Setup Question Long 5 + Rubbers??

[K.K]

@jk1980
You are right in that regard but just by playing idk 20-30 matches a season you don´t magically get any better? Especially if most of the games I lost (in the higher league).
I don´t have those players as my trainings partner.
So should I get the same blade with the same weight again? I wonder if I would feel that difference if the blade was 85g instead of 90g but then again it wouldnt be the same..


@K.K
I really don´t know what to do. Watched my game vs Ronny (he played many years in the higher league) and he struggled a lot when I looped with my FH even though they were not rockets.
Also what about the glayzer09c if I should try something slower for the FH? Wasn´t that the rubber if D09c is too fast you?

And yeah I guess I will stick to the same blade. I do really like the soft touch. I also liked the hype kr 47,5 because of the soft topsheet. But either way I will give myself 1 more month and then decide if I really want to change the rubbers. Maybe the Long5 will be on sale somewhere then and then I can test some different rubbers on it.

I wouldn´t say my Playstyle is defending lob game.

This point explains it quite well how my "defending" looks like. Most halls have very small playing field so I don´t want to stick to this actually. Even in this game not sure which point it was I stepped over that guys foot when I was pivoting and using my FH attack.

I just feel like sometimes I loop and then stay close to the table. The ball doesn´t come into my hitting zone and then I gotta return the ball weak and then my goal is just bring it on the table. Still need to practise the right distance and overall recovery after my shots and going back into half distance so I can loop again. But its not easy if in Training my first loop gives me straight a point. But As I said I am going to train in 2 other clubs so I get some exposure to different players even if they might not be better than me in terms of rating it should help me get better.

i think he only struggled because your movement is pretty slow so a good player will intuitively think: less spin. but if you have a good touch then you can load up with spin even though the movement is not fully developed. i sometimes have this too when my short backspin serve in forehand comes a bit too short or high and the opponent can push this ball long to the deep forehand, then i am only able to brush it with my arm and most people don‘t expect the quality i can still generate with that and block it out. but still it is a shot that should be the exception. see it more like a trick shot.

you can always reglue your rubbers. i have two blades and when i teste new rubbers i swap them around many times, no problems! only some rubbers get a bit smaller if they are super high tensor rubbers, but then you just need to cut them bigger on the blade. just put one new glue laye on the blade and use the leftover glue layer on the rubber, this will work easy.

just play defensive and win points no problems with that if your good at it. just don’t get sucked up with the idea that equipment would boost your performance, because it will in the worst case only worsen it. it is like learning a new stroke. first you will lose a lot of points because you are not adapted and not confident enough. if you swap all the time then you never get confident and always hold back. confidence is the most important thing! find something that suits your playstyle and i think the combination HL5 with RakzaZ+GewoKorea is oerfect, stick with it, train with it and then just worry about tactics

 

[Zezima]

i think he only struggled because your movement is pretty slow so a good player will intuitively think: less spin. but if you have a good touch then you can load up with spin even though the movement is not fully developed. i sometimes have this too when my short backspin serve in forehand comes a bit too short or high and the opponent can push this ball long to the deep forehand, then i am only able to brush it with my arm and most people don‘t expect the quality i can still generate with that and block it out. but still it is a shot that should be the exception. see it more like a trick shot.

you can always reglue your rubbers. i have two blades and when i teste new rubbers i swap them around many times, no problems! only some rubbers get a bit smaller if they are super high tensor rubbers, but then you just need to cut them bigger on the blade. just put one new glue laye on the blade and use the leftover glue layer on the rubber, this will work easy.

just play defensive and win points no problems with that if your good at it. just don’t get sucked up with the idea that equipment would boost your performance, because it will in the worst case only worsen it. it is like learning a new stroke. first you will lose a lot of points because you are not adapted and not confident enough. if you swap all the time then you never get confident and always hold back. confidence is the most important thing! find something that suits your playstyle and i think the combination HL5 with RakzaZ+GewoKorea is oerfect, stick with it, train with it and then just worry about tactics

Which ball were you talking about? That clip was just showing my defensive abilities that I am just lifting the ball back. Maybe you were talking about the open up with the FH?

So you just put 1 sheet glue on the Racket and nothing on the rubber? I find it a bit too harsh to regluing a d09c. Just feels bad if you know what I mean.

I keep watching my videos and most of the times it feels like my stance is too high up and my recovery is just too slow so I cant loop the balls and push it back instead. Its not even arm swing or anything most of the shots are missed because I am too upright + dont even go back to my ready stance.

In case I buy the same blade again I will try that combination in season break before the 2nd half starts. I honestly think though that I should forget the equipment for now and work on staying lower -> recovery getting lower again.

 

[Zezima]

Yeah, I hear the same but don't bother IMO. No way, HL 5 can't be fast as Primorac Carbon. Best option you may go is Acoustic like 5ply soft blade, but I don't think even it will improve your game drastically.

I wish I had W968, I was thinking to buy Q968 prov. as backup (vice-versa) but no budget for that.
Fang Bo carbon is almost identical with only thinner handle and cheap option for backup.

So you have no backup yourself? I would go with the same blade as a backup. Otherwise whats the point..

 

[Aizen]

So you have no backup yourself? I would go with the same blade as a backup. Otherwise whats the point..

I have a backup, the FB carbon with old rubbers same with main, same structure, same brand, similar weight.
Of course, I'm not pro, I don't think I need spend twice to have a spare racket I will use %1-2 of time as € 180 blade and € 140 rubbers.

Unless my racket is broken or rubbers detach from sides during match day, I won't need my backup.

 

[Zezima]

I have a backup, the FB carbon with old rubbers same with main, same structure, same brand, similar weight.
Of course, I'm not pro, I don't think I need spend twice to have a spare racket I will use %1-2 of time as € 180 blade and € 140 rubbers.

Unless my racket is broken or rubbers detach from sides during match day, I won't need my backup.

yeah sure but what if you will need one in 5 years or something. Then you would have it ready. While if something happens you will need time to adjust again. Thats why I think it wouldnt be a bad investment.

Anyway I watched many of my games today (it was painful). And wrote some things down mainly about footwork, getting further back once I see them looping or after I make a good push (need to be more aggressive with this aswell) and be ready to attack.

And connect my upperbody with my legs more (upper body leans back sometimes) which is not a big problem since it happens to pros aswell but pros recover from that position by double jumping back and having their center in ready position again - which currently I am not doing...

 

[jk1980]

Would this not mean that on "faster" shots the ball would overshoot more? In yesterdays training I could figure out that I can loop with a very slow motion and good arc/spin.

I dont get what you are comparing right now. So for instance with dignics 09c vs Rakza Z with the same stroke the ball will probably land closer to the net on the other side of the table when you loop, simply because Rakza Z is slower in the end tempo.

My "bad" habits don´t work with the D09c anymore just holding out the racket while back then with G1 it would still land on the table. But I am like I don´t want to rely on that anyway and learn to do active strokes no matter what.

That is a totally valid point. Using rubbers that will not bait you into doing these half-assed emergency strokes that will somehow clear the net and land on the table is a good idea. I guess we all know these emergency strokes that we got used to because they work but they are really just a lazy replacement for proper footwork and staying low to play the right stroke.


When i read that you just want to get closer to your "ideal setup" something came to my mind and it is also the result of a training session i had today. So today i had a training session against a defender/chopper.
The first drill was she countered (with long pips side) to me, i looped, she chopped, i looped, she chopped, i pushed, she chopped, i looped and so on.
With the Rakza Z i had to adjust to closing that racket angle quite a lot on the first countered ball, because without backspin on the ball and with me doing any kind of upwards motion i would pull the ball up too much with the ball landing out of the table. Later we did a drill where i did loop the chops without pushing in between and after adjusting my blade angle and getting the timing right i was even able to "outloop" the backspin in the chopped ball by so much that the ball would go out of the table not because i gave too much power and overshot, but simply i pulled to hard upwards.

You said that your league does not really focus on the short game and that you only get long serves and hardly need to attack real backspin. If that is really the case, it might be unwise to use a rubber with a high throw like dignics 09c or Rakza Z, simply because what these rubbers make easier is nothing that you actually need. Perhaps a rubber with a lower throw would fit better, simply because you would not need to close the bat angle that much on most balls you attack which then leads to you hitting the edge less often, because you dont need that close angle with a lower throw rubber.

We all have our instinctive topspin stroke including a bat angle that feels natural to us. Perhaps you just need to find a rubber that you dont need to change your intuitive stroke that much but that will still create enough clearance over the net that you can attack with confidence.

Going into the other direction i think using Hurricane would basically also afford you to change your stroke quite a lot, so it might not be an easy ride and the real end result might not be as beneficial, as the DHS Hurricanes are also not really fast. I wont even mention boosting, because i think it is very hard for somebody that never boosted his rubber to do that and then get used to it and then when changing rubbers trying to find the right method to boost to get the very same endresult with the rubber.

 

[jk1980]

@jk1980
You are right in that regard but just by playing idk 20-30 matches a season you don´t magically get any better? Especially if most of the games I lost (in the higher league).
I don´t have those players as my trainings partner.

But still the experience you gain under pressure and the exposure against different play styles will be much more helpful in getting better than having training partners that just fool around. You concentrate better in matches and so i really think that you got much out of that season. Especially when you had to think about strategies to cope with the opponents strength. This is what you learn once and then can do instinctively, without really thinking "hey, today i learned XYZ".

So should I get the same blade with the same weight again? I wonder if I would feel that difference if the blade was 85g instead of 90g but then again it wouldnt be the same..

You can be glad that this decision about the weight of the blade is taken away from you. You hardly find any DHS HL5/W968 lighter than 88g, so you wont notice the diffence too much even if you get a light one (which would be as i said perhaps 88 or 87g).

Here i found a used HL5 for 140€ which sounds like a deal if you wanna go for a proper second blade

DHS Long 5

Konkav alte Version die Ma Long auch Olympia gespielt hat OVP dabei,DHS Long 5 in Berlin - Neukölln

www.kleinanzeigen.de

 

[Sims]

I dont get what you are comparing right now. So for instance with dignics 09c vs Rakza Z with the same stroke the ball will probably land closer to the net on the other side of the table when you loop, simply because Rakza Z is slower in the end tempo.

That is a totally valid point. Using rubbers that will not bait you into doing these half-assed emergency strokes that will somehow clear the net and land on the table is a good idea. I guess we all know these emergency strokes that we got used to because they work but they are really just a lazy replacement for proper footwork and staying low to play the right stroke.


When i read that you just want to get closer to your "ideal setup" something came to my mind and it is also the result of a training session i had today. So today i had a training session against a defender/chopper.
The first drill was she countered (with long pips side) to me, i looped, she chopped, i looped, she chopped, i pushed, she chopped, i looped and so on.
With the Rakza Z i had to adjust to closing that racket angle quite a lot on the first countered ball, because without backspin on the ball and with me doing any kind of upwards motion i would pull the ball up too much with the ball landing out of the table. Later we did a drill where i did loop the chops without pushing in between and after adjusting my blade angle and getting the timing right i was even able to "outloop" the backspin in the chopped ball by so much that the ball would go out of the table not because i gave too much power and overshot, but simply i pulled to hard upwards.

You said that your league does not really focus on the short game and that you only get long serves and hardly need to attack real backspin. If that is really the case, it might be unwise to use a rubber with a high throw like dignics 09c or Rakza Z, simply because what these rubbers make easier is nothing that you actually need. Perhaps a rubber with a lower throw would fit better, simply because you would not need to close the bat angle that much on most balls you attack which then leads to you hitting the edge less often, because you dont need that close angle with a lower throw rubber.

We all have our instinctive topspin stroke including a bat angle that feels natural to us. Perhaps you just need to find a rubber that you dont need to change your intuitive stroke that much but that will still create enough clearance over the net that you can attack with confidence.

Going into the other direction i think using Hurricane would basically also afford you to change your stroke quite a lot, so it might not be an easy ride and the real end result might not be as beneficial, as the DHS Hurricanes are also not really fast. I wont even mention boosting, because i think it is very hard for somebody that never boosted his rubber to do that and then get used to it and then when changing rubbers trying to find the right method to boost to get the very same endresult with the rubber.

Post 19 in here has info id second as a review of RZ V the H3 and the D09c

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/dignics-09c-review.23682/#post-317772

 

[Zezima]

I dont get what you are comparing right now. So for instance with dignics 09c vs Rakza Z with the same stroke the ball will probably land closer to the net on the other side of the table when you loop, simply because Rakza Z is slower in the end tempo.

After lots of thinking I think this might not be the rubber I want. I don´t want to lose speed (d09c) already has very low speed on slow strokes. Its like slow stroke = even slower ball (not direct) fast stroke = even faster ball (faster than the stroke you do). I can confirm that from what I have tested so far. Also D09c is surprisingly spinny on slow shots which I want to keep - it fits my playstyle because I want to win points through placement and spin and not hammering and getting fast blocks back where I will be out of position.
The high throw is a good point. But currently I am working on hitting more forwards. And the ball still goes into the net sometimes - or atleast I prefer it go slightly out than straight up into the net. I struggled vs topspin serves a lot but I found a solution to that (Less backswing and not going for a straight winner) and focus on placement instead.

During the match there is some pushing going on until someone opens up as you can see in the video I have posted. Its just that most serves (70%) are long (25%) half long (5%) short serves. But in the rally I dont take the chance to loop the long ball. But that has something to do with my distance to the table (mostly too close and standing too upright - ball is far from eye level) So thats something I gotta work on that has nothing to do with the rubbers aswell.

We all have our instinctive topspin stroke including a bat angle that feels natural to us. Perhaps you just need to find a rubber that you dont need to change your intuitive stroke that much but that will still create enough clearance over the net that you can attack with confidence.

My intuitive stroke is pretty bad (very closed racket angle and opening up just before I hit the ball) It got MUCH better lately but I can see in the videos sometimes that its not entirely gone.
I want to change that (more open racket angle -> close angle ) and in training drills it seems to be really working.

Going into the other direction i think using Hurricane would basically also afford you to change your stroke quite a lot, so it might not be an easy ride and the real end result might not be as beneficial, as the DHS Hurricanes are also not really fast. I wont even mention boosting, because i think it is very hard for somebody that never boosted his rubber to do that and then get used to it and then when changing rubbers trying to find the right method to boost to get the very same endresult with the rubber.

Exactly it was very intimidating and I am not a big fan of having to boost my rubber after many months I wouldn´t even realize that my rubber went shiet and just use a different technique (subconsius) to compensate it. Just seems too inconsistent and lots of time investment that I would rather put in watching videos and training. So for now atleast I am done with the thoughts of going with H3neo.

But still the experience you gain under pressure and the exposure against different play styles will be much more helpful in getting better than having training partners that just fool around. You concentrate better in matches and so i really think that you got much out of that season. Especially when you had to think about strategies to cope with the opponents strength. This is what you learn once and then can do instinctively, without really thinking "hey, today i learned XYZ".

Yeah maybe you are right and I underestimate that fact. I can´t really say. I def get more used to that kind of pressure thats for sure but playing wise I am not quite sure. 90% I couldn´t even play "my game" because I was so much under pressure.

You can be glad that this decision about the weight of the blade is taken away from you. You hardly find any DHS HL5/W968 lighter than 88g, so you wont notice the diffence too much even if you get a light one (which would be as i said perhaps 88 or 87g).

Oh really? There seems to be the old and new version of HL5 (I play with the old version appearently because of the red card inside - new one seems to have a white card inside) Also I play with a ST Handle. Does Ma Long play with a flared handle? I actually don´t know if other pros big ones like Omar, Steffen and so on plays with a ST or Flared Handle would be interesting. I played with both. But going for the same blade I guess it would be better to go for the same Handletype.

I also tried a different slower blade I believe samsonov pro black edition or something I am only sure about samsonov and pro part on the handle with slowish rubbers Acuda S2 and so on. Like sure I could loop with it but it had no fkin power or much spin on the ball. I could feel the ball so much as if the ball wouldn´t want to leave the Rubbers. But that was too fkin exhausting and my opp would easily block them left and right. For me the first few balls are even more important as a tall guy that I play them with quality. So a blade like that would be nothing for me. I would get outblocked and be exhausted af. I even had a hard time driving the ball back without it going into the net which can be considered good. But for me I realized I like the speed that my blade gives me. But I would also be fine with a 90%. But thats not worth changing the setup and get a different Blade. I just sometimes wish that on slower strokes it wouldnt fall down so much. Slow input should be = slow output but currently its even slower than my input. I think I will adjust to that better over time. Its been only 1 month and I am expecting too much already maybe.


I also have a hard time choosing the rubber lets say I overshoot by a few cm. Sure I can adjust my technique but did I overshoot because I can generate less spin than with another rubber to make the ball go back to the table faster? Because we overshoot mostly when going for a good 70-100% topspin putting almost everything into the shot. SO with a slower rubber that same ball lands on the table but has less speed therefore it can have less spin - if I understand it correctly. So why would I go for the route where I get less speed and spin that gets easily blocked or the loop ends mostly closer to the net as you say instead of learning the stroke with good rubbers that I want to use in the long run. Sure I will fail many months trying to adjust to this rubber now but in the long run I will get used to it and have a setup that generates more spin even on slower strokes instead of playing with a slower rubber and having to adjust later once switching to faster rubbers.. But I do agree that newcomers should not play with this kind of rubber. But here we are talking about 8 years + someone who watches himself and tries to correct his technique and works on it. Also durability wise I can maybe even play the entire season with these rubbers. (1st october - April ~6 months average 3x a week)
I looked into rubbers like K3 and they dont even last a month or so.

Sorry it was a lot. But this is my current thought. So TLDR: I will keep this setup for the next 2 months and then decide if I want to play it in the 2nd half aswell.

 

[Sims]

I just sometimes wish that on slower strokes it wouldnt fall down so much. Slow input should be = slow output but currently its even slower than my input. I think I will adjust to that better over time. Its been only 1 month and I am expecting too much already maybe.

I thought you said you liked this aspect as it meant you HAD to do active strokes rather than passive.
Don't second guess yourself here, best to make a decision and stick with it. You will get used to that part of it. Its the top end where you are going to have more difficulty.

I also have a hard time choosing the rubber lets say I overshoot by a few cm. Sure I can adjust my technique but did I overshoot because I can generate less spin than with another rubber to make the ball go back to the table faster?

It's not going to be only cos you generated less spin (09c doesn't lack spin) it's because the rubber is so fast. Maybe too fast. You might get used to it but you might not, it's not really a rubber to be learning proper technique with.

Because we overshoot mostly when going for a good 70-100% topspin putting almost everything into the shot. SO with a slower rubber that same ball lands on the table but has less speed therefore it can have less spin - if I understand it correctly.

Less speed does not mean less spin.
It can often be more spin!
I don't think speed should be your focus now. Better to take less speed if you have to and get the ball on the table with good technique and good spin.
I played my first match at Premier level on Monday and the shot my (superior) opponents had the biggest difficulty with was the slower but very spinny loops.

So why would I go for the route where I get less speed and spin that gets easily blocked or the loop ends mostly closer to the net as you say instead of learning the stroke with good rubbers that I want to use in the long run.

You're not using all the speed of 09c anyway. In fact you've said you are holding back to try and keep it at 70%/80%. And having a rubber generate speed without having to do a full stroke isn't good for development at this stage.

I'm not trying to push Rakza Z on you but it is basically a gateway rubber to 09c. If you can't control Rakza Z then 09c is definitely too much. It would be a good idea to try one (or something like it) imo. You will be encouraged to perform full strokes without fear of not knowing where the ball is going and at our level I can tell you that when you get the hips first, arm whip contact right, it still travels with enough speed to trouble our level of opposition.

It seems to me like you are convincing yourself that this is gonna work no matter what. That's probably the mindset you need because with any doubt then it's DEFINITELY not gonna work.
But it also seems to me that you are in a situation where you don't want to admit a mistake and make moves to correct it.
Sorry, it's just my humble opinion.
The best way to be sure is just to try and alternative and see if it's better or not because it would be a shame to waste months.
If you want a Rakza Z I have 2 used sheets that I just took off 2 blades. They still have a few months of life in them so I can send you one if ya just wanna give it a go! PM if that's interesting, postage to Austria should only be a few euros.
Actually, I am trying to push Rakza Z on you! 😂

 

[K.K]

sorry to say it but if you can‘t get speed out of a bouncy samsonov black with acuda rubbers, then something is wrong with your technic. you should then seriously consider to step down and try rakza z. but this will be maybe still too fast for you, if you have the problems you talked about. i know someone with 1900ttr that plays that exact setup you talked about and his balls are loaded with spin and speed that is truly hard to handle, so d09c need even twice the amount of energy to make it fast and i think that is the reason it feals slow for you. go with rakza z, correct your technic and sou will be fine and saved money

 

[jk1980]

After lots of thinking I think this might not be the rubber I want. I don´t want to lose speed (d09c) already has very low speed on slow strokes. Its like slow stroke = even slower ball (not direct) fast stroke = even faster ball (faster than the stroke you do). I can confirm that from what I have tested so far. Also D09c is surprisingly spinny on slow shots which I want to keep - it fits my playstyle because I want to win points through placement and spin and not hammering and getting fast blocks back where I will be out of position.

i think you are having a wrong impression about Rakza Z. Rakza Z is similarly controlled in the slow and passive game. By having a softer topsheet it will still be quite spinny, even on slow shots, so that is not something that you will miss.
The main difference is on active shots (with about 60-100% power) these will be less fast than dignics 09c (but still very spinny). You will probably overshoot quite a bit less with the Rakza Z, because it has a lower endspeed.

 

[Zezima]

I thought you said you liked this aspect as it meant you HAD to do active strokes rather than passive.
Don't second guess yourself here, best to make a decision and stick with it. You will get used to that part of it. Its the top end where you are going to have more difficulty.

It's not going to be only cos you generated less spin (09c doesn't lack spin) it's because the rubber is so fast. Maybe too fast. You might get used to it but you might not, it's not really a rubber to be learning proper technique with.

Less speed does not mean less spin.
It can often be more spin!
I don't think speed should be your focus now. Better to take less speed if you have to and get the ball on the table with good technique and good spin.
I played my first match at Premier level on Monday and the shot my (superior) opponents had the biggest difficulty with was the slower but very spinny loops.

You're not using all the speed of 09c anyway. In fact you've said you are holding back to try and keep it at 70%/80%. And having a rubber generate speed without having to do a full stroke isn't good for development at this stage.

I'm not trying to push Rakza Z on you but it is basically a gateway rubber to 09c. If you can't control Rakza Z then 09c is definitely too much. It would be a good idea to try one (or something like it) imo. You will be encouraged to perform full strokes without fear of not knowing where the ball is going and at our level I can tell you that when you get the hips first, arm whip contact right, it still travels with enough speed to trouble our level of opposition.

It seems to me like you are convincing yourself that this is gonna work no matter what. That's probably the mindset you need because with any doubt then it's DEFINITELY not gonna work.
But it also seems to me that you are in a situation where you don't want to admit a mistake and make moves to correct it.
Sorry, it's just my humble opinion.
The best way to be sure is just to try and alternative and see if it's better or not because it would be a shame to waste months.
If you want a Rakza Z I have 2 used sheets that I just took off 2 blades. They still have a few months of life in them so I can send you one if ya just wanna give it a go! PM if that's interesting, postage to Austria should only be a few euros

My fear of overshooting is not the rubber as I saw yesterday again. Mentally it's hard for me to go for these shots because my other half is thinking: just keep the ball on the table and wait for a better ball to loop.
I won't be magically better with the fh with this rubber I think. I see in the Videos that I am looping long serves. I do loop long backspin and so on. But I also push a lot or don't commit to half long balls as much as I should maybe.

Maybe I don't need a slower Rubber but a medium throw would be better. Or even both. I also don't have the energy to constantly loop. I am not a full attacker. It's a very exhausting playstyle. I also watched Omars game the other day to see if he attacks every single ball and even he doesn't. I am an amateur. I just need to be more consistent than my opp. When I want to loop and decide to I want to get the feedback what went wrong. I do have to admit with his slower setup the feedback was better (my setup is very soft feeling) . Yesterday I did match games against players I struggled with. I told myself I will only push and block and I won the game. It wasn't even close.

My goal is. If I have the right distance to the ball and loop. I don't want to make mistakes. It doesn't have to be a rocket just spinny. As you said slow spinny is also dangerous in our league. Do why switch to a rubber that is maybe also slow spinny on slower dtroke but on higher end aswell?

I don't care about the money - the rubber seems to last very long. So I can use it the entire season. And when I do stand right( again have to train my footwork a lot) I can do more powerful shots. I don't know how many games you watched (if any) I use pivot attack a lot. That point has to be a winner. Idc if I hit 90% of the ball on the table and 90% it gets blocked. I rather have 70%TS rate and 20% blockrate(from opp).
So I would downgrade my game instead of using this time to get good with the setup I want to play long term.

Right now for me is not the technique which is the problem but footwork and decision-making. I just thought maybe with h3neo I could end the point earlier(with the first loop)

Again if you send me one sheet I can give it a try. But it's hard to test if I can't test it in an actual league game vs a player I lost previously. Or how else would I be able to tell the difference?

 

[Zezima]

i think you are having a wrong impression about Rakza Z. Rakza Z is similarly controlled in the slow and passive game. By having a softer topsheet it will still be quite spinny, even on slow shots, so that is not something that you will miss.
The main difference is on active shots (with about 60-100% power) these will be less fast than dignics 09c (but still very spinny). You will probably overshoot quite a bit less with the Rakza Z, because it has a lower endspeed.

The sad truth is I very rarely need to hit it with that much power. It's mostly about spin and attack continuation once I started looping.

That's why it's gonna be hard to progress for now if I don't train with players that doesn't force me to be more active

 

[Zezima]

sorry to say it but if you can‘t get speed out of a bouncy samsonov black with acuda rubbers, then something is wrong with your technic. you should then seriously consider to step down and try rakza z. but this will be maybe still too fast for you, if you have the problems you talked about. i know someone with 1900ttr that plays that exact setup you talked about and his balls are loaded with spin and speed that is truly hard to handle, so d09c need even twice the amount of energy to make it fast and i think that is the reason it feals slow for you. go with rakza z, correct your technic and sou will be fine and saved money

Yeah well that doesn't make any sense because you don't understand my problem.

 

[K.K]

Yeah well that doesn't make any sense because you don't understand my problem.

a softer rubber will get easier speed together with spin. spin alone is not that important. spin + speed = quality. so if you are less active rakza z will actually be faster and spinnier then d09c. acuda is even softer and should give you way better quality for lazy strokes. i know that you want to develop and therefore want something that pushes you beyond but from my side it seams like your stuck with the wrong mindest. you should be able to get that quality on the table in matches! and if you have a rubber you are afraid of, then this is obviously the wrong rubber for you. the moment you face a better player you get punished for all those spinny slow loops. so just play better, get higher points and then face better opponent. i think you can’t skip this part whatever you do. we all can play with everything in training, what matters is what you can do in matches.

 

[Sims]

My fear of overshooting is not the rubber as I saw yesterday again. Mentally it's hard for me to go for these shots because my other half is thinking: just keep the ball on the table and wait for a better ball to loop.
I won't be magically better with the fh with this rubber I think. I see in the Videos that I am looping long serves. I do loop long backspin and so on. But I also push a lot or don't commit to half long balls as much as I should maybe.

Maybe I don't need a slower Rubber but a medium throw would be better. Or even both. I also don't have the energy to constantly loop. I am not a full attacker. It's a very exhausting playstyle. I also watched Omars game the other day to see if he attacks every single ball and even he doesn't. I am an amateur. I just need to be more consistent than my opp. When I want to loop and decide to I want to get the feedback what went wrong. I do have to admit with his slower setup the feedback was better (my setup is very soft feeling) . Yesterday I did match games against players I struggled with. I told myself I will only push and block and I won the game. It wasn't even close.

My goal is. If I have the right distance to the ball and loop. I don't want to make mistakes. It doesn't have to be a rocket just spinny. As you said slow spinny is also dangerous in our league. Do why switch to a rubber that is maybe also slow spinny on slower dtroke but on higher end aswell?

I don't care about the money - the rubber seems to last very long. So I can use it the entire season. And when I do stand right( again have to train my footwork a lot) I can do more powerful shots. I don't know how many games you watched (if any) I use pivot attack a lot. That point has to be a winner. Idc if I hit 90% of the ball on the table and 90% it gets blocked. I rather have 70%TS rate and 20% blockrate(from opp).
So I would downgrade my game instead of using this time to get good with the setup I want to play long term.

Right now for me is not the technique which is the problem but footwork and decision-making. I just thought maybe with h3neo I could end the point earlier(with the first loop)

Again if you send me one sheet I can give it a try. But it's hard to test if I can't test it in an actual league game vs a player I lost previously. Or how else would I be able to tell the difference?

I have to say that this topic is more deserving of the title ''How I'm gonna make D09c work no matter what anyone says'' rather than "Setup Question Long 5 + Rubbers??"" 😉
Because you're not really entertaining the idea of different rubbers.
But that's cool, hopefully the thinking and talking has helped you to be more sure of what to do.
I wish you luck for the season ahead and also hopefully the training camp will give you lots of good stuff to work with going fwd!
It'll be interesting to see how you get on so I look forward to some more videos!
PS: just PM if you want the rubber 👍

 

[Zezima]

a softer rubber will get easier speed together with spin. spin alone is not that important. spin + speed = quality. so if you are less active rakza z will actually be faster and spinnier then d09c. acuda is even softer and should give you way better quality for lazy strokes. i know that you want to develop and therefore want something that pushes you beyond but from my side it seams like your stuck with the wrong mindest. you should be able to get that quality on the table in matches! and if you have a rubber you are afraid of, then this is obviously the wrong rubber for you. the moment you face a better player you get punished for all those spinny slow loops. so just play better, get higher points and then face better opponent. i think you can’t skip this part whatever you do. we all can play with everything in training, what matters is what you can do in matches.

The thing is I am pushing or lifting the ball back to the table in those situations. But I see what you mean now. I remember doing some half assed drive strokes so for those shots a softer rubber would be much better.

I also agree with you that I should do more agressive shots (aggressive push also included here which I am not doing in matches currently). I am just confident in myself that with any other rubber that would be the same.

Just glued 2months old R7 FH and the 2months? old gewo for BH on my brothers newly purchased blade petr korbel offensive japan blade.
I will try it out today. But really though hard to compare my setup to this entirely new setup. Because I got the technique down and have no pressure I will be able to loop any ball with this blade aswell. He says he would really like the Rakza Z on his FH. @Sims


For me its a bit hard to go all in. Like sure I can try to loop after the first long push from my opp but if I realize I am just not standing perfect and know that if I push back my opp wont immediately pressure me hard, I won´t attack it.
I think you can watch the game me vs Ronny. He has played many years in the highest League (just a year ago).
He kept attacking and attacking (good mindset) but did it win him the game at the end? No. Did I play good myself? No. Same day I play against their lefty who even has less points than me. He went with the mindset that he has nothing to lose. Looped all long balls and pressured me hard. Did he play good and confident? yes. Does he always play like that? No(He would have more points by now otherwise). Could I adapt to that and play aggressive myself to compensate? No(Because it was very surprising for me and it was totally unexpected that he would keep that performance the entire game). -> My fault. Would I have a different mindset if I kept playing against players like him? Definetly.

There is a game from me just recently where I played "Ess" 1700 rated. In the video you can see I was looping way way more. I was going for attacking shots. Some successfull some not so much. What I am saying here is in both games I get super nervous. In one game I tried more in the other one I tried less. Not because of my equipment (it was the same in both games) but because of the mindset. Keep in mind this is also the first Season in 8!! years that I finally play in a league where I feel good. I couldn´t build up confidence till up recently. started playing in the 4th League (half a year) then 5th league a year and immediately got promoted to 2nd League and got smacked (because we had no other player worth playing there - I was just young and motivated so they decided to go with me) So I got smacked 2 years there on my 3rd year in the 2nd league we got promoted but I was going 55% in the first league a year after I went 49% and then like 25% in the highest League. And now finally I am back in the 1st League with a 14-4. And this confidence keeps going up and up. Which means I will feel more confident going for attacking shots because I know in theory I can do it. Idc if I overshoot some that will always happen. Whats important is that I find my balance in terms of going for a win but also still putting my opponent under pressure. That doesnt nesseserly mean I need to attack every single ball and play like ma long (I wish I could ;P) but at the end of the day I like winning more than losing (even though there were some losses I also enjoyed a lot).

Now I am actually a bit scared I might like his new setup more than mine x)