What faster blade can you recommend for the future? Thanks in advance

[zaivyi]

But I know one guy in club where I go who plays with FZD ALC

But I'm not sure about it, because I never tried these blades

 

[NetProphet]

But I know one guy in club where I go who plays with FZD ALC

Ask him about it and maybe see if you can give it a go.
FZD ALC is basically a Viscaria with a different handle.
If you play enough and get coaching then straight to a Viscaria is possible.
I'm not recommending it outright but in my opinion it's worth checking it out before dropping the $$$s.
But info think the Inner ALC is a safe bet all the same.
Anyway, good luck 👍

 

[zaivyi]

Ask him about it and maybe see if you can give it a go.
FZD ALC is basically a Viscaria with a different handle.
If you play enough and get coaching then straight to a Viscaria is possible.
I'm not recommending it outright but in my opinion it's worth checking it out before dropping the $$$s.
But info think the Inner ALC is a safe bet all the same.
Anyway, good luck 👍

Thank you for your help

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

Currently I`m using Butterfly Petr Korbel made in Japan, and I want something a bit faster then this blade for the future.

SK Seven by Bty.

 

[mightymouse]

I have Korbel (Japan), Innerforce Layer ALC (let's just say IL ALC) and Apolonia ZLC (basically a Franziska ZLC).

The above observations are correct: IL ALC and Apolonia ZLC are controllable in short game, service and service receive, just like all wood. The difference is only when you hit harder, that's when the composite kick in. So basically a Korbel on steroid.

Now, Korbel head size is 158 x 152 mm. IL ALC is more standard, only 157 x 150 mm. Therefore initially you will feel that IL ALC is a bit stiffer. On the other hand, Harimoto ALC head size is ~158 x 152 mm, similar to Korbel. So you might feel more familiar with Harimoto ALC in the beginning (coming from Korbel).

Apolonia ZLC head size is also 157 x 150 mm, but instead of 5.9 - 6.0 mm in thickness (like Korbel and IL ALC), its thickness is only 5.6-5.7 mm. So, even though it has Zylon Carbon, but it is not far different from a Korbel. I even feel that Apolonia ZLC is more similar to Korbel (but with "steroid" factor) compared to IL ALC in the beginning. The reason is that the arylate has this dampening feel.

I do not try to confuse you if you have decided to get IL ALC. IL ALC, Harimoto ALC and Apolonia ZLC are good blades. You will be fine with any of them.

 

[zaivyi]

I have Korbel (Japan), Innerforce Layer ALC (let's just say IL ALC) and Apolonia ZLC (basically a Franziska ZLC).

The above observations are correct: IL ALC and Apolonia ZLC are controllable in short game, service and service receive, just like all wood. The difference is only when you hit harder, that's when the composite kick in. So basically a Korbel on steroid.

Now, Korbel head size is 158 x 152 mm. IL ALC is more standard, only 157 x 150 mm. Therefore initially you will feel that IL ALC is a bit stiffer. On the other hand, Harimoto ALC head size is ~158 x 152 mm, similar to Korbel. So you might feel more familiar with Harimoto ALC in the beginning (coming from Korbel).

Apolonia ZLC head size is also 157 x 150 mm, but instead of 5.9 - 6.0 mm in thickness (like Korbel and IL ALC), its thickness is only 5.6-5.7 mm. So, even though it has Zylon Carbon, but it is not far different from a Korbel. I even feel that Apolonia ZLC is more similar to Korbel (but with "steroid" factor) compared to IL ALC in the beginning. The reason is that the arylate has this dampening feel.

I do not try to confuse you if you have decided to get IL ALC. IL ALC, Harimoto ALC and Apolonia ZLC are good blades. You will be fine with any of them.

So, what blade was more controllable? IL ALC or Apolonia ZLC?

 

[SFF_lib]

FZD ALC is nowhere close to Viscaria. See 1857 review - probably one of the most scientific reviewer in China. URL Link on Bilibili.

I have personally tested them. Another forum member also confirmed the difference.

Here is the bounce test:

Here is the summary:

 

[mightymouse]

So, what blade was more controllable? IL ALC or Apolonia ZLC?

Control is a parameter that is very hard to explain or describe. Speed is easy, it's either fast, medium fast, or slow.

Please bear in mind that I have never used both blades in real matches. I only used them for few sessions during training and casual matches between friends. Now, I am an allwood blades guy. It does not mean that I can't control Viscaria, Freitas (outer ALC) or Innerforce Layer ALC, Apolonia (inner composite). I can adjust to any of them, given some time.

The only parameter important to me is the allwood feeling. So I am more inclined to inner composite compared to outer composite. I also like Zylon more compared to Arylate and ZLC compared to ALC. The reason is that ALC has that "dampened" feel (mute the vibration a bit). So for me, I like Apolonia ZLC more compared to IL ALC, for the reasons stated above.

Regarding control, I think they are similar to me (I can control them well) but I prefer the feeling of Apolonia. Therefore I feel that Apolonia is "more" controllable.

 

[zaivyi]

Control is a parameter that is very hard to explain or describe. Speed is easy, it's either fast, medium fast, or slow.

Please bear in mind that I have never used both blades in real matches. I only used them for few sessions during training and casual matches between friends. Now, I am an allwood blades guy. It does not mean that I can't control Viscaria, Freitas (outer ALC) or Innerforce Layer ALC, Apolonia (inner composite). I can adjust to any of them, given some time.

The only parameter important to me is the allwood feeling. So I am more inclined to inner composite compared to outer composite. I also like Zylon more compared to Arylate and ZLC compared to ALC. The reason is that ALC has that "dampened" feel (mute the vibration a bit). So for me, I like Apolonia ZLC more compared to IL ALC, for the reasons stated above.

Regarding control, I think they are similar to me (I can control them well) but I prefer the feeling of Apolonia. Therefore I feel that Apolonia is "more" controllable.

And what blade of these two was faster?

 

[steve888]

I went from korbel to Innerforce, basically a bit more speed yet retaining the wood feel with control . The harimoto version is a bit more head heavy vs Innerforce, similar feel great for blocking.
Prefer innerforce as lighter in the head. Innerforce a great blade, now a back up to my FZD and Freitas blade.

 

[mightymouse]

And what blade of these two was faster?

It's been a long time since I tried them both, but if I recall correctly, Apolonia ZLC is faster. But remember, it depends on the weight of the blade as well. Currently I can't remember which one is heavier.

 

[greenbeanmachine]

So, what blade was more controllable? IL ALC or Apolonia ZLC?

"Controllable" is a subjective term, it depends on your own feeling. Of course, people will generally agree that slow wood blades are more controllable than fast carbon blades, but once you're comparing high-speed inner vs high-speed outer blades, the consensus is less clear.

Personally I find outer carbon blades to be more controllable than inner carbon blades, because the spin doesn't bite the racket as much as it bites inner carbon blades, and it has a nice "crisp" feeling. Many other people find the inner carbon blades to be more controllable than outer carbon because they have more dwell time and a softer feeling. At the end of the day it is subjective which one is more "controllable".

Outer carbon blades are hard and inner carbon blades are soft. The hardness vs softness is the feature to pay attention to. I would advise you first to find out whether you prefer hard blades or soft blades before you decide to spend a bunch of money on a Butterfly carbon blade. Your current blade, Petr Korbel, is a soft blade. If you want to try a hard blade, you could try something like Ma Lin Extra Offensive. Or you could just ask members at your club if you can try their Viscaria / Innerforce / Outerforce / etc.

 

[merlin el mago]

There is a lot of difference going from 5 ply all wood blade to an 7 plies ALC blade, my advice is go to a 7 plies all wood like Stiga Clipper or Nittaku Acoustic, about Butterfly only like fiber blades.

 

[Lazer]

Currently I`m using Butterfly Petr Korbel made in Japan, and I want something a bit faster then this blade for the future.

Don't want to confuse You but,

Donic WC89 is a great series, They all come with a top layer of spruce which will give lot of feel.
Pick the one You feel You can handle.
Nittaku S-CZ is a great substitution for Appelgren WC89, its super slow for an outer blade but its one of my absolute favorites.

Cheers
L-zr

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

natural progression is usually

five ply to seven ply to carbon

although some real pro stays at seven:

Kristian Karlsson

Simon Gauzy

 

[Tyce]

"Controllable" is a subjective term, it depends on your own feeling. Of course, people will generally agree that slow wood blades are more controllable than fast carbon blades, but once you're comparing high-speed inner vs high-speed outer blades, the consensus is less clear.

Personally I find outer carbon blades to be more controllable than inner carbon blades, because the spin doesn't bite the racket as much as it bites inner carbon blades, and it has a nice "crisp" feeling. Many other people find the inner carbon blades to be more controllable than outer carbon because they have more dwell time and a softer feeling. At the end of the day it is subjective which one is more "controllable".

Outer carbon blades are hard and inner carbon blades are soft. The hardness vs softness is the feature to pay attention to. I would advise you first to find out whether you prefer hard blades or soft blades before you decide to spend a bunch of money on a Butterfly carbon blade. Your current blade, Petr Korbel, is a soft blade. If you want to try a hard blade, you could try something like Ma Lin Extra Offensive. Or you could just ask members at your club if you can try their Viscaria / Innerforce / Outerforce / etc.

In addition:

What are you trying to control?
Short pushes? Placement on drives? Consistent topspin?

For one person, control means a slow blade. If it's never too fast, they can hit a bit too hard and not have an issue.

For another, control means a fast blade. Since the blade is fast, making a slower stroke has a bigger effect. They never have to overhit -> control.

Same goes for dwell. One person might find a long dwell time the best thing ever in regards to control, as they're able to direct the ball all throughout the swing. The next person might want a much shorter contact time, so their inconsistent swing finish isn't a problem.

Flex? Some love it as a property to help induce spin, others hate it for making shots less consistent.

Vibration? Some want lots of it because it gives plenty of feedback, others want minimal so they can focus better on other forms of feedback.

"Control" is completely useless without context.

 

[Federal_Agent]

Buy the lightest Viscaria or FZD ALC you can find, between 83 and 85 grams...

Over time, as you progress, you can eventually upgrade to a blade with the same construction but heavier!

I like the heaviest ones, I have 90g, 92g (FZD), 94g, and 98g(🔪💀)

 

[zaivyi]

Buy the lightest Viscaria or FZD ALC you can find, between 83 and 85 grams...

Over time, as you progress, you can eventually upgrade to a blade with the same construction but heavier!

I like the heaviest ones, I have 90g, 92g (FZD), 94g, and 98g(🔪💀)

How can I get the lighter one?

 

[Federal_Agent]

How can I get the lighter one?

Basically, you talk to a supplier and ask for the weights of all the blades they have in stock. It's easy to find lightweight viscarias.

 

[zaivyi]

Basically, you talk to a supplier and ask for the weights of all the blades they have in stock. It's easy to find lightweight viscarias.

Thank you