What is the most important area to jump from 1900 to 2100?

[Grahf]

I firmly believe its:

fitness/footwork > general technique > equipment

 

[TensorBackhand]

I actually feel this is where Victor's post will help.
He had a world champion turned coach coaching him and he improves greatly.

While tb "almost beat" Victor in a friendly, of which Victor was probably fooling around (his words to me was since he was in between matches in a tournament and wanted to rest and not play), but....he had to play with tb and in tb's eyes, it could be another match he almost beaten 2300 players. According to tb, the scores were all close, like 7 or 8 points if I recall, but Victor said the gap in level different was quite vast.

This is where seeing some of Victor's training videos of that world champion is really needed.

Victor Moraga Table Tennis

This channel is about table tennis. I hope the content inspires you to go to the next level. I was born in Chile but I currently live in the United States. I want to improve everyday, and be a better version of myself. Think, Do, Learn and Repeat - God bless you !!!

www.youtube.com

Appreciate the advice.

I think right now, what I need most is to find the motivation to practice. Like I said, after beating my 2140 chopper friend, I completely stopped playing for 4 months. I felt like I basically played as well as I could reasonably play, and I wasn't going to get any better after that. I couldn't find the motivation to pick up a paddle after that.

Only 2 weeks ago I picked up a paddle again. On my first day, I was pretty bad. I tried playing a 1600-1700 level friend and lost. On my 2nd day back, I was a bit better and surprised myself by beating a 2000 level guy that I usually have a 25% win rate against even when I'm in practice. But I haven't played since then. I can't find the motivation to play, partly because I don't truly believe I can get any better from here.

The reason I opened this thread was to maybe find 1 area to really focus on that could help me get to the next level. That might bring me some motivation to start playing again.

 

[mamedium]

i think you just need to do one thing: show up at the club
posting on the forum may get you a lot of advices but if you don’t show up it’s going nowhere

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

If i knew the answer i would be already 2100 many years ago...

IMO the answer is not simple and isn't unique. Every player is unique and there are many dimensions in a TT player. Some players may not be able to play a BH loop at all, but if they have a very good footwork and can play all-FH its ok. Or if they can't really attack but can retrieve everything in defence... etc...

I think there is no fundamental difference between 1900 to 2100 or 2100 to 2300 or 1700 to 1900.
You have to improve your game overall until everything clicks and you get more wins.
sometimes you have some real improvement in part of your game but weaknesses which are too obvious.
if weaknesses can be fixed then suddenly there is a "jump" in level, because those weaknesses were costing too many points.

There are many many details to work on. foot placement, balance, footwork , balance , grip form , timing etc...
i can't understand anyone can say i can't get better. There are tens of things we could improve on.
This year I took the new initiative of taking some notes about opponents in tournaments and writing down important advice so i don't forget about it.

I keep on training with coaches 1 on 1. Been doing so for more than 10 years. Improvement in RESULTS has been slow. But i believe I'm on the right track. With my current coach (GC), what i think is EXCEPTIONAL compared to my previous coaches is that he's been with me to tournaments and seeing me play live. So he could see the real level i'm playing at, the issues I need to fix, and we're working on that.

I think one cannot improve if one doesn't like training and practicing. because results don't come easily and quickly. Tony is right, its important to train with people of (much) higher level else you can't get there. But equally important to play with people of same or lower level, and of many many styles. In tournaments, i'm actually more in difficulty with those slow knuckle balls or serves or LP that i don't play enough in practice.

I think working on fundamentals, and doing footwork or multiball is never a waste of time. nor are serve drills, or 3rd ball drills etc. the most important is having short term and long term goals and not waste your time at the table.

My "long term" goal is to perform well at Asian Veteran tournament in October at Yokohama. I could lose 100 matches before that, a few good wins there will be worth it.

 

[ThePongCommenter]

This is actually why I don't want to get coaching. Whenever I see the coaches, they are doing drills focused on these repetitive topspin drills. Hit a BH, hit a middle FH, hit a wide FH, return to BH, etc. They look rhythmic and fancy, but they don't really simulate winning and losing points. I'd much rather focus on the key issues that result in winning and losing a point. As many people seem to agree, it is the first 3 or 4 touches.

Not to mention, coaching is expensive. Let's just say $80 per session. There are literally 200 things I would rather spend $80 on...
I'm not trying to be a pro, just playing for fun. And as I said, I've made a lot of progress on my own just playing for fun.

Those coaches may be doing those drills for a reason you don't see, or they could also be doing them aimlessly. No way to know unless you talk to them or their students about the goals of their training, or just trying yourself.

Also, those former champion coaches you mention likely are training some kids with high aspirations, and they need to have the "rhythmic and fancy" drills to perfection before worrying about more strategic elements of the game since their goals are probably to hit 2500 and not 2100.

Point being - maybe you are right that those coaches are aimlessly doing things, maybe not. But I am sure if you went to any decent coach and stated your goals and wanted them to create a plan to get there, you would be able to find a coach that could do that. Your view seems very pessimistic even though you haven't ever tried it.

 

[ThePongCommenter]

I firmly believe its:

fitness/footwork > general technique > equipment

All three things are among the least important if the goal is 2100 and no more

 

[lightspin]

I am laughing at all the people posting that fitness has anything to do with getting to 2100. Being fit has absolutely nothing to do with the game until you are over 2450 or maybe higher. NOTHING. You need to read the ball and react quickly and correctly. I personally know several people who reached 2200-2300 with horrible strokes and an inability to loop or move. As I said earlier I know one guy who broke 2450 and couldn't break 15 minute in the mile if his life depended on it. These people are just are impossible to trick, make good decisions, have great touch and return the ball. They also have crazy serves or at least serves that are low and hard to attack.

On my college team we had a player who improved rather quickly. He was from an incredibly rich family that had so much money the kid could do whatever he wanted to do after graduation. They literally could give the kid millions a year for his training if he wanted it. I asked him if he wanted to keep playing and try to become a professional player after graduation. He said no way. He said if he wanted to make a go at pro sports he would try tennis as he could use his athleticism and move fat players around the court until they had a heart attack. These same fat players in table tennis could serve him off the table, stand like a immobile rock in the middle of the table and block him around everywhere while simultaneously eating a cheeseburger.

 

[TensorBackhand]

I am laughing at all the people posting that fitness has anything to do with getting to 2100. Being fit has absolutely nothing to do with the game until you are over 2450 or maybe higher. NOTHING. You need to read the ball and react quickly and correctly. I personally know several people who reached 2200-2300 with horrible strokes and an inability to loop or move. As I said earlier I know one guy who broke 2450 and couldn't break 15 minute in the mile if his life depended on it. These people are just are impossible to trick, make good decisions, have great touch and return the ball. They also have crazy serves or at least serves that are low and hard to attack.

On my college team we had a player who improved rather quickly. He was from an incredibly rich family that had so much money the kid could do whatever he wanted to do after graduation. They literally could give the kid millions a year for his training if he wanted it. I asked him if he wanted to keep playing and try to become a professional player after graduation. He said no way. He said if he wanted to make a go at pro sports he would try tennis as he could use his athleticism and move fat players around the court until they had a heart attack. These same fat players in table tennis could serve him off the table, stand like a immobile rock in the middle of the table and block him around everywhere while simultaneously eating a cheeseburger.

So what is it about those guys that read the ball/spin and react so well?

I find reading the serve the hardest part of the game. And deciding what stroke within a fraction of a second is the 2nd hardest part of the game.

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

I am laughing at all the people posting that fitness has anything to do with getting to 2100. Being fit has absolutely nothing to do with the game until you are over 2450 or maybe higher. NOTHING. You need to read the ball and react quickly and correctly. I personally know several people who reached 2200-2300 with horrible strokes and an inability to loop or move. As I said earlier I know one guy who broke 2450 and couldn't break 15 minute in the mile if his life depended on it. These people are just are impossible to trick, make good decisions, have great touch and return the ball. They also have crazy serves or at least serves that are low and hard to attack.

On my college team we had a player who improved rather quickly. He was from an incredibly rich family that had so much money the kid could do whatever he wanted to do after graduation. They literally could give the kid millions a year for his training if he wanted it. I asked him if he wanted to keep playing and try to become a professional player after graduation. He said no way. He said if he wanted to make a go at pro sports he would try tennis as he could use his athleticism and move fat players around the court until they had a heart attack. These same fat players in table tennis could serve him off the table, stand like a immobile rock in the middle of the table and block him around everywhere while simultaneously eating a cheeseburger.

Pips! Don't forget pips! The enablers of cheeseburger eating boomers destroying collegiate fit athletes.

 

[Dr Evil]

I am laughing at all the people posting that fitness has anything to do with getting to 2100. Being fit has absolutely nothing to do with the game until you are over 2450 or maybe higher. NOTHING.

Well, not quite. Try being an aging 2 wing looper and tell me fitness has nothing to do with it. In fact, I play that style because it's a fun way to stay fit. But your point is well taken; 2100 is accessible many different ways, with or without lots of cheeseburgers.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

So what is it about those guys that read the ball/spin and react so well?

I find reading the serve the hardest part of the game. And deciding what stroke within a fraction of a second is the 2nd hardest part of the game.

you need to know how to generate these kinds of spin, for you to be able to know how to read it, and then for you to be able to know how to return it.

 

[lightspin]

Well, not quite. Try being an aging 2 wing looper and tell me fitness has nothing to do with it. In fact, I play that style because it's a fun way to stay fit. But your point is well taken; 2100 is accessible many different ways, with or without lots of cheeseburgers.

If you loop from both sides, then definitely being fit will help your game. I would say however in the vast majority of cases, the thing that is holding someone back the most is issues with their serve/serve return as well as their ability to instantly discern what is going on and formulating an appropriate response.

 

[lightspin]

So what is it about those guys that read the ball/spin and react so well?

I find reading the serve the hardest part of the game. And deciding what stroke within a fraction of a second is the 2nd hardest part of the game.

Part of it is a natural ability to see the ball early and track what is going on. More of it is from playing hours and hours. The sad reality of the situation is that the younger you start playing, the more massive advantage you will have in tracking the ball and figuring out quickly what is going on. If you didn't start as a kid, the only way is to put in a ton of hours of play. You could also have a coach serve certain kinds of spins to you so eventually your mind can recognize them. A coach doing multiball could also hit shots at you over and over until your mind processes them better. Unfortunately, the younger you start, the more of a huge advantage you will have.

The people I know who got to 2200+ with bad technique lived in the club and put in countless hours playing games. The 15 minute mile guy started playing around age 10, so he had a massive advantage over those who started later.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Part of it is a natural ability to see the ball early and track what is going on. More of it is from playing hours and hours. The sad reality of the situation is that the younger you start playing, the more massive advantage you will have in tracking the ball and figuring out quickly what is going on. If you didn't start as a kid, the only way is to put in a ton of hours of play. You could also have a coach serve certain kinds of spins to you so eventually your mind can recognize them. A coach doing multiball could also hit shots at you over and over until your mind processes them better. Unfortunately, the younger you start, the more of a huge advantage you will have.

The people I know who got to 2200+ with bad technique lived in the club and put in countless hours playing games. The 15 minute mile guy started playing around age 10, so he had a massive advantage over those who started later.

I think you touched on a very important part.

these are adult learners, with little hours and trying to achieve something (on their own, with no professional help), that is considered technique and experience related.

if I was tb, I would pay stronger players to just serve to me.
but maybe he doesn't even want to do that (some people don't want to spend money on anything.)

 

[TensorBackhand]

Part of it is a natural ability to see the ball early and track what is going on. More of it is from playing hours and hours. The sad reality of the situation is that the younger you start playing, the more massive advantage you will have in tracking the ball and figuring out quickly what is going on. If you didn't start as a kid, the only way is to put in a ton of hours of play. You could also have a coach serve certain kinds of spins to you so eventually your mind can recognize them. A coach doing multiball could also hit shots at you over and over until your mind processes them better. Unfortunately, the younger you start, the more of a huge advantage you will have.

The people I know who got to 2200+ with bad technique lived in the club and put in countless hours playing games. The 15 minute mile guy started playing around age 10, so he had a massive advantage over those who started later.

What I really want is just a youtube video facing the server where he does hundreds of serves and it tells you what kind of spin is on it. For example Craig Bryant's serves are just insane, especially his hook serve.

Some of the receive tutorials have this, but it only shows a few serves and not enough to actually get the data to your brain.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

What I really want is just a youtube video facing the server where he does hundreds of serves and it tells you what kind of spin is on it. For example Craig Bryant's serves are just insane, especially his hook serve.

Some of the receive tutorials have this, but it only shows a few serves and not enough to actually get the data to your brain.

why dont' you pay Hu Heming to do it for you?

 

[TensorBackhand]

why dont' you pay Hu Heming to do it for you?

Maybe I will start by making my own video of these serves and ask TTD members to take a spin reading test. I don't think I can even read my own grey zone serves.

When I serve, sometimes I don't even know what spin is on the serve. Sometimes I think it should be topspin, but i see my opponent putting the receive into the net.

It's especially these "grey zone" serves that really annoy me. What I mean by grey zone is that you are striking the ball right at the point when your paddle is going from downwards to upwards. So the spin will be different if you strike the ball a fraction early or a fraction late.

 

[Tyce]

So you basically want a YouTube video to get you to 2100?

... I'm out.

 

[TensorBackhand]

So you basically want a YouTube video to get you to 2100?

... I'm out.

Well no, I never said it's easy to get to 2100.

But if I watched 20 hours of Craig Bryant's serves and was able read all of them, I certainly would be BIG step better than I am today.

 

[JJ Ng]

Well no, I never said it's easy to get to 2100.

But if I watched 20 hours of Craig Bryant's serves and was able read all of them, I certainly would be BIG step better than I am today.

You cannot expect to watch 20 hours of Craig Bryant's serves and be able return his serves. Instead, you need to attempt to RETURN his serves for 20 hours in order to be able to return it. There is a big difference between seeing/looking v.s. actually doing it.

It is like, you can watch two 2100 level players play and you think, yes, I can do the same. But when you end up playing them, only then you will start noticing the amount of spin they can generate (it is very deceiving) and the subtle ways they move you around the table to make you feel very very uncomfortable.

When you actually return his serves, you will start paying attention to the point of contact and the projectory of the ball and you will try very hard to figure it out. However, just looking at his serves, he uses almost the same motion and that's the whole point. You will never return his serves by watching him. You will only be able to return his serve by actually trying to return it yourself.

As for why you do not know what spin you generate on your own serve, I don't get it. I know exactly what spin I put on my serve 120% of the time. No spin. Side spin. Side under. Side top. Long. Short. Half long. I know exactly where I contact the ball. I know exactly what fake movements I use in each serve. It is all planned out ahead of time.

You advanced very quickly as an adult beginner. It is quite amazing actually. Hope you get back into the game again.