What makes China so good?

[UpSideDownCarl]

I think it is the home cookin' that makes China so good at table tennis.

Give a 6 year old Chow Fun, a Viscaria with H3+T05 and 6 hours a day, 6 days a week of hard core training for the next 10 years and now you know how Fan Zhendong's legs were such tree trunks by the time he was 16.

 

[mart1nandersson]

To answer the question why 2-3 tier countries like Sweden are doing relatively well:
- Know how. We have excellent coaches. You can get your kid placed in a training group managed by the likes of Appelgren for virtually no money (quote from a Chinese colleague who put her son in his training group)
- Culture. A lot of kids here have got parents who used to play competively during 80-90s. Their parents teach them initially.
- There’re table tennis tables in 99% of the schools and youth clubs
- 99% know about the sport. Most probably don’t care about it but it’s still extremely well known as a competitive sport.

The training facilities are quite poor and the sport has lost a lot of kids to other niche sports like floorball/unihockey but we still manage to produce talents like Truls due to excellent coaches.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

To answer the question why 2-3 tier countries like Sweden are doing relatively well:
- Know how. We have excellent coaches. You can get your kid placed in a training group managed by the likes of Appelgren for virtually no money (quote from a Chinese colleague who put her son in his training group)
- Culture. A lot of kids here have got parents who used to play competively during 80-90s. Their parents teach them initially.
- There’re table tennis tables in 99% of the schools and youth clubs
- 99% know about the sport. Most probably don’t care about it but it’s still extremely well known as a competitive sport.

The training facilities are quite poor and the sport has lost a lot of kids to other niche sports like floorball/unihockey but we still manage to produce talents like Truls due to excellent coaches.

One time, several years ago, I was at SPiN messing around with a friend and this guy from Sweden came up to us. He was with his family, his wife and kids. He had had quite a few beers. He said he used to play and was okay. And wanted to play with us because he saw we were the best players there at the time.

Even though he was more than tipsy and hadn't played in 20+ years, he was still considerably better than either of us. I called a friend who works across from SPiN who is 23,000 (USATT). I told him he had to come and play the guy. He came and they played some matches. During the matches, the guy kept drinking. I think he had 3 more beers while playing. The first few games, he had trouble with my friend. Then he just destroyed him.

In USA we would say he was freakin' good. He just said he used to be okay.

 

[yogi_bear]

Sweden has a good city level training program basing on what Swedish girl told me about.

 

[jawien]

One time, several years ago, I was at SPiN messing around with a friend and this guy from Sweden came up to us. He was with his family, his wife and kids. He had had quite a few beers. He said he used to play and was okay. And wanted to play with us because he saw we were the best players there at the time.

Even though he was more than tipsy and hadn't played in 20+ years, he was still considerably better than either of us. I called a friend who works across from SPiN who is 23,000 (USATT). I told him he had to come and play the guy. He came and they played some matches. During the matches, the guy kept drinking. I think he had 3 more beers while playing. The first few games, he had trouble with my friend. Then he just destroyed him.

In USA we would say he was freakin' good. He just said he used to be okay.

Sure, his name didn't start with Jan ... something ..?
; )

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I think you are correct in the vast majority of the world. I imagine there are exceptions though. Like China but also perhaps some Europeans got invested in by their national body not just their parents from a young age.

I hope government funding is always more
But in most sports I know (in South Africa, we produce top swimmers, golfers, cricketers, rugby players, I don't see much of a government sponsorship)
in Table Tennis, Japan only fitted in with true government sponsorship due to Tokyo 2020 10 year plan. I can't remember the amount, but its was like 8 girls and 5 boys (i recall its 13 players) that got unlimited funding budget. Then there is your JTTA and schools division (not sure what is the same) that has separate funding for "National" players.
But you need a good portion of money before you can get access to these national funding.

in China, its common that parents (even when poor) will try and get extra money to the coach for extra 1on1 in the early stages.
Its not all "free for all".
once the player hits provincial, then they have some salary from the provincial TT organisation
So, I would say, some self funding is still required

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

To answer the question why 2-3 tier countries like Sweden are doing relatively well:
- Know how. We have excellent coaches. You can get your kid placed in a training group managed by the likes of Appelgren for virtually no money (quote from a Chinese colleague who put her son in his training group)
- Culture. A lot of kids here have got parents who used to play competively during 80-90s. Their parents teach them initially.
- There’re table tennis tables in 99% of the schools and youth clubs
- 99% know about the sport. Most probably don’t care about it but it’s still extremely well known as a competitive sport.

The training facilities are quite poor and the sport has lost a lot of kids to other niche sports like floorball/unihockey but we still manage to produce talents like Truls due to excellent coaches.

This is interesting
maybe that why Americans go to Sweden, because its virtually "free"?
How much would a top coach charge?

My understanding of the Swedish system is basically your club system.
in School, you can't get to high TT level right? one would require to excel in a club?

I think Sweden's up and down and the best case study for all nations.
Sweden has so little population and reach the highest pinnacle in TT (based on resource, population ratio and achievement)

But I won't say the Swedish juniors of today is there yet.
Junior TT is one thing, turning adult/senior, can Truls become top 20? I hope he can.
I don't follow that much Swedish junior TT, other than Truls, is there few others who can become world top 50?

 

[mart1nandersson]

This is interesting
maybe that why Americans go to Sweden, because its virtually "free"?
How much would a top coach charge?

My understanding of the Swedish system is basically your club system.
in School, you can't get to high TT level right? one would require to excel in a club?

I think Sweden's up and down and the best case study for all nations.
Sweden has so little population and reach the highest pinnacle in TT (based on resource, population ratio and achievement)

But I won't say the Swedish juniors of today is there yet.
Junior TT is one thing, turning adult/senior, can Truls become top 20? I hope he can.
I don't follow that much Swedish junior TT, other than Truls, is there few others who can become world top 50?

Lula can probably answer the question a bit better as he's an actual elite player on a national level here but I'll do my best.

When it comes to TT in the schools - No. There's no formal training offered but the tables are available in a lot if not all places. Outdoor tables are quite common and you'll also find them at the youth clubs (kind of like after school kindergarten for kids 7-12 years old). The kids play it and some get hooked enough and join a proper club. We do whoever have schools for the elite cadets where they can combine TT and studies (high school level 16-19 years old).

We have a club system. A club in this sense is a non-profit organization. The typical yearly fee is 100-200€/6 months which would include 2-5 weekly group practise sessions. Some clubs will offer free of charge one to one training (i.e. multi ball etc) and some will have fees for it. My guess is that the elite cadets gets this free of charge. For example Spårvägen (the club of Appelgren & JO) charges 100€ for 10 sessions of 1 hour. Even the amateurs and veterans in a club can book this. The club I play for is much smaller but we a full time coach (former european champ and world bronze medalist) employed and the cost is similar. Buying coaching hours "externally" usually costs 30-50€/h but this is kind of frowned upon.

The reason why we're not as good as during the 80s and 90s all comes down to participation. We have way fewer clubs and less kids picking up TT. Other sports (mainly football and unihockey) has attracted the potential talent pool. The kids that play today will to a large extent have parents that used to play during their own youth.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Lula can probably answer the question a bit better as he's an actual elite player on a national level here but I'll do my best.

When it comes to TT in the schools - No. There's no formal training offered but the tables are available in a lot if not all places. Outdoor tables are quite common and you'll also find them at the youth clubs (kind of like after school kindergarten for kids 7-12 years old). The kids play it and some get hooked enough and join a proper club. We do whoever have schools for the elite cadets where they can combine TT and studies (high school level 16-19 years old).

We have a club system. A club in this sense is a non-profit organization. The typical yearly fee is 100-200€/6 months which would include 2-5 weekly group practise sessions. Some clubs will offer free of charge one to one training (i.e. multi ball etc) and some will have fees for it. My guess is that the elite cadets gets this free of charge. For example Spårvägen (the club of Appelgren & JO) charges 100€ for 10 sessions of 1 hour. Even the amateurs and veterans in a club can book this. The club I play for is much smaller but we a full time coach (former european champ and world bronze medalist) employed and the cost is similar. Buying coaching hours "externally" usually costs 30-50€/h but this is kind of frowned upon.

The reason why we're not as good as during the 80s and 90s all comes down to participation. We have way fewer clubs and less kids picking up TT. Other sports (mainly football and unihockey) has attracted the potential talent pool. The kids that play today will to a large extent have parents that used to play during their own youth.

I think this system in Sweden is similar to most tier 2 countries.
Including your likes of Korea, Japan, Taiwan, Hong Kong (in terms of club, but some of these places have elite school teams with world level facilities/resources)

The differences is maybe just cost structure for 1 on 1 with coaches.

 

[yoass]

The club I play for is much smaller but we a full time coach (former european champ and world bronze medalist) employed and the cost is similar.

Ulf Bengtsson?

 

[mart1nandersson]

Ulf Bengtsson?

No, she's Croatian (won her medals for Yugoslavia).

 

[ttpshot]

We don't really have private coaches in Japan. We're sort of catered by junior clubs for U12 who typicaly charge $200-300 per month for 30H a week training. Beyond that we have elite schools and company who look after them with coaches and equipments. That's probably why you see most top players in Japan are either born to TT junior club's coaches or to former players who spend their private time practicing with kids.

 

[ttpshot]

Forgot to say but you have national and provincial commitments on top of that if you're good enough. My daughter was a fringe rep for Tokyo in her age group so she was invited to training camps for Tokyo, Kanto area and National team around 5 times a year.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Good discussion so far.
so we know a bit more about Japan, China, Taiwan.
I would say Hong Kong is similar to Taiwan.
Korea maybe too.
So your 5 top Asian countries.

We also hear a bit of Sweden.
Now, we need German, English, French, Romanian (junior girls is going great there I believe) etc

 

[FruitLoop]

Good discussion so far.
so we know a bit more about Japan, China, Taiwan.
I would say Hong Kong is similar to Taiwan.
Korea maybe too.
So your 5 top Asian countries.

We also hear a bit of Sweden.
Now, we need German, English, French, Romanian (junior girls is going great there I believe) etc

And junior boys. They had two of the top 4 Junior boys in Europe last year and one got to semis of world's.

France and Germany are the two European juggernauts so would definitely be interesting to hear about them. The Germans aren't producing much talent lately.

 

[yoass]

And junior boys. They had two of the top 4 Junior boys in Europe last year and one got to semis of world's.

France and Germany are the two European juggernauts so would definitely be interesting to hear about them. The Germans aren't producing much talent lately.

I've been impressed with the Belgian players. Like Sweden, an abnormal level given the relatively small population.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I've been impressed with the Belgian players. Like Sweden, an abnormal level given the relatively small population.

are you able to share they background, how they got to the top, what resources etc

 

[yoass]

are you able to share they background, how they got to the top, what resources etc

I’d like to understand the relative strength of Belgian TT better too, and I don’t. From my youth I remember internation ‘five countries’ school events, with consistently very high levels of Belgian and French delegations. German too, maybe less consistently; and overall certainly better, year over year than us. Or Luxemburg.

 

[perham]

There’s a great deal of investment in youth competitions. And lots and lots of opportunities to play. Antwerp, a city of 500K people has more than 20 clubs. Some small, and some quite big.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

There’s a great deal of investment in youth competitions. And lots and lots of opportunities to play. Antwerp, a city of 500K people has more than 20 clubs. Some small, and some quite big.

can you explain how the more successful youth in the bigger clubs develop from grassroot to international level
in terms of coaching/training, hours, funding (gov/corporate/self) etc