Misreading Spin of Service

[ML fan]

Misreading Spin of Service


Help me with your technique on how to read the type of spin on service. I always misread the spin as backspin if the racket angle is for backspin but sometimes, no spin or topspin with a sidespin. I am referring to a fastball serve on bh side.


Sometimes I am distracted and not focusing on contact and difficult for me to read through ball movement since it is fast ball on bh side. I panick on my receiving.

 

[Lazer]

Its not easy, my biggest weakness… Sidespin is usually straight forward top/down or no spin in a masked serve…
I am trying to see the racket angle and the motion at contact… It gets a little easier if you follow the ball trajectory but then it’s usually too late to do snyhthing about it for me so I need to know before the ball hits my end of the table…

Cheers
L-zr

 

[Tyce]

Start by anticipating the serve to be long and fast. If it slows down towards you, it would look like it's hovering a bit, expect backspin and step in towards the table when needed.

Don't start by planning for a push and end up having to step backwards to get a drive, flip or loop. It throws you off balance, and chances are you end up with a half push and return a high ball.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

This is my biggest weakness as well and unfortunately I don’t think there is any easy fix.

But over the last month thinking hard about some solutions and how to do better:

- we need to wait more to see the ball. Don’t anticipate. I realize that sometimes I started moving even slightly BEFORE the opponent hits the ball. So wait for it. It’s even more true when it’s a fast serve. With sidespin it can deviate. It’s a natural reaction to fear being late to the ball but we should stay calm and not make a move before getting enough information. We lose perhaps 0.1s of reaction time but our reaction will be 10x better

- Also we must be very low to see the ball height for timing and try to watch it until we hit the ball. I realize my body tends to go up as I step in to the ball. I would then also lose sight of the ball.

- when in doubt assume it’s topspin or knuckle not underspin, so don’t put the racket and lift the ball when pushing. The reason is at our lower levels players struggle to make downspin and it’s more obvious when they do. The ball will be usually slower also and you have more time to react if you thought It would be knuckle or topspin initially.

- there are several receives which are to some extent agnostic about the incoming spin. They may not be the best receives but at least if you can put the ball safely on the table, still better than giving away the point .

 

[Lazer]

This is my biggest weakness as well and unfortunately I don’t think there is any easy fix.

But over the last month thinking hard about some solutions and how to do better:

- we need to wait more to see the ball. Don’t anticipate. I realize that sometimes I started moving even slightly BEFORE the opponent hits the ball. So wait for it. It’s even more true when it’s a fast serve. With sidespin it can deviate. It’s a natural reaction to fear being late to the ball but we should stay calm and not make a move before getting enough information. We lose perhaps 0.1s of reaction time but our reaction will be 10x better

- Also we must be very low to see the ball height for timing and try to watch it until we hit the ball. I realize my body tends to go up as I step in to the ball. I would then also lose sight of the ball.

- when in doubt assume it’s topspin or knuckle not underspin, so don’t put the racket and lift the ball when pushing. The reason is at our lower levels players struggle to make downspin and it’s more obvious when they do. The ball will be usually slower also and you have more time to react if you thought It would be knuckle or topspin initially.

- there are several receives which are to some extent agnostic about the incoming spin. They may not be the best receives but at least if you can put the ball safely on the table, still better than giving away the point .

I like the idea of falling back to topspin when in doubt. That’s actually where I make most mistakes. Assuming underspin when it’s topspin…

Cheers
L-zr

 

[blahness]

If you borrow the incoming ball's energy to make a shorter BH slow spinny loop which lands in the middle of the table, even if you misread it a bit, it will either go lower/shorter if it had more backspin and higher/longer if it had less backspin. But if you have too much of a misread then you're screwed anyway, regardless of the receive method. So basically you have to really focus and read the trajectory of the ball as that never lies.

 

[Tyce]

From a servers point of view:

I have a pretty nasty (for my level) top/side pendulum and can often fool people into expecting back/side.

What I really love is when people just push. Those balls, 80% fly straight out, 15% is plain smashable.

When people return an open ball (dead or slightly top), it's much less effective. Especially if they manage to return it sharp short backhand corner, the short trajectory gives me too little time to effectively do something with the return.

When people are skilled enough to just open up, loop, or flip the ball, the spin of my serve is much less important. Placement becomes lots more important, searching for the elbow on long, awkward reaches on short serves.

TL;DR: learn to return with an open ball to press your opponent, but expect them to adjust accordingly.

 

[Lazer]

I also a pendulum serve, it has enough sidespin so the return is mostly to my FH and I can hit it with underspin , nospin and topspin with very little change in attack angle. It’s not that much under/top spin but enough to get a weak return, until my opponent has figured it out. Therefore I use it sparse.

Cheers
L-zr

 

[ML fan]

Start by anticipating the serve to be long and fast. If it slows down towards you, it would look like it's hovering a bit, expect backspin and step in towards the table when needed.

Don't start by planning for a push and end up having to step backwards to get a drive, flip or loop. It throws you off balance, and chances are you end up with a half push and return a high ball.

Maybe my weak bh is also adding to my weak receiving..cause if the serve will be on my long fh,.I can attack most of it..

 

[ML fan]

This is my biggest weakness as well and unfortunately I don’t think there is any easy fix.

But over the last month thinking hard about some solutions and how to do better:

- we need to wait more to see the ball. Don’t anticipate. I realize that sometimes I started moving even slightly BEFORE the opponent hits the ball. So wait for it. It’s even more true when it’s a fast serve. With sidespin it can deviate. It’s a natural reaction to fear being late to the ball but we should stay calm and not make a move before getting enough information. We lose perhaps 0.1s of reaction time but our reaction will be 10x better

- Also we must be very low to see the ball height for timing and try to watch it until we hit the ball. I realize my body tends to go up as I step in to the ball. I would then also lose sight of the ball.

- when in doubt assume it’s topspin or knuckle not underspin, so don’t put the racket and lift the ball when pushing. The reason is at our lower levels players struggle to make downspin and it’s more obvious when they do. The ball will be usually slower also and you have more time to react if you thought It would be knuckle or topspin initially.

- there are several receives which are to some extent agnostic about the incoming spin. They may not be the best receives but at least if you can put the ball safely on the table, still better than giving away the point .

Thank you so much for this. And how do I master this fast? Do I need a coach to serve receive training?

 

[Jslick89]

There's no easy way quickly master reading spin on a serve. In my personal experience, it takes many years to become adept at returning serves, even then its a weakness in many player's games.

Some tips:
1) practice returning serve against a higher level opponent. Have them serve their best serves. if you miss the serve, ask them to do the same serve again until you can get a good return on it. Start with one type of serve then move on to the next. For example (first underspin, then underspin+ left spin, then underspin+right spin, then side spin, then dead)
2) work on your footwork in returning serve. even if you can read the spin of a serve, if you're out of position on your serve return, you're not going to get a quality return.
3) focus on the contact and which way your opponents paddle is facing. easier said than done, especially when your good opponents can do the same stroke motion but contact the ball at different timing in their motion which imparts a different spin on the ball.
4) if your opponents are giving you side spin serves, aim to the middle. a bad return is not gettting the ball back on the table. a decent serve return is getting the ball back on the table, a great serve return is putting the ball where your opponent is not expecting
5) tactically, you need to pay attention to patterns your opponents are doing. take advantage of recognizing those patterns but dont get caught with your hand in the basket. you still need to watch the contact, get in position, and make a play on the ball.
6) if the serve is long, you can use your own power to overcome much of your opponents spin.
7) you have more time than you think on a serve return. typically, a serve is a much slower ball than a ball your opponent gives you in a rally, which means you will have more time to read and react.
8) understand the basic physics of spin....underspin serves with have a flat trajectory. topspin serves have an up then down trajectory. first you get in position to return, then you can react to the trajectory of the spin.
9) i just want to emphasize footwork one more time. i believe footwork is the most important aspect to being great serve returner.

 

[KM1976]

Ok, my favorite topic. My solution works for me if I trust it, but your mileage may vary and this approach takes lots of observation from your end.
This is how I do it -
Let's say you and I play a match. Now, you have some services which are tricky, either with spin or with the point of contact which is not visible or too much fast for my old eyes even with glasses.
I will observe these things -
1. What happens when I touch the ball - goes to net or flies to Mars?
2. When did you use it in the match - what was the score and how did this serve complement your style - looper, hitter and/or counter looper.
3. Where did you place yourself after you made this special serve of yours?
4. Where was the first bounce of the ball - long serve, or short serve?
5. How did the ball bounce - does it feels like it is stopping after every bounce or does it feels like it is stretching forward /kind of jumping on you.

This is what happens next -
1. If I see this serve coming again to me, I will try to push or play counter - just based on my previous experience.
2. Based on my strength, I will try to take away the advantage of my opponent to score a direct point.
3. If you are biased in parking yourself, then it gives me more insights and I will try to steer the ball away from your prime hitting zone.
4. Based on the long or short serve - I can put my skills again to test to counter such serve meaning loop a long ball or well place the short serve.

Think in terms of early or late timing (based on less or too much spin) and placement. Additionally, work on your pushes and counters/blocks a lot. You should be very relaxed in a match when you are asked to push or make a counter. Again, timing and placement but not a direct kill. Construct a rally. Specially on a tricky service, if you are able to construct a rally then you have taken away the service advantage. Also, play for percentages. There could be 1 or 2 misreads, but don't carry too much burden for these misses. Construct the point and play.

 

[songdavid98]

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/what-is-the-most-important-area-to-jump-from-1900-to-2100.37267/post-524367

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/what-is-the-most-important-area-to-jump-from-1900-to-2100.37267/post-524379

 

[blahness]

Another thing is that if you don't have RPB, it is almost impossible to deal with dead or underspin fast serves to your BH without giving up the attack. This is why I almost exclusively target the deep BH with various spin fast long serves. If they like to pivot i will give them fast loaded sidespin that exits the table from the sides and it almost always guarantees I get a free 3rd ball attack.

If they stand further away, I just serve short nospin or sidetopspin to their FH and they're screwed too, I also get a free 3rd ball attack against their receive if they can't get to the ball in time to push it short. Unless they use some magic LP which can keep these serves short easily.

Even with higher level penholders, the best they can do is sidespin chopblock or fade kinda stroke, allow me to attack and then defend/block the 3rd ball, and in that case it becomes a fast topspin rally mode where shakehanders are usually favoured too.

This weakness was also used by Waldner/Persson very successfully against Liu Guoliang at the later stages of his career. Just serve long and fast to his BH, he can't attack it easily because of his weak RPB, and then 3rd ball attack everything he gives (as it will be a slow and weak long ball)