why wait to dry the glue?

[lodro]

I'm not sure dampening is that much. I mean, definitely it happens for some extent. I doubt you can actually feel it. I even doubt even a recording apparatus can.

One way people classify blades is by the highest peak in frequency from the sound recording produced by a ball bouncing on the blade. I would do like this. I would record the shape of the entire recording (not only the peak, that by the way is the only thing I believe an average player can sense during gameplay). Then I would attach the edge tape, record again and compare. My guess is that shapes of the frequency spectrums show less than 1% difference. Just guessing I may be wrong...

I do agree on the weight change. Less than 5 grams. I don't know... I mean, it's a racket, it's not a rally car. 2-3 grams are likely less than the weight increase produced by the sweat absorbed by the handle.

I do see some protective value in the tape and at least at my level, I see more benefits than reduced performance. I see Timo Boll applying tape on part of the side where he knows he hits the table during FH pushes for receiving serves. He was (or maybe it was Ovtcharov) mentioning that tape slows down the racket, and I do agree for him weight is very important, even 1 single gram. However also Boll sees some value in not destroying the rubber in the middle of a match.

About all that dampening and muffling of the blade with edge-tape here are my 2 cents worth.

I do not believe that a solid blade of whatever composition (wood/carbon etc) will be muffled by edge-tape, nor do i believe it being a weight matter.

However, when those edge tapes are used that cover not only the blade but the complete edges of the rubbers then I can see the damping and muffling but not of the blade but the rubbers.
Between the rubber pimples there is air and these air channels allow air to escape whenever a ball hits the rubber. When the edges of the rubbers are blocked, the air will not be able to escape and I call that dampening.
You can test this easy by taking a strip of a rubber , maybe about 2cm wide and blowing into its side and you will find just how easy it is to blow right through. But not of course when you clamp the other end. 🤣

Are we having fun yet ???😂😂😂

 

[Trevize84]

About all that dampening and muffling of the blade with edge-tape here are my 2 cents worth.

I do not believe that a solid blade of whatever composition (wood/carbon etc) will be muffled by edge-tape, nor do i believe it being a weight matter.

However, when those edge tapes are used that cover not only the blade but the complete edges of the rubbers then I can see the damping and muffling but not of the blade but the rubbers.
Between the rubber pimples there is air and these air channels allow air to escape whenever a ball hits the rubber. When the edges of the rubbers are blocked, the air will not be able to escape and I call that dampening.
You can test this easy by taking a strip of a rubber , maybe about 2cm wide and blowing into its side and you will find just how easy it is to blow right through. But not of course when you clamp the other end. 🤣

Are we having fun yet ???😂😂😂

Didn't think about air escaping, then I guess it's best to leave a small area uncovered, maybe as close to the handle as possible.

 

[lodro]

Didn't think about air escaping, then I guess it's best to leave a small area uncovered, maybe as close to the handle as possible.

Indeed, but of course it is the edge near the handle where nobody applies an edge tape anyway.
I was just kidding 🤣

 

[Cadoia]

About all that dampening and muffling of the blade with edge-tape here are my 2 cents worth.

I do not believe that a solid blade of whatever composition (wood/carbon etc) will be muffled by edge-tape, nor do i believe it being a weight matter.

However, when those edge tapes are used that cover not only the blade but the complete edges of the rubbers then I can see the damping and muffling but not of the blade but the rubbers.
Between the rubber pimples there is air and these air channels allow air to escape whenever a ball hits the rubber. When the edges of the rubbers are blocked, the air will not be able to escape and I call that dampening.
You can test this easy by taking a strip of a rubber , maybe about 2cm wide and blowing into its side and you will find just how easy it is to blow right through. But not of course when you clamp the other end. 🤣

Are we having fun yet ???😂😂😂

Im having much fun yes
Another good explanation. Ill take it haha.

 

[Trevize84]

Indeed, but of course it is the edge near the handle where nobody applies an edge tape anyway.
I was just kidding 🤣

It wouldn't work that close to the handle. It must be above the part where the brand and cert. no. are printed on the rubber. A small hole can make sense, ideally air should be able to escape anyways because edge doesn't seal perfectly the rubber, but there might be not enough air flow

 

[_ak]

There are ventilated brake disks, why not to have a ventilated edge tape?

 

[riemsesy]

About all that dampening and muffling of the blade with edge-tape here are my 2 cents worth.

Between the rubber pimples there is air and these air channels allow air to escape whenever a ball hits the rubber. When the edges of the rubbers are blocked, the air will not be able to escape and I call that dampening.

Are we having fun yet ???😂😂😂

have you been eating mushrooms?
channels? there are bubbles, there is no way 'air' can escape from the rubber..

but you were just having fun with us, right?

 

[riemsesy]

It wouldn't work that close to the handle. It must be above the part where the brand and cert. no. are printed on the rubber. A small hole can make sense, ideally air should be able to escape anyways because edge doesn't seal perfectly the rubber, but there might be not enough air flow

the next newer rubbers will be penetraded with nano-needles so air can escape even faster from underneath the rubbers

 

[Trevize84]

have you been eating mushrooms?
channels? there are bubbles, there is no way 'air' can escape from the rubber..

but you were just having fun with us, right?

He meant that between the topsheet and the sponge, amongst the pips, air can actually flow. If you seal the tosheet so that air cannot escape, then deformation of the topsheet should find opposition of the air. Hence energy during the stroke has to account for air compression plus topsheet elastic force. Generally you activate the topsheet just by exceeding its elastic potential with kinetic energy. If you had to account for air compression as well then it would work like a much harder topsheet.

 

[riemsesy]

He meant that between the topsheet and the sponge, amongst the pips, air can actually flow. If you seal the tosheet so that air cannot escape, then deformation of the topsheet should find opposition of the air. Hence energy during the stroke has to account for air compression plus topsheet elastic force. Generally you activate the topsheet just by exceeding its elastic potential with kinetic energy. If you had to account for air compression as well then it would work like a much harder topsheet.

Ah …
Those channels, my bad
🤡
Still thinking that’s utter theoratically

 

[Trevize84]

Ah …
Those channels, my bad
🤡
Still thinking that’s utter theoratically

Surely it is. As I mentioned the edge tape doesn't totally seal the topsheet. However, due to the instantaneous nature of ball contact the air flow between rubber and tape can be relevant. That may explain the dampening and muffling that in a first analysis I considered impossible. Experimental results are at the base of science. I was just making hypotheses.

 

[Cadoia]

Surely it is. As I mentioned the edge tape doesn't totally seal the topsheet. However, due to the instantaneous nature of ball contact the air flow between rubber and tape can be relevant. That may explain the dampening and muffling that in a first analysis I considered impossible. Experimental results are at the base of science. I was just making hypotheses.

In the end I feel a difference. for some reason or another. besides the weight difference.
Muffled is the only word I have to describe it.
I think there has been some interesting ideas as to how and why in this thread.

 

[lodro]

have you been eating mushrooms?
channels? there are bubbles, there is no way 'air' can escape from the rubber..

but you were just having fun with us, right?

well, I lived through the 60ies and 70ties, so of course i had the mushrooms and many other things too.

Maybe you missed out. 😁

Of course there are no channels when you blow into the sponge , the channels of air are between sponge and and the top rubber created by the gaps between the pimples.
Honestly, I would never lie to you unless it is to my benefit 🤣

 

[Cadoia]

well, I lived through the 60ies and 70ties, so of course i had the mushrooms and many other things too.

Maybe you missed out. 😁

Of course there are no channels when you blow into the sponge , the channels of air are between sponge and and the top rubber created by the gaps between the pimples.
Honestly, I would never lie to you unless it is to my benefit 🤣

lol
are we not entertained?

 

[riemsesy]

well, I lived through the 60ies and 70ties, so of course i had the mushrooms and many other things too.

Maybe you missed out. 😁

Of course there are no channels when you blow into the sponge , the channels of air are between sponge and and the top rubber created by the gaps between the pimples.
Honestly, I would never lie to you unless it is to my benefit 🤣

You probably had a decade more than me of the good stuff. Than again isn't Amsterdam the Canabis capital ;-)
But seriously.. can we know what the air displacement is? Will the pimples collapse, will they sink in the rubber?
Will it cause a puffing and sucking sound ... okay forget that last question.

 

[lodro]

Will it cause a puffing and sucking sound ... okay forget that last question.

forget it ? but that is the most important aspect of it all 😂

 

[mocker88]

Then it is in my head as well. Edge tape does make the blade face heavier. But, I do think it also dampens vibrations from the blade a little as well. The question there is, does the blade already give enough feedback that a little dampening is useful. Or is the blade already muted enough that adding more from the tape is detrimental.

And that is what personal choice is about.

Yes it might do a little difference after all. Nothing I actually noticed, but some players might be more sensitive to these things.

 

[Cadoia]

am I to understand you didnt glue it on an wooden racket right?
ill be gluing rubber to a racket tomorrow using the wet method myself to see how this goes.

Ok I glued some chinese rubbers on my yinhe blade. wet glue. lots of it. 1 layer on blade and 1 on rubber.
put it under pressure for 4 hours.
glue came out on the sides. easy to remove.
I took the rubbers off to see if it was still wet after 4 hours.
nope. totally dried.
It was as attached to the rubber as with dry gluing. no more no less.

Next I did the exact sane and after pressure of 5kg for 12 hours I took the racket and played with it.
Played perfectly well.
I observation: when I dry glue I see the rubber having tiny small differences. its not super 100% flat smooth. You will need to hold it up against the light to see it.
With the wet method its completely flat.
Im not sure I feel it during play honestly but my inner Dane likes to see the perfect flat surface. I KNOW the glue is 100% evenly distributed.

Now I would wet glue from now onwards if it wasnt for the fact some claim the sponge will react negatively to this. And the blade will get moisture and deteriorate over time.
I will Wet glue my cheap chinese rubbers and blades.
Still dry glue the main blade as I dont want to risk destroying my Viscaria and my overpriced k3 and incoming 09c.

over the years if i see no damage from wet gluing ill fully adopt it on all my blades.

 

[_ak]

Perhaps all the suggestions about 5 layers of fully dry strong glue are related to heavily boosted and domed rubbers. BTW, old rubber glue is less strong.

 

[Trevize84]

Ok I glued some chinese rubbers on my yinhe blade. wet glue. lots of it. 1 layer on blade and 1 on rubber.
put it under pressure for 4 hours.
glue came out on the sides. easy to remove.
I took the rubbers off to see if it was still wet after 4 hours.
nope. totally dried.
It was as attached to the rubber as with dry gluing. no more no less.

Next I did the exact sane and after pressure of 5kg for 12 hours I took the racket and played with it.
Played perfectly well.
I observation: when I dry glue I see the rubber having tiny small differences. its not super 100% flat smooth. You will need to hold it up against the light to see it.
With the wet method its completely flat.
Im not sure I feel it during play honestly but my inner Dane likes to see the perfect flat surface. I KNOW the glue is 100% evenly distributed.

Now I would wet glue from now onwards if it wasnt for the fact some claim the sponge will react negatively to this. And the blade will get moisture and deteriorate over time.
I will Wet glue my cheap chinese rubbers and blades.
Still dry glue the main blade as I dont want to risk destroying my Viscaria and my overpriced k3 and incoming 09c.

over the years if i see no damage from wet gluing ill fully adopt it on all my blades.

Let us know the long term results!