ITTF/WTT problems reported from players

[pongfugrasshopper]

Steve Dainton's comment.

WTT世界乒联回应阿鲁纳言论 处罚有依据奖金发放中
https://www.sohu.com/a/769658694_114977

Steve doesn't explain *what* was communicated to the players at the Singapore Smash as to *why* it takes so long to get their money. In Aruna's case, not getting paid for events that took place in January is unacceptable, and I can fully understand why he would be upset. This is not the way it should work.

 

[Metaxa]

Steve doesn't explain *what* was communicated to the players at the Singapore Smash as to *why* it takes so long to get their money. In Aruna's case, not getting paid for events that took place in January is unacceptable, and I can fully understand why he would be upset. This is not the way it should work.

How do you think it works in real business? If you find someone you get your invoice paid from within 30 days, you really have to pamper that customer and try to retain them. In many industries, this should be the standard rule but few stick to it. Good reliable partners are usually in Germany or Switzerland.
All the rest will try to bring the payment period to 60 or 90 days.

 

[kindof99]

Part of the long due prizes were paid, but the rest still not

 

[Matt Hetherington]

He cannot compare table tennis to other sports, soccer players may have a world cup commitment and continental once a year or something - but WTT events are across the whole calendar and forcing players to compete is absurd. The athletes have no freedom of choice here, they are being forced to choose between WTT and the club system. Either WTT fails or the club system across Europe will be decimated, how is any of this good for the sport it’s appalling.

 

[NextLevel]

He cannot compare table tennis to other sports, soccer players may have a world cup commitment and continental once a year or something - but WTT events are across the whole calendar and forcing players to compete is absurd. The athletes have no freedom of choice here, they are being forced to choose between WTT and the club system. Either WTT fails or the club system across Europe will be decimated, how is any of this good for the sport it’s appalling.

Someone else pointing out that they were happy that Dang and Kallberg lost in Incheon so they could be back in time for German league matches on Sunday. I can't believe that WTT is clueless about what they are doing, there essems to be some deliberate incompetence driving this.

 

[NextLevel]

How do you think it works in real business? If you find someone you get your invoice paid from within 30 days, you really have to pamper that customer and try to retain them. In many industries, this should be the standard rule but few stick to it. Good reliable partners are usually in Germany or Switzerland.
All the rest will try to bring the payment period to 60 or 90 days.

In real business, unless you are dealing with a corrupt government or a mafia, you are not dealing with a party that has the right to penalize you and not pay you.

 

[Trevize84]

How do you think it works in real business? If you find someone you get your invoice paid from within 30 days, you really have to pamper that customer and try to retain them. In many industries, this should be the standard rule but few stick to it. Good reliable partners are usually in Germany or Switzerland.
All the rest will try to bring the payment period to 60 or 90 days.

In Italy I've seen companies going default despites they had several billions of unpaid credits from governments, 6+ months late. I used to work for a IT consulting company that was late at paying salaries because they had no liquidity at some stage. They had a business of 40 billions euro that year, 5 of those were unpaid credits from governament after 6 months. If WTT pays at 180 days it's premium level customer here 🤣

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

He cannot compare table tennis to other sports, soccer players may have a world cup commitment and continental once a year or something - but WTT events are across the whole calendar and forcing players to compete is absurd. The athletes have no freedom of choice here, they are being forced to choose between WTT and the club system. Either WTT fails or the club system across Europe will be decimated, how is any of this good for the sport it’s appalling.

soccer world cup is once every 4 years.
with build up to it (qualifiers), give and take, every 2 years there is some "action".
TT is over 12 events per year, and that doesn't include OG and continental games

What amazes me is that ITTF event (world champ), WTT has say over the penalty

soccer players fly private or first class, TT in economy class
not a good comparison

 

[Metaxa]

In Italy I've seen companies going default despites they had several billions of unpaid credits from governments, 6+ months late. I used to work for a IT consulting company that was late at paying salaries because they had no liquidity at some stage. They had a business of 40 billions euro that year, 5 of those were unpaid credits from governament after 6 months. If WTT pays at 180 days it's premium level customer here 🤣

Sounds familiar to me. Is so in many countries, not just Italy. If everyone complied, there would be far fewer failures. As I wrote above, if you have companies or people in your customer base who pay your invoices within 30 days of their due date, you should be very happy and these are the best customers to work with and you should spoil them. If you can afford it you may drop all others who make payments on 60 , 90 or 120 days (government) and send them up a tree.

 

[Johnniedarko]

I'm so glad everyone sticking up for poor old ITTF.

• Need to show documents that you're pregnant or else get fined? Of course, because you are their employee and it's in the contract.
• Need to drop your league games to travel around the world? Of course, you can also choose to not do international tournaments at all.
• Need to wait an undeterminate amount of time to get paid? Of course, because that's how it goes in the real business world.

Each of these examples, in isolation, are brushed off with a bit of a defeatist attitude. But this doesn't do justice to the sum of these examples, which is IMO unheard of in any real world* or business situation.

The examples you guys bring up is about the late payment aspect. But you are as a contractor are still free to refuse a contract and take a different one if you want. You keep your autonomy.

An different comparison would be partaking in a TV gameshow (because it is). If we look at worst of the worst, we see things as Netflix 'dating' shows. There 20 young people are basically held hostage on a remote island for 3 weeks without contact to the outside world. They sign away their autonomy. But they do get paid in time, with no performance requirement (and quite well too IMO).

ITTF is here taking away players autonomy AND not paying them, and you are all saying they should be happy because in Italy and Greece nobody pays on time.

*Sure there are regions where these combined unethical practices are still the norm. I'm not going to name them.

 

[vossi39]

Someone else pointing out that they were happy that Dang and Kallberg lost in Incheon so they could be back in time for German league matches on Sunday. I can't believe that WTT is clueless about what they are doing, there essems to be some deliberate incompetence driving this.

Even worse. Based on their "contract" players are obliged to register they playing schedules (WTT and non-WTT) twice a year. Enough time for WTT to change their schedules to provide as much damage to non-WTT events as possible.
The event in question was not German, but was the ETTU Mens Team Championship Finals which were scheduled way before the Icheon Event and still WTT refused to change the schedule, nor were the players in question (Dang, Kallberg, Jorgic, Moregarth, Franziska, Aruna, Boll) excempted from participation. The event had around 2500 paying visitors (sure much more than the WTT events).

 

[Metaxa]

Even worse. Based on their "contract" players are obliged to register they playing schedules (WTT and non-WTT) twice a year. Enough time for WTT to change their schedules to provide as much damage to non-WTT events as possible.
The event in question was not German, but was the ETTU Mens Team Championship Finals which were scheduled way before the Icheon Event and still WTT refused to change the schedule, nor were the players in question (Dang, Kallberg, Jorgic, Moregarth, Franziska, Aruna, Boll) excempted from participation. The event had around 2500 paying visitors (sure much more than the WTT events).

There is something thoroughly wrong with our table tennis, especially its image to the general public. Despite, smaller balls, faster rubbers, attacking momentum, technical equipment, a You Tube channel, Instagram, etc....

Indeed, interest in WTT is deplorably low, more audience comes to watch an ETTU event, though 2500 people is still laughably low too.
If we look at darts 🎯 in Great Britain, every week for 16 weeks, 8 of the best players show up and we can watch up to 7 matches every night. (¼ - ½ - final).
Every week, 10,000 to 15,000 people play there in front of an unprecedented atmosphere.

Maybe we should go down that road.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I'm so glad everyone sticking up for poor old ITTF.

i'm not, it is a joke.
All players should go on strike, so all the ITTF fan boys and girls can have not TT to watch.
they can just watch all those replays on ITTF youtube channel for the next while
🤣

ITTF is here taking away players autonomy AND not paying them, and you are all saying they should be happy because in Italy and Greece nobody pays on time.

I'm not sure about Italy, but I understand the Greek economy is dead or dying or something to that.
maybe that is why people can't pay on time - since, there is a huge problem and over time, people may think "wrong" is normal.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

There is something thoroughly wrong with our table tennis, especially its image to the general public. Despite, smaller balls, faster rubbers, attacking momentum, technical equipment, a You Tube channel, Instagram, etc....

Indeed, interest in WTT is deplorably low, more audience comes to watch an ETTU event, though 2500 people is still laughably low too.
If we look at darts 🎯 in Great Britain, every week for 16 weeks, 8 of the best players show up and we can watch up to 7 matches every night. (¼ - ½ - final).
Every week, 10,000 to 15,000 people play there in front of an unprecedented atmosphere.

Maybe we should go down that road.

if you willing to stand with the players, then you can start asking questions
if the Money from WTT doesn't go the players, or technology, where does it go to?

More and more people within and outside need to talk up. Eventually the pressure will bring forward truth.

Dart is peanuts compared to table tennis in terms of population behind it.
The problem is not the sport, but the people running it.

Matt posted a very fair question - MLTT is probably the biggest thing that has happened to table tennis in USA for a long time, but USATT does not cover it or even talk about it. There is a big wall, because MLTT isn't part of USATT, so there is a big divide.
To me, that is a joke.
USATT (and any national federation) needs to befriend any organization under or not under their umbrella, as long as table tennis is concerned. This is similar to public and private, you can't say gov only cares for public, as it needs private entities too. MLTT is private, and USATT is public. Public should be serving both private and public.

I wonder if the Greek federation copies USATT or is it worse?

 

[Metaxa]

if you willing to stand with the players, then you can start asking questions
if the Money from WTT doesn't go the players, or technology, where does it go to?

More and more people within and outside need to talk up. Eventually the pressure will bring forward truth.

Dart is peanuts compared to table tennis in terms of population behind it.
The problem is not the sport, but the people running it.

Matt posted a very fair question - MLTT is probably the biggest thing that has happened to table tennis in USA for a long time, but USATT does not cover it or even talk about it. There is a big wall, because MLTT isn't part of USATT, so there is a big divide.
To me, that is a joke.
USATT (and any national federation) needs to befriend any organization under or not under their umbrella, as long as table tennis is concerned. This is similar to public and private, you can't say gov only cares for public, as it needs private entities too. MLTT is private, and USATT is public. Public should be serving both private and public.

I wonder if the Greek federation copies USATT or is it worse?

Indeed, Darts absolutely cannot be compared in numbers although its popularity has increased greatly in recent years in the rest of Western Europe. Turns out, though, that when it is well (managed) you can reach a lot of people and pay players deftly and correctly.

I am not (yet) that familiar with Greek table tennis. We have been living here for less than three years but I must say that the HTTF is doing its best to promote table tennis despite it not being at all easy here because of the many widespread islands to organise one thing and another such as competition.
I had read somewhere that there are about 8,000 players in Greece out of a population of 10.5 million. In my native country, there are also about 9000 active players now out of a population of 11.5 million.

 

[_ak]

Some retiring player should just sue them so revoking international license won't be a threat any more.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

recap:
ITTF used PWL and reward Groth as group winner.

Then they realized that there shouldn't be PWL and the whole recording of PWL was pointless.
Then removed PWL from the website results section and rewarded Harimoto as the group winner

 

[backspacer]

Isn't there an athletes committee that can deal with this stuff?

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Isn't there an athletes committee that can deal with this stuff?

yes there is.
at AGM, I have read the minutes.
to me, I think you need a lot of more rebel, until people take AC serious in AGM

maybe even form unions or players association, that can deal with matters outside of AGM (AGM is once a year...)