Which serve good for forehand attack clockwise side-spin or anti-clockwise side-spin?

[Rizve Hasan]

Hi,
I personally feel, clockwise side-spin works for me for the 3rd ball setup. I place the serve short on their right side of the table. It's forehand for right handed players. Most of them push it and I can attack the ball. However, if I serve on the left, good players can flick it easily. I am curious to know what you think about this placement.
Thanks

 

[MK73]

For righthanded players I would say clockwise into bh of opponent (with pendulum serve) or anti-clockwise into the backhand (either with bh-serve or revers pendulum). Long fast serves left, right and in the middle also help. I sometimes use short topspin pendulum serves which, when misread, pop up on the opponents racket and make a 3rd ball attack easy.

 

[IB66]

I think a RH players pendulum serve ( clockwise as MK73 quotes) is generally classed as a FH dominant serve. The spin, when received by a RH opponent, on their BH can pull the return to the servers left side (BH) side.
server steps around and plays FH, opening up the table, which allows them to play more FH’s as they work back across the table left to right. Of course an open table can be exploited by a skilled opponent, so quality of servers 3rd ball attack needs to be good.
In general it can be easier to return a right handed pendulum serve by a right handed receivers FH, just more controlled, main issue is reading back or top spin, the side spin is watered down a little.
So if you serve short pendulum to a RH players FH side they are likely to be able to position the return better if they read the back or top spin variation.

Serving to receivers centre line reduces the angles available, also applies to open play.

A reverse pendulum, hook/punch, tomahawk serve or standard BH serve of a righty are classed more as BH dominant. Reason is the Anti clockwise spin pulls the ball to the servers right side (FH side) of the table, sure a FH 3rd ball is on, but the table is now open on the left hand side, meaning it’s more likely that you will have to work back across the table right to left, unless you are super fit and fast, this means playing more BH shots.

As MK73 pointed out, diagonal serves are also more likely to be returned cross table, more table available diagonally for receiver to return into. So you can serve BH or reverse pendulum etc from left side into receivers backhand, but again, a return of anti-clockwise spin serve with a righties BH is easier for them to deal with the side spin. It’s top, back or no spin that is then what they have to pay more attention to.

 

[Rizve Hasan]

I think a RH players pendulum serve ( clockwise as MK73 quotes) is generally classed as a FH dominant serve. The spin, when received by a RH opponent, on their BH can pull the return to the servers left side (BH) side.
server steps around and plays FH, opening up the table, which allows them to play more FH’s as they work back across the table left to right. Of course an open table can be exploited by a skilled opponent, so quality of servers 3rd ball attack needs to be good.
In general it can be easier to return a right handed pendulum serve by a right handed receivers FH, just more controlled, main issue is reading back or top spin, the side spin is watered down a little.
So if you serve short pendulum to a RH players FH side they are likely to be able to position the return better if they read the back or top spin variation.

Serving to receivers centre line reduces the angles available, also applies to open play.

A reverse pendulum, hook/punch, tomahawk serve or standard BH serve of a righty are classed more as BH dominant. Reason is the Anti clockwise spin pulls the ball to the servers right side (FH side) of the table, sure a FH 3rd ball is on, but the table is now open on the left hand side, meaning it’s more likely that you will have to work back across the table right to left, unless you are super fit and fast, this means playing more BH shots.

As MK73 pointed out, diagonal serves are also more likely to be returned cross table, more table available diagonally for receiver to return into. So you can serve BH or reverse pendulum etc from left side into receivers backhand, but again, a return of anti-clockwise spin serve with a righties BH is easier for them to deal with the side spin. It’s top, back or no spin that is then what they have to pay more attention to.

Great explanation.

 

[Rizve Hasan]

@MK73 - Point Noted. Will try all and will capture those returns on video for future reference.

 

[Ktandean]

The best serve is the "Blind Serve"
A.k.a. 'I also don't know what kind of spin I put on my serve"
😂

 

[Ktandean]

Jokes aside, the most efficient way to remember the theories is this (I will use common assumption that you are a FH dominant player and both you+the opponents are RIGHT handed for now):

vs. Forehand Dominant Opponent
Pendulum (clockwise spin) to their middle line/BH side. Their returns will likely to be on your middle/BH side with occassional half-FH side which you'll meet with a 3rd ball pivot attack.

vs. Backhand Dominant Opponent
Reverse Pendulum (anticlockwise spin) to their far FH side. This will force them to reach far towards their right to return using their unfavorable FH, which usually will lead to high enough lobs for you to finish if they are unable to receive/read properly. If they are able to return, you'll more often be in a favorable FH vs FH position which gives you a power advantage.

With that, now you have a default MATRIX set in your mind.
If you are a BH dominant player instead, flip the matrix once.
For every left handed player in the game, flip the matrix once per player.
You should arrive at the optimal serve strategy (theoretically).

Personally, short/long serve depends on the size of the opponent and how quick they are on their feet. But for a general sense, serve as short as you can without making it too slow for them to react.

 

[Rizve Hasan]

Jokes aside, the most efficient way to remember the theories is this (I will use common assumption that you are a FH dominant player and both you+the opponents are RIGHT handed for now):

vs. Forehand Dominant Opponent
Pendulum (clockwise spin) to their middle line/BH side. Their returns will likely to be on your middle/BH side with occassional half-FH side which you'll meet with a 3rd ball pivot attack.

vs. Backhand Dominant Opponent
Reverse Pendulum (anticlockwise spin) to their far FH side. This will force them to reach far towards their right to return using their unfavorable FH, which usually will lead to high enough lobs for you to finish if they are unable to receive/read properly. If they are able to return, you'll more often be in a favorable FH vs FH position which gives you a power advantage.

With that, now you have a default MATRIX set in your mind.
If you are a BH dominant player instead, flip the matrix once.
For every left handed player in the game, flip the matrix once per player.
You should arrive at the optimal serve strategy (theoretically).

Personally, short/long serve depends on the size of the opponent and how quick they are on their feet. But for a general sense, serve as short as you can without making it too slow for them to react.

I am a FH dominated player. I like the return balls on the middle or slightly on my right side.

 

[Ktandean]

I am a FH dominated player. I like the return balls on the middle or slightly on my right side.

While that is an ideal situation, in a real match nobody will feed you balls right where you want LOL. At least I won't, now that I know 😆.