Review Yinhe Moon 12 Blue

[TensorBackhand]

I've probably got a long ways to go before I reach this certain level of play that you're referring to but can you elaborate?

In your opinion, up to what level can a player use these budget $10-$20 Chinese rubbers from Yinhe, Sanwei, 729, etc without it being a limiting factor (for instance, what USATT level)? Is a cheaper H3 alternative like 729 Battle II a mediocre rubber in the eyes of higher level players?

Everybody has their own opinion, so just take my opinion for whatever it's worth.

But I don't think anybody would seriously suffer from switching from H3 to Battle 2 or Yinhe.

If two players (A and B) are both 2600 and both use H3 and they usually split 10 matches down the line 5 to 5. If suddenly player A was forced to switch his rubber to Battle 2 or Yinhe, I highly doubt that he would suddenly start losing those 10 matches matches 4 to 6 or 3 to 7. If you wanna say 48 matches out of 100, ok fine maybe. But in the grand scheme of things, the differences are very small.

You can even see that among pro players, they often make dramatic changes in their setup with almost no discernable impact on their performance. I think both Mima Ito and Miu Hirano used H3 on their forehand before, and now switched to Tensor type rubber. Are they suddenly winning more matches? no not really. Mima Ito uses G1 on forehand, if using Butterfly would suddenly make her better, don't you think she would make the switch if it would help her win the top prize in TT?

Attitude mentioned 17-1800 USATT as the area where the rubbers might max out their potential, I respectfully disagree totally with this. Just last week I beat a 2100 Dignics player using Chinese rubber on a fake Stuor cloner blade. It would be tempting to say that he is better than me because of his equipment, but deep down I know that is not true. I think these rubbers would be very good for players even up to 2600. For that extra 2 or 3% extra performance, players above 2600 would be really picky and choosy, and I can understand them wanting perfection from their setup and thus opting for H3 National or whatever. But the notion that there is a big difference in your match performance from these "elite" rubbers is nonsense.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I've probably got a long ways to go before I reach this certain level of play that you're referring to but can you elaborate?

In your opinion, up to what level can a player use these budget $10-$20 Chinese rubbers from Yinhe, Sanwei, 729, etc without it being a limiting factor (for instance, what USATT level)? Is a cheaper H3 alternative like 729 Battle II a mediocre rubber in the eyes of higher level players?

Its quite difficult to elaborate and put a level (in numbers)
Some people can't tell the difference themselves, some can. So it is just one of those things that you will understand what I mean, when you feel the actual difference.

Now, I'm not going to compare tensor to H3, like another user is using here.
If a player is H3 and change to T05 or G1, of course they will suffer and vice versa.

So lets just talk H3 and the alternative as you mention.
And yes, it is mediocre in the eyes of many.

Just take China for example, in the provincial setup where almost everyone uses H3 on the forehand, do you see anyone with 729 or Yinhe? The answer is no. These are maybe USATT 2400 and up. Maybe at junior level they will be 2200~2400 and up.
But then again, they don't use commericial H3. They use the more expensive provincial version. In the past it used to be difficult to get, but now, any person can pick up a real H3 provincial very easily - this has hurt the alternative market heavily imo.

Basically each rubber (H3, Battle ii, BD etc) are more or less the same on light spin, light speed etc. But the moment you start going into heavy spin, heavy speed, and start using power and going further back from the table, where you are going in different arc/zones to "pick up" the ball, H3 is still the best out there by far. Even an expensive D09C cannot compete in the top gear play of H3 imo. So this isn't really a price to price factor, but rubber to rubber factor. Of course to expect cheap rubber to perform to expensive rubbers, there is a break even point and each has they own scale.

Now to even use BD (which I am a big fan of as a Yinhe seller) in the same context is either inflating the potential of the rubber, or we are talking different top gear definitions.

I actually believe that the understanding of equipment only gets as far as how you know to use it at its fullest.
That blue sponge 22# + h3 topsheet is still very good. I prefer it over say orange sponge 20# + h3 topsheet. So there is also certain personal preference invovled - you bond with the equipment over time (just like you know when you have a good glue job or bad glue job)

Give you another example, I'm not a long pips player, but when talking to semi pro long pip players and how they compare how each brands/models pimple bends (and respond) when chopping or blocking (they can actually feel it), to me it is only theory as I am not able to get that can't of detailed feel with my hands.

I once have a player come to me and said the pips are about to break. I had a look, and can't see any cracks/tear in the pips and laughed at her saying its in her head and told her to go back to train. Within a few days, she showed me and said, see, it broke. That is the kind of feeling you can get. Basically it just doesn't feel the same, same applies to H3 and alternatives - ie the ball had to arc like that, but it didn't.

One of Lin YunJu's former coach actually use the word "reliability" to define H3 in top gear versus G09C. I think that pretty much is a good one word answer.

 

[turbozed]

Thanks to @Attitude, @TensorBackhand, and @Tony's Table Tennis for the detailed responses.

Sounds like I either don't have to worry about this issue for a long long time (if ever). And if I do reach that sort of level it also sounds like I would already have a good enough feel for my equipment to make my own changes.

 

[Vrael]

yeah, noone here has to worry about 100% capability of the rubber. I didn't see anyone comparing h3 to tensors here, maybe I missed something.

Price of the rubber is not decided only by their 100% capabilities, but also brand name, durability, consistency between samples and many other factors. If "ease of use" is one of the important factors I don't see a reason why cheaper rubbers can't be a better choice than more expensive rubbers, Not to mentions those "cheap" rubbers have simillar price to butterfly's Glyzer. For example in Poland You can buy Yinhe Big Dipper Wang ZengYi version for the same price as Glyzer in Japan.

In my case dignics is too fast and I wouldn't care if I lose 10-15% of spin potentiall in top-gear shots for some controll and topsheet softness, since I won't be able to perform shots strong enough to get 100% of the dignics potential anyway, especially on bh. Tenergies are even bouncier, so "worse" in this case and here come hybrid chineese rubbers that have less bounce, maybe less spin potentiall in full power shots (other than h3). In this context talking about replacement for dignics seems reasonable.

From what I gathered here h80-8 sounds like a good idea for fh, but moon 12 and moon pro have softer topsheet and bigger margin for the error, so they should be better option for bh than the softest h8-80. Or is the performance of those rubbers, so bad that even if I am able to use 70% of dignics potential it makes no sense to even consider them, because the quality is that bad ? I though about big dipper on fh, because in different topic (https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/my-personal-guide-to-rubbers-on-aliexpress.27547/) someone wrote it makes nice clicky sound like old rubbers and sound is also pretty important for me

 

[turbozed]

Came across this Youtube review about Moon 12 Blue, which I'm posting in case anyone is interested in this rubber and wanted to see it in action:

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Moon 12 blue is currently Yinhe hottest item/seller

Can't wait for new colours to come out, as I do believe the colours can add some fun and variation to the amateur market and this rubber is perfect for that.

Green will be out next month.
Purple still in the pipeline

 

[hclnnkhg]

Moon 12 blue is currently Yinhe hottest item/seller

Can't wait for new colours to come out, as I do believe the colours can add some fun and variation to the amateur market and this rubber is perfect for that.

Green will be out next month.
Purple still in the pipeline

Hi Tony, do you know if there's any new version of Sun coming soon?

I have seen Sun 53 on Yinhe's website but nothing else. I like the Sun more than Moon but I seem to be the minority.

 

[hrbngr]

Is this the place to buy this rubber: https://ttnpp.com/store/galaxy-yinhe/1080-yinhegalaxy-moon-12-6.html

or is there cheaper reputable aliexpress seller as an alternative? do not see any different sponges/thicknesses for this on ttnpp

 

[hclnnkhg]

Is this the place to buy this rubber: https://ttnpp.com/store/galaxy-yinhe/1080-yinhegalaxy-moon-12-6.html

or is there cheaper reputable aliexpress seller as an alternative? do not see any different sponges/thicknesses for this on ttnpp

There is only one thickness for this rubber AFAIK. I have not bought this rubber via aliexpress, but my experiences with the big aliexpress stores have all been positive, and it's quite unlikely to get a counterfeit Yinhe rubber - they are not the fancy ones like Tenergies or Hurricane nationals.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Is this the place to buy this rubber: https://ttnpp.com/store/galaxy-yinhe/1080-yinhegalaxy-moon-12-6.html

or is there cheaper reputable aliexpress seller as an alternative? do not see any different sponges/thicknesses for this on ttnpp

thickness, only in Max option

sponge hardness, there is H+, H-, M+, M-, S+, S-
But it seems like M+ and M- is the most out there.
I had H- and M+ Samples

 

[TensorBackhand]

There is only one thickness for this rubber AFAIK. I have not bought this rubber via aliexpress, but my experiences with the big aliexpress stores have all been positive, and it's quite unlikely to get a counterfeit Yinhe rubber - they are not the fancy ones like Tenergies or Hurricane nationals.

haha, there is a fake Tenergy being sold on Aliexpress.

It's nothing like real tenergy, the sponge is quite hard, and the topsheet is quite tacky. But with some booster, it really speeds up and is quite bouncy and fast. I actually quite enjoyed using it.

 

[hrbngr]

@Tony's Table Tennis
ttnpp is selling the the Medium soft (?M-) for $20. BEO Store aliexpress has the M+ &M- at $21.75.

@Attitude
Did you try both Med Hard and Med Soft?

 

[Attitude]

@Tony's Table Tennis
ttnpp is selling the the Medium soft (?M-) for $20. BEO Store aliexpress has the M+ &M- at $21.75.

@Attitude
Did you try both Med Hard and Med Soft?

No just the M-Soft version.
I would imagine you will just get a better high end speed but will probably trade some flick-control for it. Or maybe even control over all.

Sadly i wont test anymore into that rubber, because i kinda grew out of it^^. Before the next season i will revisit H8-80, gonna test Loki Arthur China on my bh. If i wont get any more advantages from them, i probably gonna stick to boosted H8 in 37° on my bh. Currently i am overall happy with my equipment and will only make minor adjustments to it.
The biggest and latest change (and probably the last, because so far im positivly surprised) is the change to Sword Vsea. We will see how i will develop in the offseason.

 

[hrbngr]

Thanks for the reply. So, the med soft would still be good candidate for developing the RPB w/my left hand, i'm thinking. $20ish price point is good, too.

 

[turbozed]

I just measured the Moon 12 Blue with my Shore O durometer, as well regular Moon (soft) and Moon speed (soft) and it came up with the following values:

Rubber	Topsheet measurement	Sponge measurement	Hours of play
Moon 12 Blue (Medium-soft)	46	46	7
Moon 12 Blue (Medium-hard)	49	47	unused
Moon (soft)	45	42	25
Moon Speed (soft)	49.5	45.5	unused

I'm guessing both the topsheet and sponge will soften a bit with play, so I've included the play time of each.

 

[Attitude]

I just measured the Moon 12 Blue with my Shore O durometer, as well regular Moon (soft) and Moon speed (soft) and it came up with the following values:

Rubber	Topsheet measurement	Sponge measurement	Hours of play
Moon 12 Blue (Medium-soft)	46	46	7
Moon (soft)	45	42	25
Moon Speed (soft)	49.5	45.5	unused

I'm guessing both the topsheet and sponge will soften a bit with play, so I've included the play time of each.

That is interesting. It definitly feels softer than 46. More like 42 which is quite a step in between.
I mean with every shot, i could feel the ball sink into the rubber which is usually not so present with the rubbers i normally use^^

 

[turbozed]

That is interesting. It definitly feels softer than 46. More like 42 which is quite a step in between.
I mean with every shot, i could feel the ball sink into the rubber which is usually not so present with the rubbers i normally use^^

I think maybe it's because you're used to harder rubbers.

I actually have a very soft rubber in Fastarc S-1 which I measured at 41 degrees. That rubber is incredibly mushy feeling in comparison to the Moon 12 Blue.

 

[Attitude]

I think maybe it's because you're used to harder rubbers.

I actually have a very soft rubber in Fastarc S-1 which I measured at 41 degrees. That rubber is incredibly mushy feeling in comparison to the Moon 12 Blue.

Well i did play 47 on my bh several times which shouldnt be so far away from 46 feelingwise. But dude, tenergy 05, fastarc g1, victas v15 extra, xiom vega pro and x... I played all of those, and the moon 12 felt completely different. And im not speaking only about the catapult and speed overall, but the feeling you get when your rubber makes contact with the ball. Moon 12 grips the ball way more, as if you are holding the ball really long while the rest felt more like a really short slingshot

 

[hrbngr]

thanks for the testing! looks like Med Soft is the way to go.