What additional titles will put FZD as equally decorated as ML (besides another Olympics gold ofc)?

[nonsleeper]

This doesn't attempt to ignite the GOAT debate. We all know that it's unsolvable till kingdom come, if we're lucky.

So if FZD wins in LA then I think few would disagree they are equally decorated. He would lead ML by a Olympics silver and a WC but trail behind a World Championship, assuming nothing else changes. But imo these differences matter quite little considering that they both snatch 2 complete grand slams.

What's more interesting is what if he won't get another Olympics gold. Can any quantity and composition of Cups and/or Championships make up for that then? I think potential contenders may be 2 Championships or 1 Championship + 2 Cups.

What do you think?

 

[zeio]

中国男乒单打成绩历史排名 (Historical Ranking of MS Results for CNT)
https://tieba.baidu.com/p/9116874976

国乒总成绩排名 (Ranking of Overall Results for CNT)
https://tieba.baidu.com/p/9125497951

 

[pongfugrasshopper]

This doesn't attempt to ignite the GOAT debate. We all know that it's unsolvable till kingdom come, if we're lucky.

So if FZD wins in LA then I think few would disagree they are equally decorated. He would lead ML by a Olympics silver and a WC but trail behind a World Championship, assuming nothing else changes. But imo these differences matter quite little considering that they both snatch 2 complete grand slams.

What's more interesting is what if he won't get another Olympics gold. Can any quantity and composition of Cups and/or Championships make up for that then? I think potential contenders may be 2 Championships or 1 Championship + 2 Cups.

What do you think?

You can count me in with the few that disagree they would be equally decorated even if he wins in LA. For one, Olympic silver is meaningless to the Chinese. It's just a reminder that you didn't win gold. In addition to winning Olympic gold at LA 2028, he would definitely need to win another World Championship to be equal footing. Also, FZD's first World Championship to me has an asterisk in that China had to hold back Ma Long so that FZD could win it. FZD is already one of the all time greats no doubt, but if you want to say he's Ma Long's equal, then he's got to do the same as Ma Long.

 

[zeio]

Fan Zhendong missing:
1 OG
1 WTTC
3 WTGF (including the ITTF Finals 2020)
2 ATTC
2 Asian Cup
1 National Games

The concept of making up with more titles of a lower tier was rather prevalent (still apparent in the table of the Tieba thread I linked) when comparing Wang Liqin, Ma Lin and Wang Hao to Liu Guoliang and Kong Linghui, but ever since Zhang Jike broke the stalemate by winning a 2nd WTTC, a 2nd World Cup and just 1 OG away from completing the Grand Slam a second time, which was ultimately blocked and achieved by Ma Long, Fan Zhendong has been held to the higher and stricter standard.

And for the time being, nobody care about the WTT titles.

 

[zeio]

In China, WTT Cup Finals (as it was known in 2021 and 2022) and WTT Finals (2023 and onward) are currently considered as separate from WTGF because the former two were treated as a combination of WTGF and World Cup. But with World Cup being restarted in 2024, WTT Finals will probably be considered as equivalent to WTGF. Time will tell.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Is the current WTT Finals the equivalent to ITTF WTGF?

in today's world, WTT Smash is worth the same amount of world ranking points as OG, which I disagree but some people feel the same points are fine.

so in the world of WTT, maybe Smash/Champions titles will also come into effect for the future, since WTT is going to be around for another 12+ years.
These tournament are forced participation for the worlds best and who knows what else will come in the future that could get close to GS status

 

[TensorBackhand]

This doesn't attempt to ignite the GOAT debate. We all know that it's unsolvable till kingdom come, if we're lucky.

So if FZD wins in LA then I think few would disagree they are equally decorated. He would lead ML by a Olympics silver and a WC but trail behind a World Championship, assuming nothing else changes. But imo these differences matter quite little considering that they both snatch 2 complete grand slams.

What's more interesting is what if he won't get another Olympics gold. Can any quantity and composition of Cups and/or Championships make up for that then? I think potential contenders may be 2 Championships or 1 Championship + 2 Cups.

What do you think?

I'd like to see him get a final big win over Ma Long. Even though ML is far from his prime...it still seems like on the big stage ML has memorable wins over FZD but not the reverse.

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

Additional FZD title:
1. The only CNT player to have his personal belongings stolen from his hotel room.
2. A bona-fide Swifties' fan.

Beat that ML!

NB: I bet ML cannot even belt out a single stanza from any Taylor Swift's song.

FZD >>> ML.

 

[nonsleeper]

You can count me in with the few that disagree they would be equally decorated even if he wins in LA. For one, Olympic silver is meaningless to the Chinese. It's just a reminder that you didn't win gold. In addition to winning Olympic gold at LA 2028, he would definitely need to win another World Championship to be equal footing. Also, FZD's first World Championship to me has an asterisk in that China had to hold back Ma Long so that FZD could win it. FZD is already one of the all time greats no doubt, but if you want to say he's Ma Long's equal, then he's got to do the same as Ma Long.

Yeah I should've dropped OG silver out. It means little not only to the Chinese but to us mortal folks, as in, when revering those demigods.
China holding ML back in 2021 Championship seems interesting. Is it more of a speculative opinion or derivable hypothesis?
Like I said, this comparison is purely from the trophy perspective rather than anything else. As a ML fan, he has been and always will be the best for me. But for us spectators of the sport in general, it's also objectively intriguing to see players challenge the legends and aspire for the new limit. Admittedly though I would be much less happy when FZD reaches or overcomes ML than when ML did JZK. But it will only do us good if younger folks like FZD keep the motivation unfaded and adapt his game to reach a new height. Especially FZD I'm gonna say, as he's the closest to ML. He's in fact more decorated than ML at the same age, but there's quite a big gap to hop over so we'll see.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Additional FZD title:
1. The only CNT player to have his personal belongings stolen from his hotel room.
2. A bona-fide Swifties' fan.

Beat that ML!

NB: I bet ML cannot even belt out a single stanza from any Taylor Swift's song.

FZD >>> ML.

what worse
underwear stolen in the hotel room
or racket broken on center court

 

[pongfugrasshopper]

Yeah I should've dropped OG silver out. It means little not only to the Chinese but to us mortal folks, as in, when revering those demigods.
China holding ML back in 2021 Championship seems interesting. Is it more of a speculative opinion or derivable hypothesis?
Like I said, this comparison is purely from the trophy perspective rather than anything else. As a ML fan, he has been and always will be the best for me. But for us spectators of the sport in general, it's also objectively intriguing to see players challenge the legends and aspire for the new limit. Admittedly though I would be much less happy when FZD reaches or overcomes ML than when ML did JZK. But it will only do us good if younger folks like FZD keep the motivation unfaded and adapt his game to reach a new height. Especially FZD I'm gonna say, as he's the closest to ML. He's in fact more decorated than ML at the same age, but there's quite a big gap to hop over so we'll see.

There was a thread on this topic on TTD that you can look over and choose to draw your own conclusions. If you keep in mind that at that time FZD had zero golds in Olympics and World Championships singles, then you can see why it's very plausible that CNT wanted to build his confidence. And the prior World Championship that ML won in 2019, he came back from injury and if I'm not mistaken, his 1st tournament was the 2019 World Championship. Crazy impressive. ML man handles FZD at the 2021 Tokyo Olympics to win gold there as well so it's reasonable to assume that FZD lost some confidence.

 

[Robin0910]

There was a thread on this topic on TTD that you can look over and choose to draw your own conclusions. If you keep in mind that at that time FZD had zero golds in Olympics and World Championships singles, then you can see why it's very plausible that CNT wanted to build his confidence. And the prior World Championship that ML won in 2019, he came back from injury and if I'm not mistaken, his 1st tournament was the 2019 World Championship. Crazy impressive. ML man handles FZD at the 2021 Tokyo Olympics to win gold there as well so it's reasonable to assume that FZD lost some confidence.

It was the Qatar Open in March 2019 and he won it

 

[Robin0910]

There was a thread on this topic on TTD that you can look over and choose to draw your own conclusions. If you keep in mind that at that time FZD had zero golds in Olympics and World Championships singles, then you can see why it's very plausible that CNT wanted to build his confidence. And the prior World Championship that ML won in 2019, he came back from injury and if I'm not mistaken, his 1st tournament was the 2019 World Championship. Crazy impressive. ML man handles FZD at the 2021 Tokyo Olympics to win gold there as well so it's reasonable to assume that FZD lost some confidence.

Also, who knows what would’ve happened had Ma Long participated in MS instead of Wang Chuqin.

 

[NextLevel]

There was a thread on this topic on TTD that you can look over and choose to draw your own conclusions. If you keep in mind that at that time FZD had zero golds in Olympics and World Championships singles, then you can see why it's very plausible that CNT wanted to build his confidence. And the prior World Championship that ML won in 2019, he came back from injury and if I'm not mistaken, his 1st tournament was the 2019 World Championship. Crazy impressive. ML man handles FZD at the 2021 Tokyo Olympics to win gold there as well so it's reasonable to assume that FZD lost some confidence.

He actually played through a lingering injury. There is a rumour that the real reason the Chinese team visited the US in late 2019 or so (my memory fails me) was that ML needed serious treatment/surgery for his knee.

 

[NextLevel]

Also, who knows what would’ve happened had Ma Long participated in MS instead of Wang Chuqin.

You are not the first to argue this, I was discussing with a friend yesterday and he said that they should just fix the rules and let the best players play, China should get 3 players (more so given the extremely low level of some continents). Though whether that encourages the growth of TT, I will leave to others to debate.

 

[TheProfessor]

in today's world, WTT Smash is worth the same amount of world ranking points as OG, which I disagree but some people feel the same points are fine.

so in the world of WTT, maybe Smash/Champions titles will also come into effect for the future, since WTT is going to be around for another 12+ years.
These tournament are forced participation for the worlds best and who knows what else will come in the future that could get close to GS status

Why will it be 12+ years for the WTT? Thanks, just curious about this Tony.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Why will it be 12+ years for the WTT? Thanks, just curious about this Tony.

They have a 15 year contract
I cant remember the start date
Maybe 12 is wrong, should be 11 years to go

 

[pongfugrasshopper]

Fan Zhendong responds to retirement rumors: I haven't considered the next Olympics yet, let time take its course​

 

[NextLevel]

Fan Zhendong responds to retirement rumors: I haven't considered the next Olympics yet, let time take its course​

That's just his personality, more Nadal than Djokovic.

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

FZD retirement plan: Work in Taylor Swift's crew. Follow her touring...