LP 0.7mm or OX, which is easier to control?

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So what is the benefit of the sponge?
i think the sponge allows for more possibilities of actively creating mechanical friction and changing up the spin. So ppl with good technique (at least from what I've seen) can selectively control how much they want to reverse the spin (or kill the spin completely).
 
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says I like to put heavy topspin on the ball
says I like to put heavy topspin on the ball
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i think the sponge allows for more possibilities of actively creating mechanical friction and changing up the spin. So ppl with good technique (at least from what I've seen) can selectively control how much they want to reverse the spin (or kill the spin completely).
I think it was Chen Weixing that said P1 in 0.5 has the perfect combo for spin manipulation and spin continuation for the celluloid ball, but JSH was playing P1 and Dtecs in 1.6 just for the spin capacity when playing short at the table. But any long pip in 1.6 has almost zero passive reversal qualities unless you hit super lightly
 
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Explain that to me?

Isnt the most spin reversal the more tricky one?
long pips doesn't reverse spin like inverted rubber does.

because ox doesn't even have a sponge to dampen the spin.

so for example, if you put a lot of underspin on the ball and long pips user pushes back, you get back pretty much the spin you put on the ball, but because the direction of travel of the ball changes, you refer to the spin as topspin, but the spin wasn't reversed, just the direction of travel of the ball.

probably because nowadays inverted rubber is by far the most popular, some people started to refer to spin reversing rubbers(=inverted rubbers) as non reversing and to non reversing rubbers as reversing. it's funny, but confusing.
 
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long pips doesn't reverse spin like inverted rubber does.

because ox doesn't even have a sponge to dampen the spin.

so for example, if you put a lot of underspin on the ball and long pips user pushes back, you get back pretty much the spin you put on the ball, but because the direction of travel of the ball changes, you refer to the spin as topspin, but the spin wasn't reversed, just the direction of travel of the ball.

probably because nowadays inverted rubber is by far the most popular, some people started to refer to spin reversing rubbers(=inverted rubbers) as non reversing and to non reversing rubbers as reversing. it's funny, but confusing.
So high spin reversal LP basically means they have less friction?

Is this considered good or bad?
 
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So high spin reversal LP basically means they have less friction?

Is this considered good or bad?
what? no. less friction correlates with less spin "reversal".

the most important reason ppl play long pips is that they don't reverse spin.
just forget about "reversal" since it seems to be confusing. let's replace it with countering.

lp ox has basically no spin countering.
lp sandwich has low spin countering.

this means that if you put 5 units of underspin on the ball, lp ox opponent pushes back, you get 3-5 units of topspin back. for lp sandwich, the spin is countered more, let's say, you'll get back 2-4 units of topspin back, but still not reversed. if spin would be reversed, you would get underspin back like you do from inverted rubbers(a.k.a. normal rubbers).
 
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what? no. less friction correlates with less spin "reversal".

the most important reason ppl play long pips is that they don't reverse spin.
just forget about "reversal" since it seems to be confusing. let's replace it with countering.

lp ox has basically no spin countering.
lp sandwich has low spin countering.

this means that if you put 5 units of underspin on the ball, lp ox opponent pushes back, you get 3-5 units of topspin back. for lp sandwich, the spin is countered more, let's say, you'll get back 2-4 units of topspin back, but still not reversed. if spin would be reversed, you would get underspin back like you do from inverted rubbers(a.k.a. normal rubbers).
Right. So in your example, I would imagine that less countering is desirable because it is more confusing for opponent.

But for heavy choppers that impart more spin, some countering is helpful.
 
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Right. So in your example, I would imagine that less countering is desirable because it is more confusing for opponent.

But for heavy choppers that impart more spin, some countering is helpful.
yes. less spin countering is more confusing for us plebs because the ball behaves opposite to our mental model that we've learned about how the ball should behave while playing inverted vs inverted.

but ppl who opt to use long pips pay the price for it, it's a shit rubber with which you can't do shit besides confuse amateurs. ox especially so. it forces you to be defensive which might be fun, but is also disadvantageous.
 
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not my but explain very good about pips

High reversal/low grip pips:
These long pips have minimal grip on the ball, so reverse the spin of a ball sent at them WITH ENOUGH SPIN. They have stiff pips, so the spin sent at them is retained and therefore reversed, from the point of view of the opponent. So a heavy topspin ball is sent back with heavy backspin, but these pips have difficulty with playing spin against no spin balls. They are difficult and deceptive to play against for an opponent and are considered by some to be ‘junk rubbers’. They are generally used in OX (no sponge) for at the table chop blocking, but some people use them for chopping. You will not have much control over the spin though. They are probably quite difficult to use to chop against very skilled opponents and further away from the table, because you have less control over the rubber. Pros don’t use them. Eg include Spinlord Dornenglanz

Medium reversal/medium grip pips:
These long pips have some grip, but also reverse the spin a decent amount, so you can vary the spin between backspin, backspin-sidespin and no spin and have some spin reversal. These are the most used long pimples for chopping and can create the most total backspin out of all long pips but only have medium grip. They are better for chopping during the rally than in the opening chop, because they with have more spin to reverse as the rally goes on. Grippier long pips are better for the first chop, when the ball needs to be spun by the chopper because there is less spin already on the ball.
Eg DHS Cloud and Fog 3, TSP Curl P1R (more grip than C&F3, I have heard), Butterfly Feint Long 2, Yinhe Neptune (considered a cheap alternative to the P1R) and Joola Octopus (a rubber Chen Weixing made so he could continue to essentially play with the P1R, without violating his Joola sponsorship contract)

High grip/low reversal long pips:
These pips have a small amount of spin reversal (like all long pips) but have the highest grip of all long pips, so you can create more of your own spin with these, if that makes sense. So these are best if you want the control and impact absorption of long pips, but want to create your own spin. They are typically better for chopping earlier in the rally, when high grip is needed because there is less spin to reverse, better than lower grip/higher reversal pips and for attacking (because of their good control and soft sponge). They are a rare kind of long pips and have a very soft sponge, so are quite slow and not for everybody. Eg TSP Curl P4 or Butterfly Feint Long 3

Short Pips:
Chopping short pips have no spin reversal and much more grip than long pips, so are much better for varying the spin than long pips. They can also deal well with no spin balls, because a lot of spin can be generated by the player and they are better at flat hitting than most long pips. They don’t have the impact absorption and chopping control of long pips, so are a significant challenge to chop with. However, there are more professional short pip choppers than long pip choppers, because of their attacking ability and spin variation ability and even Joo Se Hyuk, a chopping legend, has suggested in an interview that he would play with short pips if he began his career again, because they are better for creating and varying your own spin than long pips. Make sure you get a slower or chopping short pip, high tension attacking short pips are far too fast. Most pro choppers and a lot of female choppers now use short pips.
Eg include TSP Super Spinpips Chop 2 and 729 802
 
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