Matchplay Footage and Counterlooping Practice Footage

[Archosaurus]

My backhand was actually what I've been working on since the turn of the year, but I'm not too confident in using it during a match because I switched my Yasaka mkV soft for a Skyline II Neo which is really reactive to incoming spin. My stroke has improve noticeably with the new rubber but I'm only still comfortable with drilling the bh.

Also, I was reviewing my footage of a previous match and my footwork was TERRIBLE so I was trying to counter that by using my fh more on the bh side I guess

It's just a case of getting your backhand loop to the point where you're confident. Sometimes, although probably not yet for you, it's just a case of "****ing doing it already" and you'll start hitting them. I suggest you to keep drilling it, though. At least until you can easily vary spin and pace.

Now I am even more interested in that videotape of your play.

Archosaurus, take it from me that you are very intelligent, but most good players in table tennis did not get good by understanding what they do, they got good by drilling as children. As a good friend likes to say, if you ask a high level player something technical, most of them will just shadow their movement and report what they think.

So what I will tell you is this - as much as you can, defer to higher rated players not because you think they are right, but because you appreciate how difficult the questions you are asking them are. Their opinions have value, but if you really want a technical answer, look for the high level coaches. Those are the guys whose job it is to make players better so they try to teach. Not just the ones who drill but the ones who prescribe solutions when your drills are not producing the right results.

Oh, I understand what you mean.

I've had to entirely self coach myself and I don't consider myself particularly talented in any sports, so everything I know to do, I know to explain. Unfortunately, or fortunately, some very good players have never really had to think about this themselves. Thus it's hard to get answers out of them.

So, the feedback of a not so high rated player but good coach is valuable.

 

[DoctorPaco]

But OP is young. He has time to figure it out and the dangerous advice may be enough anyways.

DrPaco,

For playing 13 months, your game is excellent. There are things you can work on and which I will comment on later, after watching the videos, but you are on a good path. Who is your coach?

My coach is an 82 year old, plays like Waldner with a 1lb blade made in the 50's. He's been playing for 70 years. He had the opportunity to enter the National team, but the salary was so low. He still played in an inter-bank and an inter-company league, where he won the singles and (I think) team titles 23 years in a row. This was actually a really serious league because at some point the other companies hired national players to compete in the league. He also coached his nephew who became collegiate champion.

He really does stress consistency, but since the start of the year he's been making me play more aggressive shots. But I think his expectations for me at the moment are getting a bit too high. I was able to compromise; we warm up with me doing 250 loops on the fh and 250 on the bh for consistency before we get into the other drills. Problem is, he's developing cataracts so he isn't able to read spin as well, but he doesn't want to have them removed until they get bad.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

I have turned a few hobbies into professions. With table tennis I refuse to do that. I really don't want to coach other people. I want table tennis to remain a hobby that is about me having fun. There are a few times where a coach asked me to coach and give a lesson to one of his students because he was too busy. And I am totally competent. But it is not something I look to do.

However, in my actual profession, I do teach people how do use and do things with their body.

I am going to talk for a moment about the process of teaching and learning. Trying to teach is the act of trying to help someone else learn. Trying to learn is about going from not understanding something to understanding it. To get from not understanding to understanding is a process THAT IS DIFFERENT FOR EVERYBODY. So teaching is a process of problem solving what will help a person get from not understanding something to understanding it.

In a case where you are using your physical body and there is a high degree of hand eye coordination as is the case in table tennis, the process is still about the mind understanding the issue. But, it is also about your body sorting out and understanding the issue. For each person the process will be different. You have people who learn better when they see what they not doing well. There are people who learn better when it is explained to them. There are people who are tactile learners where they have to feel it. And there are people who are abstract learners. In table tennis, in the end, we all have to feel and do the actions and get them into muscle memory. But what will get us to learn it most effectively will be different for everyone.

As I see it, a lot of the errors that Paco makes are on misreading the ball coming at him. His technique looks decent. Sometimes he does not see accurately where the ball is going so he is not there. But quite often he has misjudged how much topspin is on the ball and hits the ball long. Sometimes he swings and completely misses the ball.

The biggest things I see are things that will straighten themselves out with more play. Play with a coach or a high level player who can help him drill and correct mistakes as they happen would be extremely beneficial. But most of the stuff going on for him will sort themselves out even if he just plays with anybody.

As NextLevel said, for playing for only 13 months, Paco is doing really, quite well. I would say he is doing excellent.

The problem solving for what will make him better the fastest would best be done by a coach who sees Paco in person. But, from looking at things, I would say, the biggest issue is that he should work on getting more spin on all his shots. Over time, that would fix more of his errors faster than anything else. The eye hand coordination stuff that fails every so often will straighten out. The misjudging balls will be fixed faster by his learning to develop heavier topspin, than by anything else I can think of.

I think there is one other simple detail that will help. Paco, I think you need to be watching your opponent as he hits the ball better. You have to be watching his racket angle and the subtle things he does with the racket when he hits the ball to see better what is on the ball and to see sooner, where the ball is going. You should be set to watch the ball as he contacts it; you should be set to do that as your shot bounces on his side. And you should be focused on watching the ball and his racket during his contact.

 

[Archosaurus]

+1 to Carl about watching the opponent.

I used to not have a block at all, and every time someone looped, even at highschool level friendly play, it blew past me.

Then I realized that you can see 90% of where the ball is probably going to go based on what they're doing on the backswing and contact, and after some practice in match situations, people can't get much past me anymore. Even directly on the table, I can easily block power shots from lower players and even equal players.

It just suddenly developed itself (Although I have a Waldner like talent for specifically forehand blocking very, very well for my level) but it would not have been possible in the slightest without being aware.

One of the biggest differences between higher and lower players is awareness. Higher players see easy opportunities to end the point even with a push when playing lower players, due to their awareness. When a lower player powerloops to a higher player, it just gets blocked back.

 

[NextLevel]

DrPaco,

I looked at the videos. Carl gave the best advice in that you need to loop much more and play with more spin consistently. Focus on spin over speed for a while. Then when your shot selection becomes really good, you can mix it up. You play too many balls at your opponent, and it is probably because you don't vary your stroke timing.

Your grip is a bit of an issue, but if you like it, it is what it is. It is definitely hurting your BH technique - the pointed finger is too high on the racket. IF you need BH videos to help you, I can provide a few. But you clearly have a good coach and you are a good player. And I think that other than your reading of the game and backhand play (you push too many serves), your strokes and technique definitely look solid.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

You play too many balls at your opponent, and it is probably because you don't vary your stroke timing.

Funny. I almost said this part and decided it didn't need to be said. His stroke is what it is and he is hitting where he can. As things jell a bit more, he will be choosing where he places the ball rather than being stuck with where his stroke places the ball based on his response to what is coming at him. More experience and that will happen. But it is actually probably a good time, as he works on a higher level of spin, to also think about placement. Good analysis through and through.

 

[Archosaurus]

I've noticed he has some terrible habits in his strokes. Lifting the wrong leg, stretching the body, brushing nearly completely upwards etc.

Those stem from bad shot selection, but IMO also inability to execute the shot automatically, on command. That is why I suggested he drills his strokes: to get a consistent base.

Remember, you can do lots of things with my ball throwing method. Throw it to your left side and pivot to the ball. Throw it far right and cross step to it. Throw it in front of you so you need to go to it, throw it in the spot where it's just too far that you need to do a mini step to get the ideal stroke etc.
You can vary height as well. I've got actually quite good at looping from any height just due to this: the timing you need to do it, and consistent practice in looping low balls, knees bent nearly 90 degrees.

 

[DoctorPaco]

Regarding spin, I can put very strong spin ONLY IF it's in a drill and I know where it's going. Also, I can't seem to generate a lot of spin when I take the ball at the top of the bounce.

Those bad habits you pointed out, Archosaurus, really frustrate me. I feel like they come from me reacting to the ball as it arrives and not as soon as the opponent plays his shot, and also a lack of balance causes me to lift my left leg and stomp it down after the shot.

I'm getting so much valuable advice from Archo, Carl, and NextLevel I feel like I should be paying you guys for all your time spent on me. Hahaha! Maybe a "Ma Long Tuned H3 National" would suffice? Hahaha

 

[Archosaurus]

I think it's exactly that.

Your footwork and stroke mechanics are not timed in rhythm. You need to start moving as soon as they contact. To see when to move, look at the opponent. Make sure you footwork is coherent, too. That you're actually moving your legs in an efficient way, and that your body is in a good posture.

It's a bit like in motor racing, where beginners feel that everything is rushed and they're reacting as it comes resulting in really bad form, while the veterans look ahead into the turns and can spot problems and the line to drive with many seconds to spare.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Maybe a "Ma Long Tuned H3 National" would suffice? Hahaha

Der_Echte, I think he may be trying to get the goon squad after us yet again. LOL.


Sent from Deep Space by Abacus

 

[Der_Echte]

Your counterloop practice is not really counterlooping in my opinion. Your partner does not play any topspins at all.

I'd estimate you on something between 1550 - 1650 TTR (German) points, that would be approximataly something between 1850 - 2050 USATT.

I hereby nominate Xylit to take over for Frau Merkle when Germany has no more use for her.

Xylit, you have a Swiss way of flattery about you. I have no TTR, (nor can I spell diplomacy) but I would pay in range of 1600-1700 and would make his girlfriend who watches the match leave this dude forever.

You are very generous with your assessment.

That is OK for two reasons, it is good to have good manners. (That I do not) It is good for a player to enjoy the game completely, I did when I started and was this player's level.

Still, in USA, he would be average to slightly above average adult player among the regular adult junkie crowd. Not a rub on OP< I was there before, been ther, done that, got the free T-Shirt. 4 yrs in Korea helped me out a little. If not for that, I would be the same level forever, he has a lot of room to move up.

 

[Archosaurus]

Also, you should decide on what your "FH stroke" and what your "BH stroke" are, and then do those. The ideal solution is to first be able to do a "standard stroke" then reproduce that in games. It will eliminate all these strange body movements.

The standard stroke is what you will base your other strokes on. My standard forehand shot is a loop shot that's medium speed/spin with a high arc to the endline. My knees are bent more than yours are, and there's some load shifting but it's minimal. Backswing is extended, contact is bent and follow through is vertical in front of my nose, racket tip above my head.

It's the "safe shot" that I can do to basically any ball that I can't attack hard but can get to in time.

From that, I have developed:
a bent and straight arm counterloop

an aggressive straight arm loop on put away shots

a straight arm loop on blocks and counters

a bent arm hook and fade shot from high and low

a bent arm loop with knees bent nearly 90 degrees to attack half long serves

an under the net powerloop and under the net spinny loop, both with straight and bent arm in case I have to play a quite low ball from very close or very far from the table

a medium height smash (Although I prefer looping head height for consistency due to spin) and a high height smash.

Then there's the occasional "improvised topspin blocks" which are just wrist movements with topspin to get a ball back on the table when you get a put away shot to your elbow and you're stuck too close.

The common aspect is that all of these shots are derived from the same stroke and they're essentially the same stroke, just emphasizing different aspects. Why it's important to have that standard stroke is so your body knows automatically what it needs to do in what situation. Thus your options increase, and your level gets higher.

 

[Der_Echte]

Your counterloop practice is not really counterlooping in my opinion. Your partner does not play any topspins at all.

I'd estimate you on something between 1550 - 1650 TTR (German) points, that would be approximataly something between 1850 - 2050 USATT.

Der_Echte, I think he may be trying to get the goon squad after us yet again. LOL.


Sent from Deep Space by Abacus

The Goon Squad would eat the OP alive, the OP can freely purchase and use the national versions, he is exactly the clientele the company authorizes.

Yet again, it is never wise to mess with this dude's countrymen in his nation, his friends and their friends can form an unbeatable teamwork if you rile them up. Nobody escapes, no matter how big, they gunna fall over there. Go ahead an under-rate dudes from that territory over there, the one doing that is in for something.

 

[Der_Echte]

The OP's struggles with shots are the obvious beginners' errors of seeing the ball, what is on it, where it is gunna be and basic bio-mechanics. EVERYONE struggles with this in our sport starting out.

Eventually, he will get structured practice with someone(s) right next to him showing him what he did wrong and kick hiz azz a little.

However, we all do not have an effective coach near us and make do with what we got - the internet TT forums !!!

Next level is the ultimate SURVIVOR WARRIOR in this regard for an adult starting awkward and using internet to identify, drill, and overcome deficiencies.

 

[Archosaurus]

Although I must stress that OP should learn to self coach as well. Eventually, at some point, you need to take your game in control for yourself and know deep inside how you want to play and what to do to play like that.

OP's problems are far more basic, and generally just need some time and high quality practice to back it up. It's not that OP's body or mechanics are faulty and he is challenged in doing a good stroke: it's his eyes.

He needs to learn to see, because you cannot get anywhere if you don't know where it is you're going.

 

[RajaLoopah]

Do you play at Captain's Paco? I will be going to Manila in the first week of April
to train. It's in Las Pinas city, I will be training there for two weeks lol

Wag mo na intindihin sinasabi nung butiki mas magaling ka pang maglaro dun
dun tayo kila Nextlevel at Carl at mas alam nila etong isa kasi mga theory lang ata.
Saan ka ba nag-aaral? at ano ang malapit na club dyan? try mo pumunta panigurado
may aayos sa mga mali mo dun.