Waldner or Ma Long?

[Matt Hetherington]

Yea but the forum is full of modern and new players, they wouldn't identify with guo as much

 

[TT Guru]

I just think TT is is such a fast game nowadays, one needs to have mental toughness. Not that other sports doesn't need it, but in TT it's invaluable. Waldner was so relax, and that's what great players do. They're able to absorb pressures that would leave most players weak in the knees. The way he plays his shots nonchalantly was just ridiculous. Looking at Waldner playing, no one would ever guessed that TT is a difficult sport. But, you and I know that it's not true at all.

Yeah, his slow now, and he lacks the brute power that some of the top players have now, but it just shows in TT, power is definitely not everything.

Remember, it was even faster in Walder's era with the 38mm ball and speed glue!
That's one more reason we can't compare the two players. Waldner was in his prime with the 38mm ball...

 

[ttmonster]

I completely agree with you Matt , thats the reason he can still handle faster players today with his spin blocks

Remember, it was even faster in Walder's era with the 38mm ball and speed glue!
That's one more reason we can't compare the two players. Waldner was in his prime with the 38mm ball...

 

[GECA]

I have voted for Waldner

 

[Matt Hetherington]

I have voted for Waldner

Good on ya Love it how it merited an announcement

 

[azlan]

Absolutely TTG, it was during the 38mm and speed glue era the guy is something else.

 

[CJ]

Im not im being realistic not nostalgic

 

[jmillsy2]

Im gonna share my views....
in terms of power & speed , ma long is obviously better, however i think that in terms of skill and touch, waldner takes that.
One massive thing to consider here is that waldner had to change his game several times during his career due to rule changes eg no hidden serves, 11 points 2 serves only etc, whereas ma only had to change to non speed glue, and he was much younger than waldner when that change came into force, so he was not as affected by it as waldner was by his changes.
We must also remember that waldner has won a lot, nd although ma long is still young, he has shown that in big comps, he mental toughness can be somewhat, lacking, and his game cannot compensate for that due to its nature.
One final point- waldner got to the olympic semis at what, 40ish? i dont think ma long will ever do that (remembering waldner had to beat both ma lin and timo boll when they were both higher ranked than now, and ma long still loses to ma lin occasionally, when waldner beat him in his prime. i think also because of the longevity of his career, Waldner is better- i do not think ma long will be this good for that long- his game cant take it.
If anyone wonders, i voted waldner lol

 

[Matt Hetherington]

lol with that fantastic comment i don't think u left anyone wondering

 

[YosuaYosan]

Im gonna share my views....
in terms of power & speed , ma long is obviously better, however i think that in terms of skill and touch, waldner takes that.
One massive thing to consider here is that waldner had to change his game several times during his career due to rule changes eg no hidden serves, 11 points 2 serves only etc, whereas ma only had to change to non speed glue, and he was much younger than waldner when that change came into force, so he was not as affected by it as waldner was by his changes.
We must also remember that waldner has won a lot, nd although ma long is still young, he has shown that in big comps, he mental toughness can be somewhat, lacking, and his game cannot compensate for that due to its nature.
One final point- waldner got to the olympic semis at what, 40ish? i dont think ma long will ever do that (remembering waldner had to beat both ma lin and timo boll when they were both higher ranked than now, and ma long still loses to ma lin occasionally, when waldner beat him in his prime. i think also because of the longevity of his career, Waldner is better- i do not think ma long will be this good for that long- his game cant take it.
If anyone wonders, i voted waldner lol

Smart
I concur

 

[the_M]

Waldner is an all time fave of me cause i just like his sometimes lazy but brilliant blocking....he is known not to be the greatest sportsmen he himself said that it's normal for him to rush a serve when he is winning to leave the opponent no time to recover. Not very nice i think.

Waldner never had this great competition in his great days. If Ma Long wouldn't have Zhang, Wang, Xu, Ma Lin, Fang Bo and so on as his direct competion he would sure as hell won all great titles in the past. Waldner did have a few very good players to match him but not nearly as much as Ma Long has. Take the Rest of the Chinese Team out of the equation and Ma Long would only sometimes loose to Boll or some Japanese or Korean player but he wouldn't really have any competion.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Waldner is an all time fave of me cause i just like his sometimes lazy but brilliant blocking....he is known not to be the greatest sportsmen he himself said that it's normal for him to rush a serve when he is winning to leave the opponent no time to recover. Not very nice i think.

Waldner never had this great competition in his great days. If Ma Long wouldn't have Zhang, Wang, Xu, Ma Lin, Fang Bo and so on as his direct competion he would sure as hell won all great titles in the past. Waldner did have a few very good players to match him but not nearly as much as Ma Long has. Take the Rest of the Chinese Team out of the equation and Ma Long would only sometimes loose to Boll or some Japanese or Korean player but he wouldn't really have any competion.

Actually, I think someone pointed out that Waldner beat 3 generations of Chinese teams and European players who were, at that time, more competitive. Gatien, Saive, Persson, Appelgren, Primorac and he beat Kong, Gouliang, Ma Lin, Wang Liqin, in their prime. The only REAL competition Ma Long has these days is from the Chinese National Team. And again, in 2009 Waldner gave Ma Long way more trouble than he should be able to, given that he is fat, out of shape, has a bad back, cannot move and was 45 at the time:

 

[mircea1327]

Brilliant posts guys.. sums it up,, maybe its hard for younger fans to appreciate just how good this guy was,,, watch a few more you tube s to discover how no one ,,no one has the artistry, subtlety and sheer poetry of winning points....as the incomparable waldner,,,,The great thing is that a lot of sheer skillfull, brilliant sportpeople have a flaky or questionable temperment,, the exact opposite is true of j,o... brilliant.

All true !! Tks for the great post !

 

[harrybelafonte]

All true !! Tks for the great post !

chers,,, he is a legend,,,

 

[harrybelafonte]

Hi melon head here...just a ,little jibe on another post , but I will reply sensibly here....
My point was ,, and still is ,,, the best players in all sport win under the greatest pressure,,, my point was and is although Ma long is defo no1 player in the world at the min,,, I have seen him live many times...he is brilliant..but ,,,,but,,, under extreme pressure of the highest calibre he does seem to just wobble,, choke,, falter,, call it whatever you like.. dont get me wrong I wanted him to beat wang hao in rotterdam,,,,and he should have,,, but failed..He wins pro tour events for fun,,,but they are just apperitifes...not the main dish....
Maybe liu guoliang knows more than us.... why did it take him so long to pick him as the 3rd player,,, does he trust him?
Now losing to a 17 year old in the qualiifers, a player who I would bet has never beaten him before...
Anyway he will still qualify and defo get the semi in at least in London but will he do a Waldner and win it
..Just off for a slice of my fav fruit..... Melons....

 

[azlan]

It was indeed a shocking lost. I saw the match live and I couldn't believe how much trouble he was in. The Olympics qualifying system is soooo confusing, but at the end of the day he could still go but probably be playing only in the team event.

 

[harrybelafonte]

He s through, ma and ryu,,, but not sure how the seeding works in the olympics,, are all chinese in one half?
qualifiers are a minefield to follow... no brits through ,,,!!! shame..

 

[scylla24]

Guys guys guys. STOP!!!! Waldner has beaten all of them, jiang jialiang, teng yi, wang liqin, liu guoliang, ma long, ma lin, you name it! Waldner has won the olympics, world championships (without loosing a set 1997), European champion. No one is close to what Waldner has done! And remember, he is old old old and still plays in bundesliga.. Ma long is good now but have only been that for a couple of months, not for 10 years!

Sweden <3

A lot of people harp on about the fact that Waldner is old and still plays, but lets be honest, table tennis while it requires a lot of physical ability to stay at the tippy top, its not like a lot of the other big professional sports in terms of its physical requirements. I lose to tons of older folks, who physically can't even hold a candle to my physical ability, but the reason for that is because table tennis requires a lot of other things, such as experience, and timing which, even if you are old, you don't lose much on. I mean honestly if you look Kong Linghui, and asked him to start training again and competing again, I have no doubt that after probably 6 months he would be better than almost all the non Chinese players. Same can be said about Wang Liqin, who is one of the people who works the hardest to keep in shape and keep his body in top form. As long as he continues the will to compete, people like him could very well match Waldner in terms of his longevity, and probably outdo him. Its just that many of the Chinese players operate in the Chinese system which can crank out amazing players every 3-4 years. You take Wang Liqin out of China, and just have him play and he could be the top player still for just about any other country.

 

[scylla24]

Ultimately this discussion is pointless since there is no real way to compare these two players.

I do believe, however, that as a sport progresses, players tend to be better and better. Physical training, knowledge on training, knowledge on what to eat, how to work out, everything continues to accumulate. Are the Chinese people physically necessarily better than all other countries? probably not, but they do have the accumulated knowledge. Just as Waldner helped revolutionize the game, players after him have done so also. Table tennis is such a different sport compared with what it was when Waldner was at his prime, and thats the case even if we ignored the rules changes and ball size changes.

Even if we were somehow to magically setup a game where both were at their primes, a large factor would be which ball they would use, and which rules. Waldner's style which is a lot of really impressive blocking was a product of the fact that during his time the ball was smaller and thus the game was a lot faster. You didn't have the time to put the insane amounts of spin that players put on the ball today. Instead it was more advantageous to just block it back, in which case your opponent had very little time to react. On the otherhand in today's game, its just slow enough that going for a simple speed game isn't dominate anymore, instead its better to establish your control of the point by putting on tons of top spin.

That having been said, if I had to make a decision, I would go with Ma Long. The scary thing is, Ma Long is still young. He is either not yet in his prime or just reaching it. That is a scary thing to consider. Most players reach their peak from like 25-28 or so, where their experience and their physical abilities combine to reach its peak. Ma Long this past year has already been pretty dominant, think of what it would be like if he continued to improve and had another 4-5 years of absolutely top level table tennis.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

You didn't have the time to put the insane amounts of spin that players put on the ball today. Instead it was more advantageous to just block it back, in which case your opponent had very little time to react.

Just a technical point. The smaller ball got an outrageous amount more spin than the 40mm ball. The were actually putting a lot more spin on the ball back then. The larger diameter makes it so that the ball will not spin as fast.