Slower rubbers to learn better technique?

[Archosaurus]

Sharing your knowledge is good. When you give it away, you get to keep it, too!

So, why would I not be helping people who cannot get a better coach and just want to improve a bit? Are you really crooked enough to try to discourage me from doing that?

 

[Shuki]

Sharing knowledge is good. -Correct

but sharing knowledge with lower level players that will in turn inhibit their playing because you yourself don't have the knowledge. Not good.

 

[Archosaurus]

So you are suggesting that instead of teaching people the things that I am sure of and have received confirmation for being correct, I should let them potentially injure themselves and at best develop really strange and unpractical habits?

 

[Shuki]

So you are suggesting that instead of teaching people the things that I am sure of and have received confirmation for being correct, I should let them potentially injure themselves and at best develop really strange and unpractical habits?

people were sure the world was flat. guide them toward online videos or something instead of you.

edit: you've stated there are no high level players near you so how can you be sure what you know is correct?

 

[Archosaurus]

I fail to see how a few minutes long online video will actively help someone develop feel and understanding. You don't need a world class coach to experiment with spin with someone else feeding you balls.

I have told my friends many times: get a proper coach if you want to really do it right. Otherwise, all I can do is help them not get injured and maybe hit the ball a little better and move a little better.

 

[Shuki]

I fail to see how a few minutes long online video will actively help someone develop feel and understanding. You don't need a world class coach to experiment with spin with someone else feeding you balls.

I have told my friends many times: get a proper coach if you want to really do it right. Otherwise, all I can do is help them not get injured and maybe hit the ball a little better and move a little better.

doesnt have to be a few minute long video. look at how NL's game developed with the help of ttedge.

 

[Archosaurus]

We're talking about recreational players here. They play for kicks and to develop their technique a bit and to play some fancy shots.

You're failing to understand that NL's game didn't develop from the study material. His game developed from his own action and later when he got coaching from a professional, high level coach. A lot of work was included.

Recreational players are not going to go through all that hassle and pay a regular fee to get coaching and advice from a good program.

While the only way to really get proficient at table tennis is to get high quality coaching and high quality and quantity training, there's still other ways to approach the sport that you might not appreciate.

Not everyone has to be a high level elite player like you.

EDIT: I am sure it's correct because it works in my context, and people who are far better than myself, who surely have the aspect of the game down well, have said I'm doing the right thing.

Now, how correct it is, is another matter. Many pro players' strokes are "not correct" and are yet still improving.

 

[Shuki]

We're talking about recreational players here. They play for kicks and to develop their technique a bit and to play some fancy shots.

You're failing to understand that NL's game didn't develop from the study material. His game developed from his own action and later when he got coaching from a professional, high level coach. A lot of work was included.

Recreational players are not going to go through all that hassle and pay a regular fee to get coaching and advice from a good program.

While the only way to really get proficient at table tennis is to get high quality coaching and high quality and quantity training, there's still other ways to approach the sport that you might not appreciate.

Not everyone has to be a high level elite player like you.

they play for kicks and want to just hit good shots? you can do that with ANY form. the "correct form" will just make you more consistent and conserve energy whilst giving proper leverage and other aspects. these players you're describing don't need your coaching they just need to play more and enjoy the game. If they want to get better with coaching then having them believe that your coaching would be even remotely a good idea is just morally wrong.

I'm not even close to high level, I consider myself a terrible player. I'm just working hard on improving. and as someone who knows more about improving, I wouldn't wish the advice you give players on any newbies.

 

[Archosaurus]

The players I am playing with have specifically problems in consistency, conserving energy, generating economic power and recovering fast. I don't have as big problems, so it's natural that I can help them at least lessen their problems.

But, their end goal is not to become a lean, mean table tennis machine.


I understand your thoughts, but I find them hard to agree with. You are displaying quite some hypocrisy, you see. You consider yourself a terrible player, yet you advise people and speak things that you believe to be truths.

Is it just a case of myself being an even more terrible player, then? Is there some kind of "terribleness level" where you are not allowed to help other people? At which point is helping other people morally wrong?

@NextLevel
@UpSideDownCarl
@NDH

I'm interested in your thoughts.

 

[Shuki]

The players I am playing with have specifically problems in consistency, conserving energy, generating economic power and recovering fast. I don't have as big problems, so it's natural that I can help them at least lessen their problems.

But, their end goal is not to become a lean, mean table tennis machine.


I understand your thoughts, but I find them hard to agree with. You are displaying quite some hypocrisy, you see. You consider yourself a terrible player, yet you advise people and speak things that you believe to be truths.

Is it just a case of myself being an even more terrible player, then? Is there some kind of "terribleness level" where you are not allowed to help other people? At which point is helping other people morally wrong?

@NextLevel
@UpSideDownCarl
@NDH

I'm interested in your thoughts.

my believed truths are based off people who have trained me for what I know so far. People who's career was table tennis. Literally getting paid to learn the game in the correct way and play well. These player's tell me something and I believe it.

Not only do I believe what they tell me, I DO what they tell me, and it pays off. My game improves imensely because of these people which further backs what they say.

 

[Archosaurus]

my believed truths are based off people who have trained me for what I know so far. People who's career was table tennis. Literally getting paid to learn the game in the correct way and play well. These player's tell me something and I believe it.

Not only do I believe what they tell me, I DO what they tell me, and it pays off. My game improves imensely because of these people which further backs what they say.

Yet you are still a terrible player in your eyes, who does not possess the knowledge, and is just repeating what people who do know and can do have told you because it's worked.

The only actual difference between us is that you're just higher level, then.

 

[Shuki]

Final point since nothing's getting through to you. I never said I'm better than you.

I'm talking to a wall.

 

[NextLevel]

The players I am playing with have specifically problems in consistency, conserving energy, generating economic power and recovering fast. I don't have as big problems, so it's natural that I can help them at least lessen their problems.

But, their end goal is not to become a lean, mean table tennis machine.


I understand your thoughts, but I find them hard to agree with. You are displaying quite some hypocrisy, you see. You consider yourself a terrible player, yet you advise people and speak things that you believe to be truths.

Is it just a case of myself being an even more terrible player, then? Is there some kind of "terribleness level" where you are not allowed to help other people? At which point is helping other people morally wrong?

@NextLevel
@UpSideDownCarl
@NDH

I'm interested in your thoughts.

If they are happy to listen to you, by all means, coach them. In life, we get what we deserve.

 

[Archosaurus]

What are you suggesting? I have a hunch, but I'd like to understand your view better, NL.

 

[Shuki]

Basically no, slower rubbers wont help you learn better technique, just make sure you're using a blade with good vibration.

 

[NextLevel]

What are you suggesting? I have a hunch, but I'd like to understand your view better, NL.

Coaching to student is a specific relationship. Better players teach worse players all the time and vice versa. It's hard as a worse player to tell when a better player is teaching you the right thing or the wrong thing. Many people confuse better technique with the ability to hit the ball on the table or the ability to win matches. Some people think better player are better coaches.

You have the analytical mindset of a good coach. I am not so sure you have the technical knowledge or the right temperament. Experience is gained by apprenticeship and learning, but without apprenticeship, you just have to try, and you are doing that. Any students will surely know your track record helping other people as well as the sources of your knowledge and success, so they will be getting the coach they deserve. If they are paying you, it makes a difference as well. If they are not and agree to be your guinea pigs, that is okay too. After all, I used to give people advice when I was a lower rated player and I might not have known that much either. My first coach was higher rated than my current coach, and my first coach was a far worse coach than my current coach for my style of play and where I wanted to go. In the end, we all get the coach we deserve. I would not feel bad if anyone was getting free coaching from you. If they were paying you a fee that they could pay a competent player, that would be more concerning.

 

[Archosaurus]

I understand your point.

Well, fear not. I'm not delusional enough to request monetary compensation for teaching friends. I really hope people haven't misunderstood and thought I'm doing that. It'd be an insult to competent coaches everywhere.

The topic of technical ability and temperament when coaching is interesting, though. I might start a thread of it's own for that subject, if I can narrow it down somehow.

Thanks for your thoughts and time, everyone. And thank you NL specifically for a relatively objective and respectful presentation.

Although it is wrong of me, I value your achievements and views more so than those of people who feel the need to jump to insults as soon as there is a conflicting view or an irritating dialogue. I suppose that is part of the right temperament, as you called it.

 

[NextLevel]

I understand your point.

Well, fear not. I'm not delusional enough to request monetary compensation for teaching friends. I really hope people haven't misunderstood and thought I'm doing that. It'd be an insult to competent coaches everywhere.

The topic of technical ability and temperament when coaching is interesting, though. I might start a thread of it's own for that subject, if I can narrow it down somehow.

Thanks for your thoughts and time, everyone. And thank you NL specifically for a relatively objective and respectful presentation.

Although it is wrong of me, I value your achievements and views more so than those of people who feel the need to jump to insults as soon as there is a conflicting view or an irritating dialogue. I suppose that is part of the right temperament, as you called it.

Your personality is quite testing so I don't blame them to be frank. I hate to say it but I have siblings like you so I know the personality type. If I can't change them, I won't pretend I can change you. At least my association with you is voluntary. With them, it is mandatory.

 

[Xylit]

Whatever the end of your discussion will be and no matter how badly you speak about Archo - if he says that you could close the racket's angle as an answer on heavy topsin he is right and his advice is good.

 

[Archosaurus]

Your personality is quite testing so I don't blame them to be frank. I hate to say it but I have siblings like you so I know the personality type. If I can't change them, I won't pretend I can change you. At least my association with you is voluntary. With them, it is mandatory.

Quite testing is quite a polite way to put it. Hahah.

Well, at least you have learned to withstand the tests and can know you've done right for that. I don't want to blame people for not stomaching what I have to say, but I do want to thank them if they can. It's my fault, in the end. Well, only 98%, if I have to be frank. One needn't be too hard on themselves.


I will assume that because you are here associating with me voluntarily, it means that you are not here because you have a gun to your head and are forced to. So I will treat you with the context of you sacrificing your time for largely my benefit. Credit is where credit is due, I suppose.

@Xylit

I believe so as well, but, is it always good advice? That is what I'm trying to get to.