Why were the rubbers black and red in the first place?

says Table tennis clown
says Table tennis clown
Well-Known Member
Apr 2020
3,439
1,872
7,442
You mean like these 9 changes ?

So you are saying that all pips / anti players must accept that
1. ITTF passes chanegs in the best intersts of all players especially pips / anti players to promote diversity
2. All the ITTF councils & committees & their national counterparts are NOT controlled by booster supremacists

OK


ANSWER THE QUESTION or say I DO NOT KNOW
ANSWER THE QUESTION or say I DO NOT KNOW
ANSWER THE QUESTION or say I DO NOT KNOW
ANSWER THE QUESTION or say I DO NOT KNOW
ANSWER THE QUESTION or say I DO NOT KNOW
ANSWER THE QUESTION or say I DO NOT KNOW
 
This user has no status.
You mean like these 9 changes ?

So you are saying that all pips / anti players must accept that
1. ITTF passes chanegs in the best intersts of all players especially pips / anti players to promote diversity
2. All the ITTF councils & committees & their national counterparts are NOT controlled by booster supremacists

OK
No - I am not saying anything of the sort.

No such inference was intended. No such conclusion should be drawn.
 
says Win by Spin!
says Win by Spin!
Member
Aug 2022
205
83
312
Read 3 reviews
Re: the OP --

Short answer:
It was a necessary change to mandate a high contrast service environment. This helped correct distortions in the game caused by evolving equipment & changing player strategy.

Long answer:
In the late 70's / early 80's, players at international level started using both tacky & pimples out rubbers (combination bats), with black rubbers on both sides, and also started twiddling the bat under the table during service.

Combined with the advent of other factors (such as the high toss serve, and imparting knuckle spin on the ball with the free hand during the ball toss) this meant the vast bulk of points in a match were being won/lost purely on serve.

This was detrimental to the nature of the game on the whole, as it made game play hugely imbalanced -- it took the focus off of other skills / strategies / game play styles / rallies & tactics. The serve started becoming everything -- coaching and player development pathways were putting emphasis on serving over every other skill in the game, purely in order for a player to simply compete with the better servers.

[NB: it's relevant to point out, a similar thing was also happening in Tennis at the same time, with the growing use of oversized carbon fibre rackets with longer handles. This enabled higher string tensions, making for faster racquets, and serve speeds increased dramatically. Many players were still using wooden racquets at the time, even at the top level... But they were forced to change to the more expensive carbon fibre racquets, as wooden ones simply couldn't compete.

There was huge debate at the time over possibly changing the rules around tennis equipment as a result, as all of a sudden the game was being overtaken by serving masters -- this was detracting from tennis as a spectator sport. TV viewers at the time liked the longer rallies as they add to the game's drama, so they started to switch off. Players adapted over time and TV viewers returned, but the game had also changed forever, some say for the worse -- serve and rally was out, long boring baseline battles were in, taller players came to dominate the game due to the simple mechanical advantages they enjoy during service, and nothing has really changed much in the 40-odd years since].

Since its inception, the ITTF has always wanted TT to be a game that's accessible to everybody, even at the highest levels.

As TT was now trending towards becoming another game like tennis, where service was everything and the most expensive equipment wins, over time the ITTF brought in a host of rules to 'even the odds', bring balance and diversity back to the game, and prevent players from using either more expensive equipment (or a small handfull of techniques) from dominating matches.

These rule changes included the (now traditional) black/red rubber combo, as well as other rules, such as tossing the ball straight up with an open hand during service, and the requirement for a competition blade to have a wooden surface on both sides, and contain a minimum of 85% wood by thickness.

And as for why black and red, it was always about mandating extremely high visual contrast. Players have tried other tactics in the past to disguise the serve, such as stamping or grunting to hide the ball impact sound, combining green rubbers with green and white shirts then serving in front of the body, hiding the impact stroke behind the body during service, and so on.

This is also why balls in ITTF matches are either white or orange, why you can't have white or orange coloured rubbers, why there must be high contrast colours between each side of the bat, and why player uniforms at ITTF tournaments cannot be the same colour as the ball.
Thanks for the great and detailed explanation! It is always interesting to read about the sport's history and this writing is interesting. Thanks.
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Sep 2013
7,554
6,740
16,382
Read 3 reviews
No - I am not saying anything of the sort.

No such inference was intended. No such conclusion should be drawn.
troll alert (if you haven't noticed yet)

You say 1 word, he will put 100 words in your mouth deliberately.
Everyone can see you are giving a very sincere reply. Can't say the same for him.
 
says Fair Play first
says Fair Play first
Well-Known Member
Jan 2012
1,315
431
1,815
ONE MORE IMPROVEMENT TO THE SPORT.

An altruistic scientists' pool concerned with the game further development came out with an interesting improvement they specified as "chromatic differentiation of the racket coverings by topsheet types ". This is to affix specific colours to specific rubber types. For more particularities see the image attached.
( Provided solely for your information. Not to be promulgated)
 

Attachments

  • FINAL_table1_draft-10.jpg
    FINAL_table1_draft-10.jpg
    441.5 KB · Views: 72
Last edited:
says Table tennis clown
says Table tennis clown
Well-Known Member
Apr 2020
3,439
1,872
7,442
The grander any organization or government becomes , the more power they have
and the more likely they will be making decision ,rules and laws that will benefit either
only themselves or a small group.
Most so called democratic institutions will have inbuilt ways to correct this but mainly this
remains but a token gesture.

Sorry about that guys. I used to be a poet and a philosopher - but now I am just a bum, who plays ping pong badly 😂
 
says Table tennis clown
says Table tennis clown
Well-Known Member
Apr 2020
3,439
1,872
7,442
With ITTF this is a bit more complicated.
There is absolutely no doubt that more than 50% of total population of players definitely want all pips & anti gone.
And more than 50% the player's representatives from member associations are definitely former booster supremacists & they also definitely want all pips & anti gone.
But making this RULE change requires 75% of vote from 226 or so Member Associations of ITTF
Another big fear is that if you ban all pips & anti they will go and start their own association (like the speed-glue supremacists threatened to do in 1995 to get the severe version of the speed-glue ban repealed) )though they enjot being slave biatches of the two wing extremists because they seriously believe that ITTF cares about them & diversity. ITTF does not of course want this and this would be serious dilution of ITTF's control & the gravy train from IOC would stop..
These executive committee members know this all too well. This is why they keep the pips / anti players as their slave biatches while slowly passing change after change either as a rule change or a regulation change as is the case with the 9 changes since 1983 to severely limit the capabilities of pips / anti while the booster superemacists enjoy their criminal boosters with zero chemical inspections but maximum visual inspections (of pips) rackets at lower levels.
Another funny thing is that most booster supremaicts will never admit that they hate pips / anti and are masterful backstabbers who pretend like they oh so admire pips / anti players. And the pips / anti players fall for this though more and more pips / anti players are beginning to understand that the long pips on LARC are a total joke in the 40+ plastic balls ONLY era.
ANSWER THE QUESTION or say I DO NOT KNOW
ANSWER THE QUESTION or say I DO NOT KNOW
ANSWER THE QUESTION or say I DO NOT KNOW
ANSWER THE QUESTION or say I DO NOT KNOW
ANSWER THE QUESTION or say I DO NOT KNOW
ANSWER THE QUESTION or say I DO NOT KNOW

I wish my universe was all about pimples.
Remember Shakespeare : To be or not to be - that is the question
JamesZ has managed in his little world to reduce this to : Pimple or not pimple................
But then what do you expect from a boy in puberty
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lazer
says Spin and more spin.
says Spin and more spin.
Well-Known Member
Super Moderator
Dec 2010
16,172
17,750
54,904
Read 11 reviews
ANSWER THE QUESTION or say I DO NOT KNOW
ANSWER THE QUESTION or say I DO NOT KNOW
ANSWER THE QUESTION or say I DO NOT KNOW
ANSWER THE QUESTION or say I DO NOT KNOW
ANSWER THE QUESTION or say I DO NOT KNOW
ANSWER THE QUESTION or say I DO NOT KNOW

I wish my universe was all about pimples.
Remember Shakespeare : To be or not to be - that is the question
JamesZ has managed in his little world to reduce this to : Pimple or not pimple................
But then what do you expect from a boy in puberty
Hey Lodro, James Z has complained that you are spamming and trolling him with comments like this. He seemed to be a bit upset. I just wanted to let you know.
 
says Table tennis clown
says Table tennis clown
Well-Known Member
Apr 2020
3,439
1,872
7,442
Hey Lodro, James Z has complained that you are spamming and trolling him with comments like this. He seemed to be a bit upset. I just wanted to let you know.
Thanks for the heads up .
I might have complained long ago about JamesZ but i do not know how 😇
Of course if you tell me how to complain I shall tell all my friends and we then all complain about
the real troll.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: UpSideDownCarl
says Spin and more spin.
says Spin and more spin.
Well-Known Member
Super Moderator
Dec 2010
16,172
17,750
54,904
Read 11 reviews
Thanks for the heads up .
I might have complained long ago about JamesZ but i do not know how 😇
Of course if you tell me how to complain I shall tell all my friends and we then all complain about
the real troll.
To be honest, he said he did not care a handful of times while sending me a message that sort of indicated something else. :)
 
says Table tennis clown
says Table tennis clown
Well-Known Member
Apr 2020
3,439
1,872
7,442
BTW I was not complaining about Lodro. I was only "commenting" about some repeated spam he posted.
But again if it is ok with USDC , I have no problem with it.
Well then, if we are all friends and nobody complains then you might as well :

ANSWER THE QUESTION or say I DO NOT KNOW
ANSWER THE QUESTION or say I DO NOT KNOW
ANSWER THE QUESTION or say I DO NOT KNOW
ANSWER THE QUESTION or say I DO NOT KNOW
ANSWER THE QUESTION or say I DO NOT KNOW
ANSWER THE QUESTION or say I DO NOT KNOW 😁
 
says Spin and more spin.
says Spin and more spin.
Well-Known Member
Super Moderator
Dec 2010
16,172
17,750
54,904
Read 11 reviews
If it does not have a link to something and nothing is being sold, how can it be spam?

If it is annoying, then the person who has had over 70 complaints about him in the past few weeks complaining about someone else seems a bit comical to me. :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: lodro
says Table tennis clown
says Table tennis clown
Well-Known Member
Apr 2020
3,439
1,872
7,442
If it does not have a link to something and nothing is being sold, how can it be spam?

If it is annoying, then the person who has had over 70 complaints about him in the past few weeks complaining about someone else seems a bit comical to me. :)
so true and the thing is he actually still has not answered my question 🤣
He thinks he did and probably wrote 3 pages of what an idiot i am but ..............🤣
 
  • Like
Reactions: Scarfed Garchomp
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Sep 2013
7,554
6,740
16,382
Read 3 reviews
If it does not have a link to something and nothing is being sold, how can it be spam?

If it is annoying, then the person who has had over 70 complaints about him in the past few weeks complaining about someone else seems a bit comical to me. :)
only 70?

Why does it have to have a link or selling to be a spam?

the signature itself is spam.
 
says Spin and more spin.
says Spin and more spin.
Well-Known Member
Super Moderator
Dec 2010
16,172
17,750
54,904
Read 11 reviews
only 70?

Why does it have to have a link or selling to be a spam?

the signature itself is spam.
Spam Definition:

"Spam is any unsolicited communication sent in bulk. Usually sent via email, spam is also distributed through text messages (SMS), social media, or phone calls. Spam messages often come in the form of harmless (though annoying) promotional emails. But sometimes spam is a fraudulent or malicious scam."

James Z's messages may be annoying. They may be repetitive, but they are not sent in bulk and it is not a real or fake sales pitch. His comments almost entirely revolve around the equipment people use, are allowed to use and how he hates the ITTF for rules about equipment, many of which go back to the 1980s and 1990s.

So, annoying yes. But I don't think it falls into the category of spam. There is no scam associated with what he is presenting and there is no product or advertising that is associated with his posts. So....he may annoy people. But it is something distinctly different than spam.

"What is an example of spam?

Spammers send emails claiming that a recipient has won a sweepstakes or a prize. To collect the prize, the recipient must click on a link within the email. The link is malicious and is typically used to steal the user's personal information."

==

"To help avoid spam, follow these four tips

  • Slow down. Spammers want you to act first and think later. If the message conveys a sense of urgency, carefully review before deciding to act.
  • Research the facts. Be suspicious of any unsolicited messages. If the email looks like it is from a company you use, but something seems off, do your research.
  • Beware of any download. If you don’t know the sender personally, and receive a file out of the blue, be weary of downloading.
  • Don’t let a link be in control of where you land. Find the website yourself using a search engine to be sure you land where you intend to land. Hovering over links in email will show the actual URL at the bottom, but a good fake can still steer you wrong."
This is information associated with spam, protecting yourself from spam and identifying spam. Spam is more than someone just posting annoying messages or repeating themself over and over.
 

JHB

says Aged and infirm of purpose
Well, while we are "digressing", waiting for some nerd to actually tell us when and why ITTF brought out the rule that there had to be a) 2 different colors and b) red and black, there is no rule that orders anybody to have either color on the FH and/or BH respectively.
Maybe a majority of the Chinese players we see on TV and YouTube have the black as the FH.
Basically, whatever rings your bell is fine. If you are using the same rubber on either side there really is no problem anyway.
The real problem can start when you go to different rubbers.
That will really open a can of worms. 😁
Not wanting to get involved in the pips/anti debate, but if I may hark back to this question ! Players of a certain age may remember a British guy by the name of John Hilton who became European Singles Champion in 1980 "Despite being a relatively unknown amateur player" as Wikipedia puts it. While it would be nice to regard this as a Boris Becker/Emma Raducanu moment, it was not really the case ! John Hilton used antispin on one side of his bat and a fairly spinny rubber on the other - both rubbers were black, and he twiddled frequently during rallies. Simply put, his opponents usually had no clue which rubber the last shot had been played with and consequently what sort of spin was on the ball. It is also alleged that Hilton developed a technique of "squeaking" his shoes on the floor as he hit the ball, in order to mask the slightly different sounds of the two rubbers - not sure I totally buy into that one. The two-colour rule was brought in in 1983, and this chap and those who subsequently copied him were a large part of the reason why .
 
Last edited:
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Sep 2013
7,554
6,740
16,382
Read 3 reviews
Spam Definition:



James Z's messages may be annoying. They may be repetitive, but they are not sent in bulk and it is not a real or fake sales pitch. His comments almost entirely revolve around the equipment people use, are allowed to use and how he hates the ITTF for rules about equipment, many of which go back to the 1980s and 1990s.

So, annoying yes. But I don't think it falls into the category of spam. There is no scam associated with what he is presenting and there is no product or advertising that is associated with his posts. So....he may annoy people. But it is something distinctly different than spam.



==

This is information associated with spam, protecting yourself from spam and identifying spam. Spam is more than someone just posting annoying messages or repeating themself over and over.

so next question.
same annoying content, over many threads in the same time (I think you warned him many times about choosing just 1 thread and not many)
where does this fit
 
says Spin and more spin.
says Spin and more spin.
Well-Known Member
Super Moderator
Dec 2010
16,172
17,750
54,904
Read 11 reviews
so next question.
same annoying content, over many threads in the same time (I think you warned him many times about choosing just 1 thread and not many)
where does this fit
As I said, it may be annoying. But the term spam refers to something different than what he is doing.

Is one worse than the other? It depends on the version of spam and/or how much James Z (SJan) is getting under your skin. But I would just ignore him if you don't like what he has to say. I mean, he has not really said anything new or different, interesting or helpful in.....well....maybe 40 years. :)
 
Top