Rubber advice for Stiga All-Round Classic Blade

[Dragan Glas]

Greetings,

I have three blades which were made-up back in 2008 - the last time I played.

They are a Stiga All-Round Classic {ALL} with worn-out Donic JO Waldner rubbers, a Stiga Energy Wood WRB (OFF-) with unused/protected Donic Coppa Tagora, and a Stiga Clipper Wood WRB (OFF) with unused/protected Donic Supersonic S40.

I normally transition through the three bats during a season rather than buy new rubbers for the same bat - this way I can play myself back into form with the Stiga ARC, then use the Energy WRB when my technique is grooved, and finally use the Classic WRB towards the end of the season as my confidence in my form is at its highest.

I can still keep the Energy and Clipper woods for later in the season as the rubbers on them are still as new - I just need new rubbers for the Stiga ARC, as I used them at the start of the 2008 season before returning to Ireland from the UK.

Given the cost of the best rubbers these days, I'm only looking for mid-price rubbers - Mark V and variants, Vari Spin D.TecS, Sriver and variants, Bryce, etc.

I'm a looper normally off both wings. I prefer rubbers particularly for spin serves on the forehand, and rubbers for returning spin serves on the backhand.

Forehand
1) Spin serves;
2) Control-spin attack and hits (smash, drives, etc);
3) Touch-play.

Backhand
1} Return short spin serves (flick, push, touch-play);
2) Fast top-spin attack, (counter-)hitting, blocks, etc.

As an interesting aside, at least to the science-oriented like myself, I came across a couple of articles on blades and tacky rubbers. The author's take-aways on both included the following:

A beginner should start with an all-round blade ( early catapult effect ) and at least medium to medium-hard rubbers. The forehand should be harder than the backhand and the max sponge thickness should be used.

If he gets better, an off- blade ( medium late catapult effect ) and even harder rubbers can be used. Pay attention that you don’t stick to your medium rubber on the backhand side if you “upgrade” your blade, because this combination might be hard to control. In this case, upgrade the backhand rubber to medium-hard as well.

Hence the recommendation to use nontacky rubbers for amateurs, nontacky rubbers for intermediate players with the option to upgrade to a tacky forehand as a long term investment and finally the tacky forehand plus nontacky backhand combination of (semi-) professional players.

I used to use Chinese sticky and Japanese tacky rubbers but moved from them to the normal rubbers. I'd prefer Tensor-type rubbers for spin serves and looping. The articles suggest using medium hardness sponges of maximum thickness with a flexible blade, which is what the Stiga ARC would be. Hence the VariSpin would be interesting - the only issue being its soft sponge, which might be compensated for by using maximum thickness.

Any suggestinos from loopers with experience of the above listed rubbers or others would be of interest.

Kindest regards,

James

 

[Suga D]

Hello James,

i'm quite surprised so far no one's been responding to this.
So i'll be the first then, great...
Ok, here we go:

A pretty common setup in our club and the league i play in is
FH: Desto F2 BH: Desto F3
It's not a very pricey setup. The Desto is an old tensor and you mostly get discounts buying them.

Also popular is FH: Bluefire M2 or jp01 BH: Bluefire M3 or jp03

I've played both of them about 2-3 years ago. And the black bluefire m2 on my FH was producin' crazy spin but still isn't too bouncy, which is helpful @ shortplay. The M3 is a little softer and a little bit more bouncy. I've found the Bluefire way spinnier than the Desto
One opponent wanted to look at my fh rubber cause he thaught it was a tacky chinese rubber and then couldn't believe his eyes.

I actually liked the Bluefire more than the Desto, but that's just my personal preference. I have clubmates who are pretty satisfied with their Desto.

The tibhar evolution series is also pretty common, but since i haven't tested them myself, maybe some first hand information would probably be a little more helpful...

Hope this here helps a little.

 

[anchorschmidt]

I have also read both articles. I can recommend the Rakza 7 in max for the forehand. It might feel very hard and undynamic in the beginning but after 4 sessions, it started playing a lot better. The surface of the rubber was a bit slippery in the beginning which lead to some slipping when I contacted the ball thinly but the surface has much more grip now.

The hard sponge keeps the rubber nice and controlled in short play. Looping, smashing and driving also works pretty well. Compared to Tenergy 05, it's slower but more forgiving. It's not that sensitive to spin but you can produce a lot, given a somewhat good technique. It's also pretty good for receiving serves, provided you know more or less what has been served. Errors are not as severely punished as with Tenergy 05.

I have also played with Mark V for around 9 months. Rakza 7 is more precise in active strokes but perhaps with slightly less control in passive strokes. Spin is noticeably higher in short play and slightly higher for looping. Both rubbers are very similar for smashes with the Rakza having more power.

If you want to spend less, I've heard praise for the Xiom Vega Pro and a LOT of players use it but I've never tried it.

 

[Dragan Glas]

Greetings,

Thank you both, Suga D and anchorschmidt, for your replies.

I'm keeping prices down to below £30/€40.

Needless to say the Chinese rubbers - DHS, Friendship - are as cheap as dirt (as low as £10/€13), possibly reflecting their unpredictable quality of top-sheet. A number of others are within my price limit - however, as usual, they don't always indicate the hardness of the sponge.

The Xiom Vega Pro you mention, anchorschmidt, is a harder sponge rubber, which looks interesting. Although my usual suppliers - Teesport - don't offer it, CelticTT do at a cheaper price than TT11!

Would this be a FH or BH rubber? I could use it on both wings but I prefer to use different rubbers so I can "twirl" during a rally and present different problems to my opponent on-the-fly.

How about the Desto sponge, Suga D - is it soft/medium/hard?

Kindest regards,

James

 

[Der_Echte]

Hmmm Dragan, "ya know one of the previous regime's goals was to (successfully) hike equipment costs in excess of inflation and common sense.

30-40 teuros is gunna keep you in the lower end of the upper class of modern rubbers. You will hit ur mark closer to 40 big expensive Euros than 30.

Evo series is GrrrrrrrrrEAaaaaaT !!! However, is isn't a cheepo rubbers everyday price. Aurus is more inexpensive and likey to fall in your price range, but on the Allround, it is a control class with a little upside, maybe that is what yuo want and it is perfect. Although Der_Echte gets MONSTER Epic Beast mode spin (perhaps due to the blade mods more than the rubber or hiz crappy technique) Aurus isn't the spinniest beast out there by far, it is simply in the zone of balance I crave.

Xiom Omega Iv/V in a somewhat softer sponge, like euro or the slightly harder Asia sponge might fit in at the top part of your price range.

As much as Suga D observes the German crowd luving Desto F3, that soft ice cream wet dream who couldn't punch hiz way outta a wet paper bag, the Desto, especially F3, that puppy is a dinosaur that is older than Carl's time machine phone and needs 7 lucky layers of Frischkleber Speed Glue to do any harm to a puppy hitting him with a paper fan.

Having said that I bet Suga D and his Landesliga+ friends can make me buy them chicken and beer using F3, but that is besides the point.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

This is what I say: forget about the extra few Euros. Get Evolution EL-P for FH and FX-P for BH. Or, if you like harder rubbers get MX-P for FH and EL-P for BH. These rubbers, the topsheet is really spinny and grabs the ball better than anything else and they last way longer than most rubbers. So in the end you save some money because they will last so much longer than those other rubbers.

Otherwise you could try Yinhe Big Dipper which is pretty good but great for the price.


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[Der_Echte]

Carl, have him go around Europe trying to learn the secret handshake. Once he got that one, he will have no more insurmountable challenges.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Trogdor the Burninator knows the secret handshake. He could learn it from a fellow dragon.

 

[Dragan Glas]

Greetings,

Actually, Carl, I had been thinking of MX-S or EL-P on FH with either FX-P or T05FX on BH - but thought that the price was a bit high before switching over to my Energy WRB in a few months time, as I usually do.

At some point I'll have to bite-the-bullet and spend money if only to try them out for myself instead of doing an "Eric Idle", and asking others "What's it like?".

Kindest regards,

James

 

[anchorschmidt]

Greetings,

Thank you both, Suga D and anchorschmidt, for your replies.

The Xiom Vega Pro you mention, anchorschmidt, is a harder sponge rubber, which looks interesting. Although my usual suppliers - Teesport - don't offer it, CelticTT do at a cheaper price than TT11!

Would this be a FH or BH rubber? I could use it on both wings but I prefer to use different rubbers so I can "twirl" during a rally and present different problems to my opponent on-the-fly.

James

Hi James, in case you want something softer for the backhand, the Xiom Vega Europe is an option.

 

[Dragan Glas]

Greetings,

Thanks, anchorschmidt - the Acuda looks interesting - the only question being, what's the difference between Acuda and Barracuda, apart from the spelling?

Kindest regards,

James

 

[anchorschmidt]

Hi James, I haven't tried any of those rubbers but I can recommend browsing tabletennisdb.com or the equipment section on this website. The Acuda seems to come in three varying sponge degrees for different playing characteristics.

 

[Dragan Glas]

Greetings,

Hi James, I haven't tried any of those rubbers but I can recommend browsing tabletennisdb.com or the equipment section on this website. The Acuda seems to come in three varying sponge degrees for different playing characteristics.

I've been looking at the various sites and reviews - everyone has their own ideas about the various rubbers.

Both P2 versions of Acuda and Barracuda appear to be near medium hardness in terms of the sponge, so they would both be suitable.

I'll keep looking - thanks for your help.

Kindest regards,

James

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Greetings,


I've been looking at the various sites and reviews - everyone has their own ideas about the various rubbers.

Both P2 versions of Acuda and Barracuda appear to be near medium hardness in terms of the sponge, so they would both be suitable.

I'll keep looking - thanks for your help.

Kindest regards,

James

I have another way of giving this advice. This is a sure fire, failsafe way to get the rubbers you want. It is the dartboard method.

Choose as many rubbers as you like. Choose ones you think you will want. Put the name of each rubber on a cue card and put all the cue cards up on a dartboard. Find someone who does not play darts well. Blindfold them. Have them throw the darts at the board until two different rubbers have been hit. Then out the softer one on your backhand side. The rubbers that get picked by this method will work just fine.

I do recommend that you have some of the new rubbers that have been designed for the new plastic ball because they are doing something new when they design the topsheets for the plastic ball.

The Evolution series rubbers are just the rubbers designed for the plastic ball that I like best. But the topsheets of the rubbers designed for the plastic ball are different and grab the ball better than the old topsheets. The sponges they are developing are new and different too. So it is my opinion that you may be best off with the stuff they have developed more recently even though the old stuff does still work for the new plastic ball. It just doesn't work as well.


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[anchorschmidt]

@Carl, we won't be using the plastic ball in our league this year. Have you tried the new stuff with the old balls? Every manufacturer has put emphasis on grip while designing these new rubbers and while they may work great for the more slippery plastic ball, my (half-baked) theory based on no experimentation whatsoever is that this might increase the spin-sensitivity for the old ball without any additional benefits as additional grip wasn't required until the new balls came along.

I had asked a very good player what he thought of the Baracuda and he wrote this.

Der Baracuda zeichnet sich aus meiner Sicht durch folgende Eigenschaften aus:
-vernünftiger Preis -ausgezeichnete Haltbarkeit im Vergleich zum Preis(3 Monate, übliche Verschleißdauer bei meinen Belägen: 2Monate) -im Mittelfeld bzgl. Härte und Gewicht -alle Techniken spielbar -vermittelt Gefühl der Sicherheit, Bälle landen dort wo sie sollen, kein plötzlicher Energieschub

positives: Good durability. Middle hardness and weight. Every technique is playable. Feeling of safety as balls land where they should. No sudden catapult.

 

[Suga D]

How about the Desto sponge, Suga D - is it soft/medium/hard?

Kindest regards,

James

Wow, this thread came to life while i was asleep.

Well,

Donic Rubbers seem to follow a certain logic and work in a similar way.
Meaning:
1 - stands for the hardest
2 - for medium hard
3 - stands for soft

This goes at least for the Desto series, for the Bluefire M series, the Bluefire jp series, the Acuda S series as well as the Acuda P series.

And Der_Echte is quite right. The F3 bottoms out real easy. Even in max. thickness. Especially when you're playing from mid-distance.
Whereas the F1 would be considered rather hard and only shows its full potential by hitting/spinning quite hard.

Have a good one

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

@ anchorschmidt: one of the coolest things about those new rubbers: they work great with either the plastic ball or the celluloid ball. I go back and forth between the two over and over with no problems switching. One club I play at, all training and warm up is done with celluloid and then matches are with poly ball.

Another thing that I think is quite interesting about rubbers like MX-P and Victas that I don't quite understand is: there is way more grip and spin, but somehow they are not responsive to incoming spin. It is strange. But the degree of spin and control is sort of outrageous.

I don't understand it. But I would play with these new rubbers over the old ones any day.


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[Dragan Glas]

Greetings,

Thank you all for your feedback so far.

So, having read various sites with their "blurb" and alleged reviews, my options are Acuda P2 on FH with Barracuda on BH or EL-P and FX-P or MX-S and EL-P.

The two Donic rubbers have medium sponge, where Barracuda - on the BH - having marginally less speed/greater control; MX-S is the only medium one of the Butterfly rubbers - EL-P and FX-P are soft and softest, respectively. So, really it comes down to the Donic pairing or the MX-S/EL-P one - with, maybe, the EL-P/FX-P as a poor third option.

Hmmm... decisions, decisions...

Suggestions - bearing in mind the listed priorities I posted in the opening post?

Kindest regards,

James

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

MX-S is the only medium one of the Butterfly rubbers - EL-P and FX-P are soft and softest, respectively. So, really it comes down to the Donic pairing or the MX-S/EL-P one - with, maybe, the EL-P/FX-P as a poor third option.

When you said Butterfly I think you meant Tibhar because Tibhar makes the Evolution series rubbers.

Also you should know, EL-P, I think that is straight medium. I think the Evo range goes like this:
FX-P: medium soft
EL-P: medium
MX-P: medium hard
then:
MX-S: left field: medium hard with more tack and more grip and the sponge has less catapult. So it is like Euro/Jap meets Chinese Tacky half way in between. It is supposed to play better close and mid-distance and need a bit more effort than MX-P from further back.



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[Dragan Glas]

Greetings,

When you said Butterfly I think you meant Tibhar because Tibhar makes the Evolution series rubbers.

You're correct, of course, Carl - I was getting punchy reading all the reviews.

Also you should know, EL-P, I think that is straight medium. I think the Evo range goes like this:
FX-P: medium soft
EL-P: medium
MX-P: medium hard
then:
MX-S: left field: medium hard with more tack and more grip and the sponge has less catapult. So it is like Euro/Jap meets Chinese Tacky half way in between. It is supposed to play better close and mid-distance and need a bit more effort than MX-P from further back.

Reading the various reviews, it's difficult to say whether it's medium or medium-soft - certainly FX-P is the softest

I wouldn't mind MX-S as I play close to the table anyway - I don't back-off. The spin looks good - as good as, if not better than, MX-P, according to the various websites I've visited.

However, I'll probably stick with the Donic pairing, as I'm familiar with their rubbers.

So, thank you all for your input.

Kindest regards,

James