or slower blade but that doesnt matter for me because it won’t be a point winner , i just need it to land on the table as a setup shot.

One more important aspect as to why spin is even less important for me nowadays.. around my city we tend to play familiar opponents. Pretty much everyone knows everyone’s spin levels and that makes it even harder to use spin as a point winner. If i was going to new places every other week it would be a different story. And i believe most of us are in a similar boat.
That is why as of now speed i believe (or ease of speed ) is at a premium. But yeah, depends on individual, how fit, age, playstyle etc.

I really wonderwhy not many professional’s play with super alc. Yes, they manage to utilise body mechanics much better and power from the ground so don’t really need the extra speed. Maybe they use even harder rubbers than commercial ones? Maybe (surely) their rubbers are boosted 3-4 times prior to each tournament which gives them all the extra speed they need. For me though, who isnt going to boost every month and use a rubber probaly a bit after it’s best period some extra speed from the blade is welcomed.

Sorry i was more thinking about this:
A fast-rotating ball sinks or curves downward due to the
Magnus effect, where topspin (forward rotation) causes air to move faster underneath, reducing pressure below and forcing the ball down. T

 

[MORTtheORT]

It comes down to you. Everyone deals with speed and spin differently.

I generate lots of speed and spin myself (H3 background) and just recently went to the T05...everyone said the catapult speed effect with my game wouldn't work......just won my first tournament for the year with the new setup and I only made the change in mid Jan.

I think it is the beauty and the curse of Table Tennis...finding that gold egg setup is a lifelong journey.