Used Viscaria and Innerforce? Help!

[Siyata]

Hey i've been using Viscaria ST and d09c x2 for about a year. My strong side has always been FH spinny loops and spinny serves, im also good on BH block/chop, but lately ive felt a bit more unsure on my FH in matches mostly, I have tons of practise vs underspin and counterspin but somehow im choking more into playing more defensively on BH and just wait for them to do mistake which feels horrible.

I am in love with the rubbers as i tested many different on viscaria and a wood blade. So I'm thinking slightly slower blade might help me with the confidence (Along with PRACTISE!). But what do you think about trying a swap to butterfly innerforce Layer ALC? Would this give a noticable feel/speed reduction that would help? The idea just came from simple trying what works for others, many pro's use Ovtcharov or similar, after research the layer ALC seems to be very similar to what they're using but slower. and That it "should" feel a bit softer/more control/slower, not a lot but noticable. Anyone have experience on this?

Thanks in advance!

 

[SFF_lib]

Changing the blade takes much longer to get used to. Overall changing equipment won't help choking as it largely stems from mentality.

I learned this psy training in a Chinese session, you can try.

• you vs your coah.
• you're leading 9-7
• Your coach plays hard to overtake you 10-9
• You have to play on determined to win
• Get as many people to watch you as if it's a real tournament
• Get a camera recording
• Repeat with a tougher level like 9-5 and coach take 5pts in a row

I learned from Fang Bo's episode. In your mind, minimise the number to the beginning of the game to help you relieve the pressure.

For example you're leading 9-1 and you got caught up to 9-7. Don't think of 9-7, think of as 2-0.

 

[Siyata]

i thank you for the insight. but i dont feel preassure like that. i meant in practise also. more like "match game style" of balls. With alot of shots on underspin or counter topspins. Didnt have problem with this before but after the summer break it felt scuffed. and havnt gotten back my shape. this is new to me

 

[TampaBayTableTennis]

if you were doing well with this setup before the break, and you are training hard and improving with plans to continue doing so, then i'd say don't worry about it.

 

[Siyata]

yeah maybe im just imagining stuff! Thinking like "oh maybe my rubbers gotten shit after 8 months" "oh maybe my blade is too fast". might just need practise more times per week!

 

[SFF_lib]

yeah maybe im just imagining stuff! Thinking like "oh maybe my rubbers gotten shit after 8 months" "oh maybe my blade is too fast". might just need practise more times per week!

Who knows? That might be the problem!! A new BH rubber? 😉

 

[steve888]

Dignics 09c works well on both Innerforce and harimoto Innerforce blades. Slightly slower and a little more control than on my FZD alc blade. You don't overshoot the table so much and easier close to the table play too.

 

[Ash0210]

Hey i've been using Viscaria ST and d09c x2 for about a year. My strong side has always been FH spinny loops and spinny serves, im also good on BH block/chop, but lately ive felt a bit more unsure on my FH in matches mostly, I have tons of practise vs underspin and counterspin but somehow im choking more into playing more defensively on BH and just wait for them to do mistake which feels horrible.

I am in love with the rubbers as i tested many different on viscaria and a wood blade. So I'm thinking slightly slower blade might help me with the confidence (Along with PRACTISE!). But what do you think about trying a swap to butterfly innerforce Layer ALC? Would this give a noticable feel/speed reduction that would help? The idea just came from simple trying what works for others, many pro's use Ovtcharov or similar, after research the layer ALC seems to be very similar to what they're using but slower. and That it "should" feel a bit softer/more control/slower, not a lot but noticable. Anyone have experience on this?

Thanks in advance!

hi there, i hope my experience with these two blades helps you out. Ive been using the viscaria for nearly 6 years and decided to go to the Ovtcharov alc. Why?reason 1: wanted a bit more control in the passive game ,
and i wasnt playing competitively much hence innerforce made more sense.reason 2: wanted something new LOL
Trying both these blades with dignics05 here are the pros compared to the Viscaria-
1.Softer touch and easier short game/ service recieve
2. Significantly higher arc, helps both in attacking underspin( flicks and lifts) and relatively dead balls.
3. Noticeably more spin compared to viscaria
Cons- Passive blocking is a nightmare on the backhand side.The same high arc that allows easier attacks makes the ball overshoot quite a bit on blocks, couldnt get used to this particular thing even with 2 months of practice, even though im backhand dominant!In terms of overall speed not a huge difference but passive blocking is a huge drawback.It forces active play on both sides, though forehand blocks are still manageable. Viscaria is much better when it comes to passive blocks.If you have been successful in practice and not in matches its mostly about the 09c you are using, really demanding rubber. The dignics 05 on the other hand will make life a lot easier. My brother who is usatt 1600 can still play with my viscaria and produce good results.
And if you are getting coached it will make your transition to 05 a lot easier.
In my opinion stick to viscaria and try dignics 05 or even rakza 7 if not sure, its pretty easy to use and will give a good sense of tensor/springy rubber response on the blade.

 

[SlowPower]

Maybe you should try a Viscaria with at least 5g less weight. Should be slower and has better feeling....

 

[Siyata]

hi there, i hope my experience with these two blades helps you out. Ive been using the viscaria for nearly 6 years and decided to go to the Ovtcharov alc. Why?reason 1: wanted a bit more control in the passive game ,
and i wasnt playing competitively much hence innerforce made more sense.reason 2: wanted something new LOL
Trying both these blades with dignics05 here are the pros compared to the Viscaria-
1.Softer touch and easier short game/ service recieve
2. Significantly higher arc, helps both in attacking underspin( flicks and lifts) and relatively dead balls.
3. Noticeably more spin compared to viscaria
Cons- Passive blocking is a nightmare on the backhand side.The same high arc that allows easier attacks makes the ball overshoot quite a bit on blocks, couldnt get used to this particular thing even with 2 months of practice, even though im backhand dominant!In terms of overall speed not a huge difference but passive blocking is a huge drawback.It forces active play on both sides, though forehand blocks are still manageable. Viscaria is much better when it comes to passive blocks.If you have been successful in practice and not in matches its mostly about the 09c you are using, really demanding rubber. The dignics 05 on the other hand will make life a lot easier. My brother who is usatt 1600 can still play with my viscaria and produce good results.
And if you are getting coached it will make your transition to 05 a lot easier.
In my opinion stick to viscaria and try dignics 05 or even rakza 7 if not sure, its pretty easy to use and will give a good sense of tensor/springy rubber response on the blade.

Thanks! Interesting insight about passive blocking being harder/flying far going from Viscaria to Innerforce. But we have different rubber so might not be the same for me as you use D05 and me D09C. Also the innerforce you used is fastest one I think of them all. Might try something out soon and practise hard, and get back to you guys when I have an update of problem / solution

 

[Ash0210]

Thanks! Interesting insight about passive blocking being harder/flying far going from Viscaria to Innerforce. But we have different rubber so might not be the same for me as you use D05 and me D09C. Also the innerforce you used is fastest one I think of them all. Might try something out soon and practise hard, and get back to you guys when I have an update of problem / solution

Yep, 09c on the backhand would change things as far as blocks/passive game is concerned but in terms of overall speed i dont think its going to be a major difference between dima innerforce and viscaria. I dont think you have an equipment problem, maybe just lack of practice and a dip in confidence has got you doubting yourself. Put in the training hours buddy, start ripping those backhands.

 

[MORTtheORT]

Hey i've been using Viscaria ST and d09c x2 for about a year. My strong side has always been FH spinny loops and spinny serves, im also good on BH block/chop, but lately ive felt a bit more unsure on my FH in matches mostly, I have tons of practise vs underspin and counterspin but somehow im choking more into playing more defensively on BH and just wait for them to do mistake which feels horrible.

I am in love with the rubbers as i tested many different on viscaria and a wood blade. So I'm thinking slightly slower blade might help me with the confidence (Along with PRACTISE!). But what do you think about trying a swap to butterfly innerforce Layer ALC? Would this give a noticable feel/speed reduction that would help? The idea just came from simple trying what works for others, many pro's use Ovtcharov or similar, after research the layer ALC seems to be very similar to what they're using but slower. and That it "should" feel a bit softer/more control/slower, not a lot but noticable. Anyone have experience on this?

Thanks in advance!

I can get this very same problem and fall into the trap of not playing my game....You could try the Glazyer 09C? It is the same topsheet as the D09C (unforgiving if you become passive) but with a friendlier sponge hardness. Otherwise have a session with a coach to fix your problem as it is properly more a technique issue then gear related.....if I am suddenly struggling with open ups, the first thing I focus on is making sure I start my back swing early while moving so I am in position as I arrive to play my shot...gives me more time to play a higher quality shot....a coach showed me this as a tool to fix it up in a game situation and it snaps me out of it and I go back on the attack.

 

[Siyata]

Thanks! I dont think glazyer would be better but i can try it sometime one guy has it in my club.

Coach is hard to get for me.

But I ended up getting blade and new(same) rubbers at same time, and so far it feels like the issue is completely solved, my FH feels 200% better and is now my strongest again. However my enemies have not been top quality so I will know more for sure once i face harder opponents. But yeah im struggling a little bit with my backhand push/chop/receives instead. That it feels like they go too high or too far. But I had this issue when my previous racket was new aswell, but after some months that was NO issue at all. so It might be fine when ive practised more and rubber been used a bit more. So all in all feels much better now but a bit insecure on my push/chop when receving or mid game. I will also try keep your advice in mind about the swing early to be in position, thanks!

 

[MORTtheORT]

Thanks! I dont think glazyer would be better but i can try it sometime one guy has it in my club.

Coach is hard to get for me.

But I ended up getting blade and new(same) rubbers at same time, and so far it feels like the issue is completely solved, my FH feels 200% better and is now my strongest again. However my enemies have not been top quality so I will know more for sure once i face harder opponents. But yeah im struggling a little bit with my backhand push/chop/receives instead. That it feels like they go too high or too far. But I had this issue when my previous racket was new aswell, but after some months that was NO issue at all. so It might be fine when ive practised more and rubber been used a bit more. So all in all feels much better now but a bit insecure on my push/chop when receving or mid game. I will also try keep your advice in mind about the swing early to be in position, thanks!

Good result on the FH side, feel is key to improvement. It is difficult when you can't get access to a coach. For your backhand, maybe ask someone to feed light backspin balls to you then heavy backspin to see if there is a difference with your push. Would be interesting to see if you struggle more with light backspin. If you are playing low level players and the ball is popping up, it could be that they are not actually putting spin on the ball but sending you no spin without even knowing it. I do a lot of this in matches, lots of looking like I am putting lots of spin but actually sending no spin (or even top spin with a cheeky wrist flick, or side of the ball contact) to get the ball to pop up so I can end the point. I particularly do this if it is a player that just wants to push over the table low at me to take their confidence away from their own game...if it is light to no backspin over the table, use it as training on your flick and remember you have time so wait for the ball to be at or near the top of the bounce. Also make sure your grip is relaxed when pushing (not floppy as you need wrist control still). Try just holding your blade with your thumb and forefinger and see what happens as it sounds like you are tense due to a lack of confidence. In general for me, if the pull pops up from a push...then I should have attacked this ball positively, not pushed. Side note, if you push and chop alot, have you tried long pimples?

 

[Siyata]

Thanks. I think in normal gameplay its less of an issue. Its more noticable when I have to receive tricky serves. In one match i ended up doing FH across whole table and then i won tons, but after a while he learned how to expose this cheese. So yeah i guess heavy backspins , i used to push/chop it back easily (not sure which word is correct in english). but yeah right now im not as safe doing this resulting in worse receives. I usually use heavy backspin back to try make it more safe. so i use BH for push/block mostly and whenever i can use my FH i always loop/smash

But as i said i think and hope this problem will fade automaticly due to getting used to new blade and rubbers becoming more used. But any tips is always welcome

Never tried pimples im not really chopping far away. i kinda laugh at the thought of it, but maybe it would be good lol. but it feels more like you give up then instead of learning to play with BH. My BH push/block used to be really good so , also a waste if i can get those back! My BH loop and smash is not as good though but i succeed sometimes

 

[MORTtheORT]

Thanks. I think in normal gameplay its less of an issue. Its more noticable when I have to receive tricky serves. In one match i ended up doing FH across whole table and then i won tons, but after a while he learned how to expose this cheese. So yeah i guess heavy backspins , i used to push/chop it back easily (not sure which word is correct in english). but yeah right now im not as safe doing this resulting in worse receives. I usually use heavy backspin back to try make it more safe. so i use BH for push/block mostly and whenever i can use my FH i always loop/smash

But as i said i think and hope this problem will fade automaticly due to getting used to new blade and rubbers becoming more used. But any tips is always welcome

Never tried pimples im not really chopping far away. i kinda laugh at the thought of it, but maybe it would be good lol. but it feels more like you give up then instead of learning to play with BH. My BH push/block used to be really good so , also a waste if i can get those back! My BH loop and smash is not as good though but i succeed sometimes

If you normally have a strong BH then stay away from pimples unless you are willing to twiddle (Flip rubber sides while playing). On the serve, I have a sneaky feeling you might be reading backspin when there is no spin on the ball. In saying that, I had the 09C on my backhand but have just moved away from it over the last 6 weeks because it is very unforgiving on the BH for me. FH, it is a great rubber but I found it very demanding on the BH and my shot quality was affected if I was not moving well enough in a match. Long story short, I was getting tired in long tournaments, so I went to a backhand that was a bit safer and didn't require me to always be in a perfect position for each shot. Your blade (BH-focused blade) is very good at positive BH play, so play with confidence and flick that ball into a topspin game.

 

[Siyata]

My BH is strong when it comes to defensive push/chop/block yes normally. Loop/smash not strong but working on it.

I dont think im misreading the serves but who knows. used to take them all, now i dont.

Either cuz of new blade or rubbers are fresh. I tried taking serves with rakza 7 / rakza 7 soft / rakza Z , but 09c was BY FAR the easiest for me. (on viscaria and used rubber for some months cuz i only had it on FH first then i fliped it to BH and bought a new one for FH). So i do think this rubber should be okay option for me but theres always a chance some other rubber would be better. My worst was Rakza Z it flew up to the sky.

Didnt know this blade was BH focused, just wanted something slightly easier than viscaria to push my FH game which worked really well so far , and some combo that is close to what good players use (innerforce harimoto layer alc / innerforce orvachov)

Thank you for your advice but I think my plan stays the same to just wear down the rubber and keep practise the push/receives to have it as a defensive weapon as i used to. Pimples would maybe be cool, but then I would also lose some of my best serves. I have 2 very good BH , and 2 very good FH, so i try mix those 4 in different ways for best results. A backup plan would be to change rubber in the future but i think i can make this work. Also who knows maybe i should go pimples and just flip the racket when i serve? but yeah I dont wanna take the easy way yet

 

[NextLevel]

Stick with your blade, use Dignics 80 or 64. 05 needs active backhand for optimal play, 80 and 64 reqard passive play far better. 80 is still great if you want to remain offensive, 64 is quick but not as spinny.

 

[Siyata]

Stick with which one? I already swaped from Viscaria to Innerforce one and my FH is sick now (but i still have viscaria with old d09c rubbers left)

I dont have dignics 05. you mean Dignics 80 or 64 is better than dignics 09c for me on BH? that sounds interesting! Dignics 09c helped me starting to learn looping on BH i liked that, and defensive play worked good (when rubbers weared down more), but yeah as fresh rubbers its hard. 80 or 64 sounds cool, will try find someone at club that has it to try it out. but could be hard. might take a chance on it if current setup feels whack after longer time

I have one suspicion though, are they softer? cause as I said rakza 7 soft , and rakza Z, just gaev opposite horrible results. will research more on 80 and 64

As I mentioned before, just wearing down my BH rubber a bit i think could be enough for me to get back the control. But yeah I also need to focus on practise , and/or have an alternative rubber in mind if it doesnt work for a long time.

 

[MORTtheORT]

My BH is strong when it comes to defensive push/chop/block yes normally. Loop/smash not strong but working on it.

I dont think im misreading the serves but who knows. used to take them all, now i dont.

Either cuz of new blade or rubbers are fresh. I tried taking serves with rakza 7 / rakza 7 soft / rakza Z , but 09c was BY FAR the easiest for me. (on viscaria and used rubber for some months cuz i only had it on FH first then i fliped it to BH and bought a new one for FH). So i do think this rubber should be okay option for me but theres always a chance some other rubber would be better. My worst was Rakza Z it flew up to the sky.

Didnt know this blade was BH focused, just wanted something slightly easier than viscaria to push my FH game which worked really well so far , and some combo that is close to what good players use (innerforce harimoto layer alc / innerforce orvachov)

Thank you for your advice but I think my plan stays the same to just wear down the rubber and keep practise the push/receives to have it as a defensive weapon as i used to. Pimples would maybe be cool, but then I would also lose some of my best serves. I have 2 very good BH , and 2 very good FH, so i try mix those 4 in different ways for best results. A backup plan would be to change rubber in the future but i think i can make this work

If it works best for you, then keep using it. It is interesting that you play defensively with an offensive style rubber. The D09C is nice and hard and a bit of tack, which is good but more lively than chopping/defensive rubbers normally are...Maybe in future, don't go Max on your backhand and get a 1.9mm for better control? Maybe it would help and set up your FH attacks better?