Suggestion needed for Jr player

[JJ Ng]

Got 729 Bloom Power today, and I must say it is excellent. About 90 min of hitting and you can really see the improvement of speed on backhand side, without any loss of control. It seems that touch at the table is excellent, and short and medium distance strokes are fast and controlled.

He tried also hitting forehand with it and didn't like it at all because of less spin compared to H3 neo, however it seems to be a really good match for backhand side. You guys know what you are talking about.

Yihne rubbers have been stuck at the border for 7 days, so who knows when I'll get them. Can't wait to compare them to 729 Bloom Power.

Now I really want him to try a bit faster blade, not the Timo Ball ALC that I originally had in mind , but something faster than Timber 5 ALL/S Small FL, which is (ALL).

Any inner carbon blades that someone can suggest, or smaller handle fast blades, I do not really care which brand?

Lol after you posted, I also ordered from BEO. I got a Yinhe Big Dipper because everyone here raved about it. A couple Mercury 2 because again they are dirt cheap. Loki RXTON 1 black, RXTON 3 pink and blue (just to see if I like the colors) and RXTON 5. I just want to see for myself if 1, 3 and 5 are indeed progressively faster for better players. Got a Sanwei Target provincial to see if I like it (I am using Sanwei Target National right on on my forehand). I am a bit worried because I put the order in o 5/19/2023 and as of today I don't think they have shipped yet.

Ok as for your question, OFF- Tibhar Stratus Power Wood. I have six of them. Love it. Solid OFF- speed. Good vibration and feedback when you play. Tibhar Samsonov Force Pro Black Edition is also a good choice. Slightly faster than Stratus Power Wood. Overall, Tibhar Samsonov Force Pro Black Edition just feels more "solid" and "heavier" or "more substantial than Stratus Power Wood. Tibhar Samsonov Force Pro Black Edition is rated OFF.

As for inner carbon, recently I have discovered Tibhar Fortino Performance carbon. It was a very very easy transition from me from Tibhar Stratus Power Wood to Fortino Performance. Very woody feel type of carbon blade. I can clearly see the increase in speed but no drop in control. I am shelving my Fortinon Performance because recently I put Sanwei Target National on a 5-year old Stratus Power Wood blade with a worn out 2-year old G-1 on the backhand. I fell in love with STN so I am back using that old blade. Eventually I plan to transfer STN to Fortino Performance and keeps on moving up.

I have Viscaria and Acoustic carbon. Do NOT buy them. For me, no feeling. I might use those two blades later but both have been stripped of all rubbers to be put on other blades for me to test them.

I also have a couple cheap carbon blades from Gambler. I have not played with them much but despite their advertising (saying those carbons are the same as $300-$400 Butterfly ALC or ZLC, etc. etc.) they are slower carbon blades so I actually like them. But I am using those Gambler with traditional rubbers (such as Neottec Katana and Gambler Volt-M) to do multi-ball training with my kids. I may use those blades more seriously later on and then I will have something to say.

I don't comment on stuff/equipments I have not tried.

 

[kingkimchi]

Hello,

Just joined today after watching what it seems is 100's of hours of Dan on YouTube. Looking for some advice for my 10yr old son.

Got him Andro Timber 5 ALL/S Small FL with H3 NEO on both sides last year when he started playing, but I am now thinking I need get him a faster blade / rubbers.

For some reason he has an already developed forehand loop / drive where he is using his whole body to launch really speedy balls (Chinese style forehand). He did really well in tourneys I took him to. I think many years of playing tennis helped.

His backhand loops need work, but he can attack early fairly consistently from backhand side, and has a proper smash technique - something that H3 Neo isn't really good for.

From what I can see he likes to attack from both wings whenever there is a chance. Last week he tried a butterfly ZLC blade with Dignics 09c on both sites and it seemed that the balls were flying 50% faster. However, he only played for 10 min, so there wasn't enough time to make any conclusions.

Since I am very new to table tennis I would appreciate any advice. After much research I am leaning towards:

- Timo Ball ALC blade, due to smaller 24mm handle
- Dignics 09c for forehand - I am thinking it is going to be similar to H3 Neo, but much faster
- Tibhar MX-P for backhand (trying to save some money)

If that is an overkill, it seems that Timo Boll TJ might be a good blade? If anyone has some follow up questions, please let me know.

Thanks in advance!

if you are trying to save money, the mx-p loses some of the spring/catapult grippy effect you get from new to about 2 months of playing consistently. Most mx-p users love that feeling of that new mx-p more than the feeling that they get a few months later, leading to them constantly replacing it, the same might occur to your son. therefore, I would recommend something like donic baracuda for his backhand: no boosting needed, good speed, monster spin and grip, top notch control, and above average durability, perfect for an intermediate like him. For the fh, why not try boosting that H3 neo, maybe try provincial version for more grip, spin and tackiness since your son has developed his fh loop/ drive technique well. For his smashes, train your son to twiddle his racket to his bh.

 

[kingkimchi]

Got 729 Bloom Power today, and I must say it is excellent. About 90 min of hitting and you can really see the improvement of speed on backhand side, without any loss of control. It seems that touch at the table is excellent, and short and medium distance strokes are fast and controlled.

He tried also hitting forehand with it and didn't like it at all because of less spin compared to H3 neo, however it seems to be a really good match for backhand side. You guys know what you are talking about.

Yihne rubbers have been stuck at the border for 7 days, so who knows when I'll get them. Can't wait to compare them to 729 Bloom Power.

Now I really want him to try a bit faster blade, not the Timo Ball ALC that I originally had in mind , but something faster than Timber 5 ALL/S Small FL, which is (ALL).

Any inner carbon blades that someone can suggest, or smaller handle fast blades, I do not really care which brand?

maybe try commercial hl5 since your son is comfortable with h3, or if you want to adjust him to some tensors try butterfly harimoto alc, if you want a bit more speed but slightly less control, try butterfly harimoto zlc (this is priced US $58 more than the alc version keep in mind).

 

[DaveNewbie]

Now I really want him to try a bit faster blade, not the Timo Ball ALC that I originally had in mind , but something faster than Timber 5 ALL/S Small FL, which is (ALL).

Any inner carbon blades that someone can suggest, or smaller handle fast blades, I do not really care which brand?

Monarch,


My son is also 10 yo. He has been playing for about one year with an ALL blade (Stiga Classic, which has much control but is rather slow). He felt that his blade was too slow for the kind of direct attack game that he is developing, and his coaches actually agreed. Following the recommendations of this and other forums, last month I decided to buy a Sanwei CC from Aliexpress, a 5 wood ply + 2 carbon blade. It's only 14 euros, and I was a little skeptical about the quality of such an inexpensive blade, but it is so cheap that I decided to give it a try. I equipped it with Palio AK47 Red rubbers, both FH and BH, also very cheap, from AliExpress.

My son was amazed. In less than 5 minutes, he had already decided to get rid of his old blade. Even a terrible player like me immediately felt that the blade was good, fast but easily controllable. Since then, he has been playing with this bat. The first day he used it in his club, his coach tried it and told him that it was really good, both the blade and the rubbers. He has never used Chinese stuff (he is a Viscaria+Tennergy05 player) and was shocked that such a racket could cost only 42 euros.

I have never tried other carbon blades, so I cannot compare the Sanwei CC with others, but our experience with this blade is really positive. In fact, it is so cheap that I bought a another Sanwei CC to test other rubbers on it and compare.

 

[JJ Ng]

Monarch,


My son is also 10 yo. He has been playing for about one year with an ALL blade (Stiga Classic, which has much control but is rather slow). He felt that his blade was too slow for the kind of direct attack game that he is developing, and his coaches actually agreed. Following the recommendations of this and other forums, last month I decided to buy a Sanwei CC from Aliexpress, a 5 wood ply + 2 carbon blade. It's only 14 euros, and I was a little skeptical about the quality of such an inexpensive blade, but it is so cheap that I decided to give it a try. I equipped it with Palio AK47 Red rubbers, both FH and BH, also very cheap, from AliExpress.

My son was amazed. In less than 5 minutes, he had already decided to get rid of his old blade. Even a terrible player like me immediately felt that the blade was good, fast but easily controllable. Since then, he has been playing with this bat. The first day he used it in his club, his coach tried it and told him that it was really good, both the blade and the rubbers. He has never used Chinese stuff (he is a Viscaria+Tennergy05 player) and was shocked that such a racket could cost only 42 euros.

I have never tried other carbon blades, so I cannot compare the Sanwei CC with others, but our experience with this blade is really positive. In fact, it is so cheap that I bought a another Sanwei CC to test other rubbers on it and compare.

I am a big fan of Chinese rubber. I grew up playing Friendship 729. There is really nothing wrong with Chinese blade and rubbers (except perhaps on the backhand side).

I am not a big fan of ALL or ALL+ blades. Most people would benefit from starting with all wood OFF- blades. Just tone down the rubbers in the beginning (use non-tensor rubbers and/or thinner sponge). Grow with the blade, instead of changing the blade.

I am also a fan of inner carbon and not really a fan of outer carbon. I want the wood feel even when I play composite blades.

 

[monarch]

JJ, I am still waiting on BEO Store rubbers, but they did ship out in 1-2 days from me placing the order. The product is stuck at a Canadian border, and sometimes it can mean they "lost it". Will have to wait a few more days before I contact the seller.

As for the Chinese rubbers, for now I only tried DHS / 729 and I am a big fan. Will definitely stick with H3 neo on forehand, and might up it to provincial blue sponge for tournaments and keep commercial for practice. Might be easier to have 2 blades (1 for practice and 1 for competitive), but that is why selecting a blade will be a high task.

Also I never swapped the rubbers, not sure if that is a good idea and how many times it can be done. I always kept the same rubbers and then just replaced them with new ones.

As for the backhand rubber, 729 bloom power seems to have all that I was looking for, but I will try Big Dipper and Jupiter 3 as well, since already ordered. Will not go to euro / japanese rubbers for now, as I see no reason. I have Rasanter R42 / V47 and don't think they are any better than chinese rubbers. Now, I know Dignics 09c, that is now going for $160 Canadian dollars + tax, is really good, but to spend $180 for a rubber is not something I will do at this time.

As for the blade, since this is for a 10yr old, I am looking at something that is not too heavy / thick, so maybe up to 88gr and 5.8mm thickness. The Chinese brands that are popping up seem to be DHS, SANWEI, LOKI and Yihne. I was thinking with carbon inner and limba wood outside, to resemble wood blade feeling.

Some interesting blades, there are so many though

- YINHE 970XX-K -- 88gr and 5.8mm thick OFF- to OFF ~ $70 cad
- Sanwei CC - what Dave suggested here seems to be really nice, but no info on weight etc. ~ 20 cad
- Sanwei 75 - ALC w/koto 85gr / 5.7mm thin handle ~ 60 cad (this one is very interesting)
- DHS 301x ALC OFF+ / 90gr / 5.9mm... might bee too much of a racket ~ $100 cad

As for non chinese blades I only looked at Butterfly for now. I really liked specs of Timo Ball ALC, but again it is $200, and without being able to try it first, do not want to waste money.

Timo Ball TJ however seems to be an interesting option, made for 10-13 year old, not too expensive -- only 80 cad! It comes with a smaller handle and Tamca 5000 carbon. Weight is only 70gr and 5.2mm thickness. The only issue is that I cannot find reviews anywhere. Not even sure what wood they used. Not sure if it is good with H3 neo and other chinese rubbers.
Butterfly spec sheet: Style: Attack | Reaction: 10.5 | Vibration: 11.4 .. not sure what that means, is it OFF-, OFF, OFF+, OFF++ ?

Would love to find out more about this blade, but youth products have very small following / reviews. Anyone know how good TJ is?

 

[DaveNewbie]

- Sanwei CC - what Dave suggested here seems to be really nice, but no info on weight etc. ~ 20 cad

My Sw CC are 88 and 89 gr. You can ask the seller about the weight and choose the lightest one before buying any blade.

 

[Scarfed Garchomp]

Boll TJ looks like a miniaturized version of the old Butterfly Kumpuru, koto-t5000-ayous.

 

[monarch]

Interesting, Kumpuru seems to be very nice. TJ is now on my shortlist.

 

[monarch]

Ordered a 85gr Sanwei CC for $14 USD. Also ordered H3 provincial orange 39h. I think I now have enough equipment to test everything out and see what works the best

From reading and researching even more, it seems that Chinese rubbers behave the best with softer outer plies of wood. So flexy wood blades or carbon blades like Butterfly innerforce (same structure as Long 5) should work the best due to 2 outer wood plies. Prott has Long 5 light for 120 USD. Butterly innerforce is going for $148 USD. Blades with outer carbon such as Viscaria / Timo Ball ALC would work better with euro rubbers or something like Dignics 09c.

Current Blades for testing:
- Andro Timber 5 ALL/s
- Andro Novacell OFF/s
- Sanwei CC
Current Rubbers for testing:
- H3 Neos: 2.15 H38 / 2.2 H39 / 2.15 provincial orange H39
- Andro Rasanter: R42 2.0mm / V47 2.0mm
- Yihne: Big Dipper max H38 / Jupiter 3 Asia max H38
- 729: Power Bloom max H45

 

[JJ Ng]

Ordered a 85gr Sanwei CC for $14 USD. Also ordered H3 provincial orange 39h. I think I now have enough equipment to test everything out and see what works the best

From reading and researching even more, it seems that Chinese rubbers behave the best with softer outer plies of wood. So flexy wood blades or carbon blades like Butterfly innerforce (same structure as Long 5) should work the best due to 2 outer wood plies. Prott has Long 5 light for 120 USD. Butterly innerforce is going for $148 USD. Blades with outer carbon such as Viscaria / Timo Ball ALC would work better with euro rubbers or something like Dignics 09c.

Current Blades for testing:
- Andro Timber 5 ALL/s
- Andro Novacell OFF/s
- Sanwei CC
Current Rubbers for testing:
- H3 Neos: 2.15 H38 / 2.2 H39 / 2.15 provincial orange H39
- Andro Rasanter: R42 2.0mm / V47 2.0mm
- Yihne: Big Dipper max H38 / Jupiter 3 Asia max H38
- 729: Power Bloom max H45

I agree. I do not like the outer carbon such as Viscaria, Acoustic Carbon and DHS Bo blades. I use Chinese rubber on my forehand. I think hard rubber on hard outer layer of carbon/wood just dappen the feelings on the forehand even more.

However, if you use Chinese rubber on the FH side for a couple months. Then you rip them off and reboost it, they will become even softer and more springy. Hard to describe but it is a good feeling.

Many people say to strip the glue off the rubber before you boost the second time. Honestly I do not have time and hand skill for that. I just boost it as it with two more layers and it works just fine.

I like G-1 on the backhand side. I have a Big Dipper, black, 40 degree that I have not tested out yet. I also have Loki RXTON 1, 3 and 5 to be tested. I wonder if they will are progressively faster as you go up the number and become more suitable for advanced players.

I have thought about getting 729 Power Bloom too. The sponge looks pretty! lol. But I have enough testing to be done so I need to wait...

 

[monarch]

I agree. I do not like the outer carbon such as Viscaria, Acoustic Carbon and DHS Bo blades. I use Chinese rubber on my forehand. I think hard rubber on hard outer layer of carbon/wood just dappen the feelings on the forehand even more.

However, if you use Chinese rubber on the FH side for a couple months. Then you rip them off and reboost it, they will become even softer and more springy. Hard to describe but it is a good feeling.

Many people say to strip the glue off the rubber before you boost the second time. Honestly I do not have time and hand skill for that. I just boost it as it with two more layers and it works just fine.

I like G-1 on the backhand side. I have a Big Dipper, black, 40 degree that I have not tested out yet. I also have Loki RXTON 1, 3 and 5 to be tested. I wonder if they will are progressively faster as you go up the number and become more suitable for advanced players.

I have thought about getting 729 Power Bloom too. The sponge looks pretty! lol. But I have enough testing to be done so I need to wait...

Never tried boosting, kind of lazy .. but it seems that everyone boosts H3 rubbers.

729 Bloom Power is very nice.
- it came vacuum packed, and the racket it is on has been outside on the balcony for last 3 days due to unbelievable rubber stench
- it picks up the ball off table similarly to used H3 Neo
- it has slightly less spin, but a bit more power compared to H3. H3 will be better for looping.
- it grips the ball very well during short game
- it can lift backspins with ease

Compared to H3 I do not think any control has been lost, nor touch for short game. You lose some spin, but add some speed.

Just got the 3 rubbers I was waiting for... this will be the first 3 test combos:
1. Andro Timber ALL 5 with H3 neo provincial and 729 bloom power
2. Andro Novacell OFF with H3 neo 2.2mm and Big Dipper 38H
3. Sanwei CC with Rasanter R42 / V47

 

[JJ Ng]

Never tried boosting, kind of lazy .. but it seems that everyone boosts H3 rubbers.

729 Bloom Power is very nice.
- it came vacuum packed, and the racket it is on has been outside on the balcony for last 3 days due to unbelievable rubber stench
- it picks up the ball off table similarly to used H3 Neo
- it has slightly less spin, but a bit more power compared to H3. H3 will be better for looping.
- it grips the ball very well during short game
- it can lift backspins with ease

Compared to H3 I do not think any control has been lost, nor touch for short game. You lose some spin, but add some speed.

Just got the 3 rubbers I was waiting for... this will be the first 3 test combos:
1. Andro Timber ALL 5 with H3 neo provincial and 729 bloom power
2. Andro Novacell OFF with H3 neo 2.2mm and Big Dipper 38H
3. Sanwei CC with Rasanter R42 / V47

Lol, don't entice me into buying 729 Bloom Power now!!! I am going broke. lol!

What you described sounds like what I felt when I put Sanwei Target National on my forehand side WITHOUT boosting for the first time. STN is a good product too. And STN did not stench at all coming out of the package.

Boosting is really not that bad. I grew up in the days of speed gluing. On a tournament day, peope would literally speed glue 2-3 times a day because they believe the speed glue effect would wear off after a couple hours and everyone is trying to get that very little edge here and there. They were also addicted to the "clicking" sound that speed glue produces on the Mark V or Bryce rubber!!! Then at the end of the day, they had to rip off the rubber to let it shrink back to its original size, before having to reglue again tomorrow before practice....It was pure pure madness....

I did NOT speed glue. I played with my Globe 999, Friendship 729 and Juic 999 products where speed glue would not have helped anyway.

By comparison, when you boost, you just wait 12-24 hours each time. Two layers of booster and you can be done. I just do the boosting at night. Then supposedly you can leave the rubber on the paddle for 2 months before the booster effect wears off. Honestly I just leave the rubber on the paddle for 6 months. I cannot tell much difference.

Only recently I ripped off all those old H3 neo rubber to reboost them again to put on different blades to test out blades. I found out that I really really like the reboosted H3 neo!!!!

Anyway, boosting is really not that bad. I grew up in the speed glue era. I thought everyone around me was insane, speed gluing 2-3 times a day on the day of the tournament.....

 

[kingkimchi]

JJ, I am still waiting on BEO Store rubbers, but they did ship out in 1-2 days from me placing the order. The product is stuck at a Canadian border, and sometimes it can mean they "lost it". Will have to wait a few more days before I contact the seller.

As for the Chinese rubbers, for now I only tried DHS / 729 and I am a big fan. Will definitely stick with H3 neo on forehand, and might up it to provincial blue sponge for tournaments and keep commercial for practice. Might be easier to have 2 blades (1 for practice and 1 for competitive), but that is why selecting a blade will be a high task.

Also I never swapped the rubbers, not sure if that is a good idea and how many times it can be done. I always kept the same rubbers and then just replaced them with new ones.

As for the backhand rubber, 729 bloom power seems to have all that I was looking for, but I will try Big Dipper and Jupiter 3 as well, since already ordered. Will not go to euro / japanese rubbers for now, as I see no reason. I have Rasanter R42 / V47 and don't think they are any better than chinese rubbers. Now, I know Dignics 09c, that is now going for $160 Canadian dollars + tax, is really good, but to spend $180 for a rubber is not something I will do at this time.

As for the blade, since this is for a 10yr old, I am looking at something that is not too heavy / thick, so maybe up to 88gr and 5.8mm thickness. The Chinese brands that are popping up seem to be DHS, SANWEI, LOKI and Yihne. I was thinking with carbon inner and limba wood outside, to resemble wood blade feeling.

Some interesting blades, there are so many though

- YINHE 970XX-K -- 88gr and 5.8mm thick OFF- to OFF ~ $70 cad
- Sanwei CC - what Dave suggested here seems to be really nice, but no info on weight etc. ~ 20 cad
- Sanwei 75 - ALC w/koto 85gr / 5.7mm thin handle ~ 60 cad (this one is very interesting)
- DHS 301x ALC OFF+ / 90gr / 5.9mm... might bee too much of a racket ~ $100 cad

As for non chinese blades I only looked at Butterfly for now. I really liked specs of Timo Ball ALC, but again it is $200, and without being able to try it first, do not want to waste money.

Timo Ball TJ however seems to be an interesting option, made for 10-13 year old, not too expensive -- only 80 cad! It comes with a smaller handle and Tamca 5000 carbon. Weight is only 70gr and 5.2mm thickness. The only issue is that I cannot find reviews anywhere. Not even sure what wood they used. Not sure if it is good with H3 neo and other chinese rubbers.
Butterfly spec sheet: Style: Attack | Reaction: 10.5 | Vibration: 11.4 .. not sure what that means, is it OFF-, OFF, OFF+, OFF++ ?

Would love to find out more about this blade, but youth products have very small following / reviews. Anyone know how good TJ is?

tj might be a bit too fast since it is an outer layer t5000 (the carbon used in hyper fast primorac). I would look into the butterfly ones if I were you: Harimoto series, Ovtcharov ALC, Franziska ZLC, Apolonia ZLC, Innerforce Layer, Innerforce originals if you can get hands on them. Cheapest ones would be Harimoto ALC, Ovtcharov ALC, but the ZLC's aren't bad. I wouldn't recommend looking into Harimtoto super zlc (or any super zlc) in this moment in time as your son is still a beginner, and super zlc blades are rather heavy. hope I helped. Sidenote: one good aspect of TJ is that the handle is smaller than other butterfly blades, as thin as apolonia, but slightly shortter, perfect for a ten year old.

 

[JJ Ng]

tj might be a bit too fast since it is an outer layer t5000 (the carbon used in hyper fast primorac). I would look into the butterfly ones if I were you: Harimoto series, Ovtcharov ALC, Franziska ZLC, Apolonia ZLC, Innerforce Layer, Innerforce originals if you can get hands on them. Cheapest ones would be Harimoto ALC, Ovtcharov ALC, but the ZLC's aren't bad. I wouldn't recommend looking into Harimtoto super zlc (or any super zlc) in this moment in time as your son is still a beginner, and super zlc blades are rather heavy. hope I helped. Sidenote: one good aspect of TJ is that the handle is smaller than other butterfly blades, as thin as apolonia, but slightly shortter, perfect for a ten year old.

Isn't T5000 Butterfly's fastest carbon? I think they put it in Primorac carbon too. Or does it not matter, T5000 v.s. ALC v.s. ZLC? It just matters if they put the carbon on the outside or more inside toward the core?

 

[kingkimchi]

Isn't T5000 Butterfly's fastest carbon? I think they put it in Primorac carbon too. Or does it not matter, T5000 v.s. ALC v.s. ZLC? It just matters if they put the carbon on the outside or more inside toward the core?

Ofcourse the type of carbon matters too, alc is softer, slightly slower, but gets more bite on the ball. zlc is faster, more direct with a slightly larger sweet spot

 

[Gozo]

 

[JJ Ng]

Ofcourse the type of carbon matters too, alc is softer, slightly slower, but gets more bite on the ball. zlc is faster, more direct with a slightly larger sweet spot

Ok got it. is T5000 in between ALC and ZLC or is it faster than both?

 

[mocker88]

Got 729 Bloom Power today, and I must say it is excellent. About 90 min of hitting and you can really see the improvement of speed on backhand side, without any loss of control. It seems that touch at the table is excellent, and short and medium distance strokes are fast and controlled.

I didn't try the Bloom Power 45deg myself, but the 47deg is right up there spin-wise, on forehand brush loops like H3 or Battle II. I can imagine that the 45deg would fit better on backhand.

He tried also hitting forehand with it and didn't like it at all because of less spin compared to H3 neo, however it seems to be a really good match for backhand side. You guys know what you are talking about.

Yihne rubbers have been stuck at the border for 7 days, so who knows when I'll get them. Can't wait to compare them to 729 Bloom Power.

Now I really want him to try a bit faster blade, not the Timo Ball ALC that I originally had in mind , but something faster than Timber 5 ALL/S Small FL, which is (ALL).

Any inner carbon blades that someone can suggest, or smaller handle fast blades, I do not really care which brand?

The DHS - Power G5X is a nice inner carbon blade, that's not too fast. Or the Sanwei - HC-5S, which is a tiny bit faster in my opinion. The Haitian - SC-80 is a more controlled inner soft carbon blade, if the above might be too fast...

 

[kingkimchi]

Ok got it. is T5000 in between ALC and ZLC or is it faster than both?

I would say faster than both but generally, it's just more reactive. The speed comes from the power you put on the ball anyways.