The Chinese Domination of Table Tennis!!!

[Draycott old man]

I've just watched most of the World Championship and I've enjoyed it so much !!! But the gap between China and the rest of the world is getting bigger and I believe that is so bad for Table Tennis!!! I just can't ever see this changing anytime soon !!!! The Chinese mental strength is massive!!! They win so many tight games !!!! They go from strength to strength while there opponents just crumble !!! But if they lose a game they just press the reset button and go again!!!! Because they know how good they are !!!! They truly believe in themselves!!!! Such a shame the rest of the world's players can't have that belief!!!

 

[JeffM]

Just the way it is.

Technique, physical conditioning, mental resilience - from top class training.

Then you have a huge population to select the best from the best to represent the country.

 

[zeio]

Tieba users view it differently. For the MS, that might be the case. But for the MD (Fan Zhendong/Wang Chuqin 3-1 Lin Shidong/Lin Gaoyuan due to seeding and poor draw), WS (Hayata 4-3 Wang Yidi), WD (Shin Yubin/Jeon Jihee 3-0 Sun Yingsha/Wang Manyu) and XD (Harimoto/Hayata 3-1 Lin Shidong/Kuai Man), China failed to complete the medal sweep. And that's considered a partial failure.

女队真没想到！！！算是近20年来历届最差的世乒赛吗？
I really didn't expect this for the women's team! ! ! Is this the worst WTTC in the past 20 years?
https://tieba.baidu.com/p/8431616461

王皓：最终是我闪耀了德班，男线全奖杯+不输外战
Wang Hao: I stole the spotlight in Durban, all trophies for the men's line + no loss in foreign battles
https://tieba.baidu.com/p/8432732086

2022年还以为国乒男队走下坡路了，结果今年重回巅峰！
I thought the Men's Team was going downhill in 2022, but it turned out to be back to the top this year!
https://tieba.baidu.com/p/8431448313

我总是有种感觉2027 2028才是张本真正巅峰的时候
I always have a feeling that 2027-2028 is when Harimoto will truly peak
https://tieba.baidu.com/p/8432058651

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I've just watched most of the World Championship and I've enjoyed it so much !!! But the gap between China and the rest of the world is getting bigger and I believe that is so bad for Table Tennis!!! I just can't ever see this changing anytime soon !!!! The Chinese mental strength is massive!!! They win so many tight games !!!! They go from strength to strength while there opponents just crumble !!! But if they lose a game they just press the reset button and go again!!!! Because they know how good they are !!!! They truly believe in themselves!!!! Such a shame the rest of the world's players can't have that belief!!!

You are right, it is bad for table tennis

Well, firstly, it starts off with seeds and draws.
So, Chinese are all protected due to seeds.
This allows Top non Chinese to fight off each other first.

The action for Chinese pretty much only starts by QF

2)
They have so much money to prepare. They get the tournament table, tournament ball (which is not the same as the DF V40+) months ahead.
When they arrived to Durban 10 days prior, they booked they own hall to replica the tournament hall to prepare.

Have to say, the fairness is not there. Japan is trying to match that, but China is steps ahead in terms of VIP treatments from the TT Brands and others

3) Many teams do not have support staff, the back end of CNT is very deep. We talking about sport science, video experts etc. Many times it is 1 non Chinese player versus a whole country, so whats the odds of success?

We haven't even talked about actual playing table tennis.
I do believe, if you remove the above 3, let CNT arrive 3 days early and use the practice hall just like everyone else. No special treatment, no support staff, maybe the gap could be closer.

Just thought to share this, as this is a different angle on how I see the challenges

 

[BaRanchik]

I don't think it's too different from Americans dominating basketball for example. Sure, it makes it more interesting to watch a game between two different nations, but personally I'd prefer seeing the most skilled players in competitions, and not the most diverse.

 

[Kuba Hajto]

Welp. Long ago, in interview on tt11 with Hungarian coach, he mentioned that the big difference is that there is big difference in athlete compensation.

 

[Choosikick]

Once upon a time, my former table tennis coach answered my question about the dominance of Chinese players in the following way - the best athletes are at the top of the pyramid, the larger the base of the pyramid, the higher it is. The base of the pyramid is made up of all players, including children and amateurs, that is, we are with you. The angle of the pyramid depends on the talent of the people in that country and other factors that are more or less the same.
China really just has a huge pyramid because of the huge number of people in general and table tennis players in particular that make up the base of the pyramid.
For a long time I thought it was so, but now I strongly doubt it. It seems to me that now is the time of completely different technologies and the angle of the pyramid can greatly influence the growth of players.

 

[Draycott old man]

You are right, it is bad for table tennis

Well, firstly, it starts off with seeds and draws.
So, Chinese are all protected due to seeds.
This allows Top non Chinese to fight off each other first.

The action for Chinese pretty much only starts by QF

2)
They have so much money to prepare. They get the tournament table, tournament ball (which is not the same as the DF V40+) months ahead.
When they arrived to Durban 10 days prior, they booked they own hall to replica the tournament hall to prepare.

Have to say, the fairness is not there. Japan is trying to match that, but China is steps ahead in terms of VIP treatments from the TT Brands and others

3) Many teams do not have support staff, the back end of CNT is very deep. We talking about sport science, video experts etc. Many times it is 1 non Chinese player versus a whole country, so whats the odds of success?

We haven't even talked about actual playing table tennis.
I do believe, if you remove the above 3, let CNT arrive 3 days early and use the practice hall just like everyone else. No special treatment, no support staff, maybe the gap could be closer.

Just thought to share this, as this is a different angle on how I see the challenges

Brilliant post!!! I hadn't even thought of the things that you have brought up!!! As you say it's not a level playing field!! I'm really not sure what the answer is !!!! The rest of the world has a lot of catching up to do !!!!

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Once upon a time, my former table tennis coach answered my question about the dominance of Chinese players in the following way - the best athletes are at the top of the pyramid, the larger the base of the pyramid, the higher it is. The base of the pyramid is made up of all players, including children and amateurs, that is, we are with you. The angle of the pyramid depends on the talent of the people in that country and other factors that are more or less the same.
China really just has a huge pyramid because of the huge number of people in general and table tennis players in particular that make up the base of the pyramid.
For a long time I thought it was so, but now I strongly doubt it. It seems to me that now is the time of completely different technologies and the angle of the pyramid can greatly influence the growth of players.

That pyramid is no longer the same

The womens are still very talented, the male part is a bit more shadow.
However, as a team, they are still very solid and i'm sure the challenges from provincial teams will be addressed.
They might not have a new Ma Long, but next grand slam is still possible

 

[Draycott old man]

My Club is trying so hard to encourage youngsters they run lots of coaching sessions for different ages !!! The challenge is to keep them interested but from what I can see there's lots of young talent coming through!!! There's just not enough clubs in England !!!

 

[MaxF_ConsisentFirst]

That pyramid is no longer the same

The womens are still very talented, the male part is a bit more shadow.
However, as a team, they are still very solid and i'm sure the challenges from provincial teams will be addressed.
They might not have a new Ma Long, but next grand slam is still possible

Completely Agree. Compare the

Women's team is still kinda dominating.

On the men's side, the gap is becoming smaller. The average overall level of the rest of the world is increasing.

 

[SFF_lib]

Foreign players used to attend the Chinese super league. But it’s a highly political competition. Japanese and Korean players are no longer invited anymore.

I wish they open up the Chinese super league to all players around the globe for the following benefits:
1- promote table tennis
2- closing the gap between the top Chinese and the rest of the world (good for the sport as a whole)
3- allow 2nd and 3rd tier Chinese players to learn from other world-class foreign players
4- getting bigger audience

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Foreign players used to attend the Chinese super league. But it’s a highly political competition. Japanese and Korean players are no longer invited anymore.

I wish they open up the Chinese super league to all players around the globe for the following benefits:
1- promote table tennis
2- closing the gap between the top Chinese and the rest of the world (good for the sport as a whole)
3- allow 2nd and 3rd tier Chinese players to learn from other world-class foreign players
4- getting bigger audience

Super league maybe
but jia a still has many foreigners

Its all depending on the olympic cycle and when CNT does not want to give foreigners a upper hand.
and covid also influence the domestic circuit

recently, my friends from Cathay table tennis just return from Shandong, playing in a local tournament there. Cathay is basically Taiwan's U15, U17, U19 national girls team.

So there is a lot happening in the background, that is not in super league.
for example earlier last year, Cambodia national team has been training in China for quite a bit.
Despite where covid restrictions was still strict, the team couldn't train with the provincial team, but the provincial team arranged a coach a few training partners and they had an isolated training, seperate to the main provincial team due to covid fear.

Another province offered scholarship for 2 Botswana national players to go study and train there for 3 or 4 years.
This also started last year.

So I would say, China's TT foreign policy is still pretty much there.
The problem is the gap between the national team's resource and in support of the players is just too vast.
I mean, CNT has its support group. DHS and DF was there to support too...

The crazy thing is, Japan has the second most resource in the world, and for them... there is still that gap.
So Wow, its not a good sign for the rest of the world. I mean, spend like Japan and still can't medal.

 

[JJ Ng]

I don't see Chinese dominance to be a problem for the sport. After all, golf was A LOT more popular when Tiger Woods was at the top and was sweeping all the majors in golf. Another poster also mentioned about Americans' dominance in basketball. When the Dream Team went to the Barcelona Olympics, everyone knew which team was going to win it all. But people were still crazy about watching the actual games. It was just a matter of how many points the dream team was going to win each game.

Before that, only "amateur" athletes could play in the Olympics. After they allowed professionals to compete in the Olympics, basketball became more popular across the globe (not the opposite).

What the problem is how you market the player. Let us be frank, it is much easier to market Michael Jordan and Tiger Woods than Ma Long. It is not about the color of your skin but it is about language barrier.

Let us use tennis as an example. Can Roger Federer conduct an interview in English? Sure. Can Ma Long conduct an interview in English? I have not seen or heard a single one. But that's a marketing issue. Has Rafael Nadel been asked to speak English in an interview on air? Yes. And Nadel's English is not as good as say Federer's. Has WTT or ITTF asked Ma Long any questions in English? No.

Let us not pick on Chinese players. Hina Hayata just won the biggest match of her career and some could argue one of the most exciting table tennis matches in the past 10 years. She is only 22. Yet her interviews were conducted in Japanese, translated by a translator. Enuff said. It is a lack of coordination and marketing effort from the top of the sport.

From the Chinese's perspective, I think they do want to make the sport more popular. If they make the sport competitive across the globe, that will make everyone, frankly, richer and more famous. I believe NBA also wanted to make basketball global and it has succeeded in doing so. Ai Fukuhara, one of the most marketable table tennis players of all time, spent years training in China. She even speaks Mandarin with a Northeastern accent. When I listen to her interview in Mandarin, I was literally cracking up. I could not believe that accent came out of a Japense athlete! That also made her one of the most beloved foreign athletes in China, along with Jan-Ove Waldner. Waldner was hugely popular in China.

NBA has basically single handedly made basketball popular across the world. The question now rests on how the Chinese contingent and ITTF/WTT together can make table tennis wildly popular across all countries. That's why people have critized ITTF over the years. There is a reason for that.

 

[zeio]

Can Ma Long conduct an interview in English?

https://youtu.be/68mmisrB1Uo?t=3186

English, Spanish and French belong to the Indo-European language family. Chinese belongs to the Sino-Tiebetan family.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_family

To give the English/Spanish/French speakers a rough idea just how difficult it is for them to converse in English:
https://ai.googleblog.com/2016/09/a-neural-network-for-machine.html

Table tennis and badminton are 2 racket sports dominated by East Asian countries and regions, among which China is the biggest market. We have had Fukuhara, Ishikawa, and now Kihara from Japan conducting interviews in Chinese. I've been waiting for an Axelsen of table tennis from Europe.
https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV17...ck&vd_source=9b4bee64b7435c626607968135e168b3
https://olympics.com/en/video/viktor-axelsen-mandarin-china-badminton

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I don't see Chinese dominance to be a problem for the sport. After all, golf was A LOT more popular when Tiger Woods was at the top and was sweeping all the majors in golf. Another poster also mentioned about Americans' dominance in basketball. When the Dream Team went to the Barcelona Olympics, everyone knew which team was going to win it all. But people were still crazy about watching the actual games. It was just a matter of how many points the dream team was going to win each game.

Before that, only "amateur" athletes could play in the Olympics. After they allowed professionals to compete in the Olympics, basketball became more popular across the globe (not the opposite).

NBA has basically single handedly made basketball popular across the world. The question now rests on how the Chinese contingent and ITTF/WTT together can make table tennis wildly popular across all countries. That's why people have critized ITTF over the years. There is a reason for that.

basketball is not popular because of team USA
but rather individual basketball teams in the NBA
I think that is a big difference.
You do not have a NBA for table tennis. If there was, which I think we do need one, then, TT can actually have some hope.

I actually feel, country vs country should be the second priority. but right now, it is the first.
There is no real world wide club TT championships, like the NBA has, where all the talents are there, and then they take on other champions from other continents.
Of course individual vs team sport is very different, but with how China and Japan, and now Korea market its "teams" TT league, I do feel it is doable.

So, like soccer, or basketball, or baseball, the Pro team is the club team, and that should be number 1.
Then internationals should be number 2.
This will remove power from ITTF (with WTT) and all national associations too. and really make a business out of the sport for people who wants the "Market Value" of the sport to become bigger.

Why can't Team A has Ma Long, Dima, Harimoto, and Team B has Fan, Boll, Hugo, and Team C has WCQ, LYJ, Moregard.

Only people stopping this from happening is ITTF and CNT. Since they will loose market value, and with that, power.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Let us use tennis as an example. Can Roger Federer conduct an interview in English? Sure. Can Ma Long conduct an interview in English? I have not seen or heard a single one. But that's a marketing issue. Has Rafael Nadel been asked to speak English in an interview on air? Yes. And Nadel's English is not as good as say Federer's. Has WTT or ITTF asked Ma Long any questions in English? No.

Let us not pick on Chinese players. Hina Hayata just won the biggest match of her career and some could argue one of the most exciting table tennis matches in the past 10 years. She is only 22. Yet her interviews were conducted in Japanese, translated by a translator. Enuff said. It is a lack of coordination and marketing effort from the top of the sport.

I do think you forgot one very important point.
Ma Long or Hina Hayata is speaking for their fans.
If Federer's fans was majority say French and can't speak English. I am sure he would have more French interviews, than a language his majority fans won't understand.

Since it is a global stage, and English is the international business language, but not the official Earth language, there is nothing wrong for the players to speak in a language that they few comfortable with.

Go look at the UN, or WHO or any world body. each will speak in the language they are comfortable with.
And saying they should speak one language over the other, is not necessary marketing. Since some understand, the rest won't. If you really want to make sense, irrespective on the language, I don't think that is a problem.

Now back to Table Tennis
China and Japan are the biggest and 2nd biggest table tennis market in the world.
If any, TT fans should be learning Chinese and Japanese.
Japanese players learn more Chinese than English, why? learning table tennis in Chinese is extremely important.
If you are bilingual, listen to Chinese table tennis commentary versus English. It's day and night apart.

Now coming back to the players and "schooling".
I'm not sure how many hours of schooling tennis and basketball athletes must have

But it is not uncommon that these elite TT players had little or no school.
Train 6 hours a day, school maybe 3.5 hours a day. it is almost a 2 to 1 ratio.
I'm not sure where they can find time to learn a language while being a junior.
Most I know, learnt it being a senior and playing the sport say in Europe for few years, and just become better over time. There is no time to learn anything as a TT junior in Asia.

 

[Kuba Hajto]

basketball is not popular because of team USA
but rather individual basketball teams in the NBA
I think that is a big difference.
You do not have a NBA for table tennis. If there was, which I think we do need one, then, TT can actually have some hope.

I think that ETTU is trying to do. When I look for some international table tennis I actually look to Bundesliga. Bundesliga camera sucks tho.

 

[Draycott old man]

I do think you forgot one very important point.
Ma Long or Hina Hayata is speaking for their fans.
If Federer's fans was majority say French and can't speak English. I am sure he would have more French interviews, than a language his majority fans won't understand.

Since it is a global stage, and English is the international business language, but not the official Earth language, there is nothing wrong for the players to speak in a language that they few comfortable with.

Go look at the UN, or WHO or any world body. each will speak in the language they are comfortable with.
And saying they should speak one language over the other, is not necessary marketing. Since some understand, the rest won't. If you really want to make sense, irrespective on the language, I don't think that is a problem.

Now back to Table Tennis
China and Japan are the biggest and 2nd biggest table tennis market in the world.
If any, TT fans should be learning Chinese and Japanese.
Japanese players learn more Chinese than English, why? learning table tennis in Chinese is extremely important.
If you are bilingual, listen to Chinese table tennis commentary versus English. It's day and night apart.

Now coming back to the players and "schooling".
I'm not sure how many hours of schooling tennis and basketball athletes must have

But it is not uncommon that these elite TT players had little or no school.
Train 6 hours a day, school maybe 3.5 hours a day. it is almost a 2 to 1 ratio.
I'm not sure where they can find time to learn a language while being a junior.
Most I know, learnt it being a senior and playing the sport say in Europe for few years, and just become better over time. There is no time to learn anything as a TT junior in Asia.

A massive problem is outside China Table Tennis is not that popular around the World and until we can attract more people into this amazing sport things will never change!!! I remember watching live table tennis at club level for first time and from then on I was hooked!! It's just not the same watching table tennis on T.V as watching it live !!!! We need to demonstrate our wonderful sport live to more people and I truly believe there would be more people hooked like I was !!!! Not sure how you can make it happen?? But really believe it would make a massive difference!!!! Maybe going into school's and show our sport to the children!!! Even if they watched good club players they would be impressed!!! Just a idea!!!

 

[blahness]

Doesn't help that WTT organises all these events with hardly anyone in the stands, cringe af music and worse camera angles and unprofessional presentation.

Hard to get ppl interested if these rank amateurs are at the helm of the sport. TT should just hire some of the planning and marketing guys from pickleball.