Some Guidance needed - From Donic Barracuda to Yasaka Rakza 7

[Samir.thacker]

Hello TTD community,
My name is Samir Thacker. I discovered TT at 39 years and have since been inseparable from the table. In the last three years, I have been trying to learn on my own (unable to devote time to get coaching as the hours dont workout)
Now, as a self taught candidate, at times, I try to get help from Youtube videos and at other times, from people I play against at club tournaments in India.
My set up consisted of a Sweden extra blade, Barracuda on FH and Vega Euro on BH. I recently changed from Barracuda to Rakza 7 on my FH. And since that day, I have been struggling. The Donic had this spring like catapult effect which the Rakza 7 does not have. The Rakza needs sponge engagement (or so the videos call out). My FH loop with the Barracuda was my weapon (slow, spin heavy openers and then a finisher). But with Rakza 7, the slow spinny loop is not happening... I believe I need to change my mechanics a little but dont exactly understand how...
So, if anyone can point me to the right youtube video or to a player whom I can watch and learn how to get maximum spin from the Rakza 7. Once a rally starts, I find the Rakza 7 to be very direct and on proper strokes, i do get some spin and a lot more speed than the Barracuda. But so far, the spin is not nearly as much as I got with Barracuda, even though the Rakza 7 is rated to have better spin ratings overall than the Barracuda...
Any help here is welcome...

Thank you in advance.

Samir Thacker
Current setup:
Blade: Yasaka Sweden Extra
FH Rubber: Yasaka Rakza 7 (2.0 mm)
BH Rubber: Xiom Vega Euro (2.0 mm)

 

[Yuomay]

Is there a specific reason you cannot go back to barracuda?

 

[Samir.thacker]

@Yuomay. No. Nothing is stopping me... But as I wrote in my post, I am trying to learn. And I have seen some other players generate a lot of spin using the Rakza 7 or some similar harder sponge rubbers... So, just interested in learning the right technique. Eventually, I would want to move to hybrids too, and the ability to generate spin using both the top sheet tackiness and the sponge will come handy.

 

[Lazer]

@Yuomay. No. Nothing is stopping me... But as I wrote in my post, I am trying to learn. And I have seen some other players generate a lot of spin using the Rakza 7 or some similar harder sponge rubbers... So, just interested in learning the right technique. Eventually, I would want to move to hybrids too, and the ability to generate spin using both the top sheet tackiness and the sponge will come handy.

There is nothing special about Rakza 7. Spin is generated the same way as with all other rubbers. Etither by digging into the sponge or brushing (very light contact with the rubber). Engaging the sponge gives more speed and brushing gives less speed.
Yes some rubbers works best with either merhod. Rakza 7 works for both methods

You should be able to use basically any instruction video.

Cheers
L-zr

 

[Samir.thacker]

Thank you Lazer,
Yes, so the digging in to the sponge is something I do not do well it seems... Brushing is how I was so far getting spin in the earlier set up... And I want to now learn the use of sponge part too. Most videos i found speak about the brushing contact more than the sponge use for spin generation. And hence the post

 

[ToH]

Its all about tecnique. I have used a ton of different rubbers and coming from stiga Helix Hybrid to razka 7 last week. I was suprised about how much spin it generates easy. I am not sure for how long time you have used the razka 7, but you have to give it time. I struggle with the short game with razka 7 vs Helix hybrid, but i hope within some weeks i will adjust. Remember to do drills with your team-mates. I think its not good to change rubbers to often, but somethimes it helps us to understand our tecnique when we do change.

 

[Samir.thacker]

Thank you ToH
I agree about the bit that it does not help to change often.. I have changed to the Rakza 7 since less than a month. My day one impression was of dread (because coming from Barracuda, it felt dead! ) But my last session on Sunday was much better... The only issue, during drills, I can get good spin sometimes ( I assume that is when the sponge is getting involved) but in a game, still not getting it... So, I am trying to understand what exact change do I bring (only brushing the ball is not helping with it) so I could also generate spin with it... And I agree with your observation that in general, in the right hands, it is quite spiny. A friend whose technique is much better, can actual generate loads of spin using it... I, on the other hand, struggle

 

[pingpong102]

Since the pimples structure of Rakza 7 makes it more bouncy, you need to start put more effort in your forehand snap so the ball can stay longer on your rubber, and also hit forward more

 

[vanjr]

I don't see any big advantages in R 7 vs Barracuda. If you want more spin with R7 go max sponge. Or maybe go with a more loopy (flex) blade.

 

[Tyce]

Rakza 7 is a rubber that can punch and brush, but it took me quite a while to figure out how to work it well. (It didn't help that I was basically a newbie to any tensor rubber and the new balls)

One thing is, when you contact it directly, you get a lot of forward motion, the ball really wants to go rather than spin.

Now here comes the counterintuitive bit: at this point, don't hold back, but hit through. You will eventually experience a sensation like you're dragging the ball, rather than bouncing it. The easiest way to pick up this sensation is to step back and do some big movement loops, like loop-to-loop with an opponent. When you get the hang of it, slowly step back to the table and make your strokes a bit smaller every time.
For me, a good next step was to start playing drive to drive, like a warmup, and in tiny little steps keep adding a little bit of spin motion, like you're trying to be cheeky and sneak some topspin in. You can easily take like 5-10 steps of building this up to a full looping motion.

This way, you come at the problem from two angles: large to small and small to large.

 

[Archo]

You should film video of yourself hitting from the side so you can see the contact angle. Most likely you're lifting the ball more than grabbing it.

 

[Wakkibatty]

Thank you ToH
I agree about the bit that it does not help to change often.. I have changed to the Rakza 7 since less than a month. My day one impression was of dread (because coming from Barracuda, it felt dead! ) But my last session on Sunday was much better... The only issue, during drills, I can get good spin sometimes ( I assume that is when the sponge is getting involved) but in a game, still not getting it... So, I am trying to understand what exact change do I bring (only brushing the ball is not helping with it) so I could also generate spin with it... And I agree with your observation that in general, in the right hands, it is quite spiny. A friend whose technique is much better, can actual generate loads of spin using it... I, on the other hand, struggle

The best way IMO for a beginner to get the hang of this, is by breaking your swing angle into percentages of power contact and brushing contact.

The concept works like this:

If you're swinging at the ball on your forehand side, and you ONLY swing the bat purely forward (towards your opponent) with NO upwards arm movement whatsoever (i.e. your arm is moving parallel to the table top), then this stroke provides 100% POWER and 0% BRUSH.

At the other extreme, if you contact the ball on your FH side, and your arm is ONLY moving vertically and perpendicular to the table (i.e. from the ground towards the ceiling) and there's NO forward motion of the bat towards your opponent at all, then this stroke provides 0% POWER and 100% BRUSH.

And naturally enough, if you move your arm forwards towards your opponent at a perfect 45% angle to the table top, then this stroke provides 50% POWER and 50% BRUSH.

This breakdown of power vs brushing with your strokes, applies equally on both your FH and BH side. It also still applies regardless of whether it's top spin or back spin you're trying to create with your stroke.

Now then:

The FIRST key thought to understand with this model, is there's no universally applicable, "one size fits all" approach to deciding what ratio of power and brushing to use in your stroke.

Every player constantly changes the power to brush ratios of their strokes to some degree, with every stroke they make.

There is no ideal 'right' nor 'wrong' amount of brushing or power to add or take away, in any given situation.

Every player makes these decisions on the fly, instinctively, and in a way that works for them, with each player's approach being slightly different.

The SECOND key thought you need to understand is thus:

The bigger the POWER percentage of a stroke is, the more that stroke will engage the rubber's sponge layer in the process.

A stroke that is 100% BRUSH and 0% POWER, cannot engage the sponge layer at all, unless your aim is to hit the ball into the ceiling or floor. As the bat is moving perfectly vertically, driving the ball into the sponge layer AND hitting the ball towards your opponent at the same time is basically impossible.

Conversely, with a stroke that is 100% POWER and 0% BRUSH, it's almost impossible to NOT engage the sponge layer in the process.

The only way to execute a 100% POWER stroke and hit the ball towards your opponent WITHOUT engaging the sponge layer at all, is if both the ball, and your arm, are moving extremely slowly.... but even then, you'd be lucky to get the ball over the net.

Essentially, if you are going to hit the ball over the net at all, you need to have at least SOME power percentage in your stroke, and engage the sponge to SOME degree.

Getting the ball over the net without engaging the sponge at all, is technically possible, but it's also a very weak shot. These sorts of stroke only present a threat to you, not your opponent, as typically the resulting shot is an easy one for your opponent to smash.

This whole model implies that your stroke's power percentage is directly linked to how much you engage the sponge.... and without wanting to over simply things, that pretty much IS how the process works.

(NB: As a side point, some people argue this whole 'power vs brush' concept is slightly flawed when taken in isolation.

The counter-argument usually states that under this model, the more you engage the sponge, the less you brush the ball, which leads to less spin -- but sometimes the opposite is also true because its difficult to spin the ball properly WITHOUT engaging the sponge.

To rectify this apparent contradiction, this is when you add other factors like sponge hardness and your top sheet's friction / takiness levels to the equation. Those however are subjects for another day and another post. Adding those other elements into your thinking at this point will only confuse things.)

The most important concept to focus on at this point in your development, is understanding the mix of POWER and BRUSHING that is inherent to every stroke you make.

Untill you understand these concepts fully, and can build them into your stroke play, then your rubber choices don't really matter -- you're just swinging blind in either case and relying on your equipment to save you.

For a rubber change to really work properly for you, first you need to know how your stroke and equipment work together and their respective jobs for you. Only then can you really get to grips with how changing one or the other will change the end result, and affect the quality of your returns.

Simple truth is -- the only thing changing your rubbers or blade ever really does for you, is alter the ratios of power to brushing you create, with any given stroke.

If you master these concepts of power and brushing (ie: spin creation) now however, and learn to apply them in your game), then it takes equipment choices out of the stroke-quality equation somewhat.

Once you master executing these concepts in your game, it means you are not going to be dependent on your rubbers or blade to create either power or spin on your behalf, and rely on them to paper-over technical flaws in your game.

Hope this helps. 🙂🙂

 

[Archo]

@Wakkibatty

A 45 degree swing with no upward movement is actually 70.7% power, at least geometrically.
What actually happens is down to the rubber construction, hence different throw angles exist
I'd also keep in mind that the sponge is thicker when swinging at an angle, and it'll wind up differently. I think this is why some rubbers are slow-as when hitting flat, but rockets when hitting at an angle.

You also need to take into account that the incoming ball probably has a normal velocity too. So you can definitely make a fully slicing contact and still get "power". That's one key aspect of the pendulum backspin serve. You don't need to angle the angle more open because the ball falling into the rubber gives it the normal component.

Notice how if you rest the ball on the rubber and try to serve pendulum by swinging it horizontally, you won't get much done at all. If you drop the ball onto the rubber, you get a lot more performance. So the swing will change based on the speed your opponent gives you as well.

 

[Wakkibatty]

@Wakkibatty

A 45 degree swing with no upward movement is actually 70.7% power, at least geometrically.
What actually happens is down to the rubber construction, hence different throw angles exist
I'd also keep in mind that the sponge is thicker when swinging at an angle, and it'll wind up differently. I think this is why some rubbers are slow-as when hitting flat, but rockets when hitting at an angle.

You also need to take into account that the incoming ball probably has a normal velocity too. So you can definitely make a fully slicing contact and still get "power". That's one key aspect of the pendulum backspin serve. You don't need to angle the angle more open because the ball falling into the rubber gives it the normal component.

Notice how if you rest the ball on the rubber and try to serve pendulum by swinging it horizontally, you won't get much done at all. If you drop the ball onto the rubber, you get a lot more performance. So the swing will change based on the speed your opponent gives you as well.

Well said 😊😊 I haven't had to formally calculate vector percentages in quite some time. In hindsight, my percentages for a 45 degree stroke seem way off, while yours feel far more on the money.

It would have been more correct to say there is an inverse direct relationship between power and brush : i.e. one increases proportionately at point of contact while the other decreases, depending on changes in your arm's forward thrust vector.

Anyhoo, I'm sure people get the central idea... (or at least I hope they do -- really need to brush up on my Newtonian physics before writing these sorts of posts 😂😂).