STIGA Carbonado 45 and 90 blade out now!

This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Active Member
Mar 2013
929
1,233
2,681
Read 3 reviews
ye but it hasnt reached most table tennis stores yet
update: eternity vps v is said to come out at may so im pretty sure the new carbonado blades arent out yet

Well, if that's the case then I think we can blame stiga for any confusion. "Now" doesn't mean "at some point in the future, depending on other blades we have coming out".
 
  • Like
Reactions: Suga D
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Oct 2011
1,043
381
1,659
Read 14 reviews
Regarding April fools I saw that Stiga posting the picture below on there facebook, what do you think about this? The Carbonados can not be a joke since they are in the new catalouge. Has someone been able to order one yet?

12916360_1001218029948085_1048654045915845734_o.jpg
 
Last edited:
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Oct 2011
1,043
381
1,659
Read 14 reviews
Does it looks like Stiga looked at my post and used it as a marketing scheme. :eek:. Or am I being paranoid?

Haha I have seen some other brands also do some marketing on the first April but who knows Rajd :) Have you played with the other Carbonados and can compare it to DHS Hurricane long?
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Member
Dec 2013
274
70
485
Read 6 reviews
38
Haha I have seen some other brands also do some marketing on the first April but who knows Rajd :) Have you played with the other Carbonados and can compare it to DHS Hurricane long?

I own a Carbonado 145.

PFB the comparison.


Carbonado 145H.Long 5
FeelingDirectLittle subdued
CraftsmanshipAlmost perfectPerfect
PowerClose table Mid-Away
Precision10/109/10
ThicknessBit thickerBit thinner
Blade SizeNormal (S)Little bigger
Grip ComfortOkExcellent
Confidence LevelLi XiaoxiaMa Long
Chinese Rubber bondageToo goodHow dare u ask
Euro-Jap Rubber bondagePerfectPerfect
Weight DistributionLittle balancedTop heavy
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Member
Mar 2016
151
83
406
Well, I emailed Stiga and they just got back to me. They assured me the 45 and 90 are indeed real and are among 7 blades that will be released this year. The first blade will be Eternity VPS V.

In Dan's video, he says the Carbonado 145 would even be appropriate for developing players because of the big sweet spot and control. What are your guys' thoughts on that? If the 45 is slightly slower, could it be a good blade for a 400-800 player?
 
Last edited:
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
May 2015
3,238
3,924
27,424
Read 5 reviews
In Dan's video, he says the Carbonado 145 would even be appropriate for developing players because of the big sweet spot and control. What are your guys' thoughts on that? If the 45 is slightly slower, could it be a good blade for a 400-800 player?

I hope usdcarl reads this, 'cause all I can say is, that if you're at a beginners level you should rather be sticking to an all+ all-wood blade like the Stiga allround classic or something slightly faster like the Stiga Allround Evolution.
Most coaches i know would do so.

The reason is in the beginning most players do not yet have such a good feeling for the ball, so a responsive blade that gives you good feedback when you hit the ball properly is way more recommendable than a carbon blade, where the carbon makes you think you've hit the ball proper, when in reality you didn't. The larger sweetspot from the carbon blade is good from mid distance and a step further back, but the slightly smaller sweetspot from the allwood blade will teach you to hit the ball, where it should be hit.
I hope this is understandable and it helps a little. I think carl can explain it a little better though.
And also i must say I haven't tried the carbonado yet, so i might be talkin' bullcrap, but what I said goes for most carbon blades.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: UpSideDownCarl
says Spin and more spin.
says Spin and more spin.
Well-Known Member
Super Moderator
Dec 2010
16,173
17,752
54,924
Read 11 reviews
Suga_D you said it just fine. That is good info.

Of your below 1000 (USATT Rating) using any blade that has carbon in it is a mistake. At least in my opinion. Using a blade that faster than the All- to Off- speed rating is also a mistake.

What a player who is below USATT 1800 should play with is a 5 ply, all wood blade with good dwell time and good ball feel. If you added decent flex to that formula it is even a bit better.

If I have time later I will explain why. But I think Suga_D gave a decent explanation. So his statement could actually stand without my help.


Sent from Deep Space by Abacus
 
  • Like
Reactions: Suga D
says Spin and more spin.
says Spin and more spin.
Well-Known Member
Super Moderator
Dec 2010
16,173
17,752
54,924
Read 11 reviews
Okay, so, let's see if I can do this justice.

One of the biggest issues for a player under a certain level, I said 1800 but in some ways it is 2200, is spin and ball feel. There is a certain point at which a player's touch feel and technique solidifies and these become issues of the past. But, for a developing player

1) Touch
2) Feel
3) Spin

Are 3 parts of one issue that hold the player below a certain level.

By about 1800, some players will have developed decent touch, feel and spin. But, not really always. And most players who are 2000-2100 have pretty decent technique but their technique can be broken down by a better player or by a weird player who presents complicated problems to that player. By around 2200-2300, usually, a players technique has solidified so that, even if an opponent is better or find some way to break the player's GAME down, their technique doesn't break down even though there game does.

At that level you can use any kind of equipment you want and continue to improve.

Somewhere between 1800-2200, many players will have good enough touch, feel and spin to get away with using carbon. But it really depends on the alpha and omega of how we spin the ball: touch and feel.

So, what am I saying here? Most developing players under a certain level need to REALLY work on learning how to generate more spin. Developing better touch is essential to getting better spin. Feeling the ball better is essential to developing better touch. And having a blade that automatically allows you to grab the ball better and have the ball stay on the rubber better (dwell time) are essential to learning how to spin the ball better.

Now you can learn all this stuff with a blade like, say, a Viscaria. But it is harder to and it will take longer to. So, if you want a blade that will help you improve your stroke, your touch, your feel, your ability to hold the ball on the blade face and rubber longer to get more spin, then you probably want a 5 ply, all wood, blade with some decent flex, good dwell time and the right vibrations so that while the ball is on the blade face, it is more easy to feel.

What carbon usually does is, it makes a blade harder under the top ply, lighter--because carbon weighs less than wood--faster, stiffer and it dampens vibrations so you feel the ball less.

10 years ago 8 of 10 players in the top 10 used all wood blades. These days, 8 of 10 players in the top ten use some form of combination composite blade that has Carbon and Arylate or Zylon. The technology has gotten good enough that, at that level, the pros of carbon outweigh the cons. But it is worth understanding that 1 generation ago, most top pros used all wood blades.

The extra flex and dwell time added to the extra ability to feel the ball really help you learn how to hold the ball on the blade face for longer much more quickly. The feel and the ability to feel when your contact is good and when IT IS NOT GOOD, are a huge value. Because part of how a wood blade helps your technique improve is on a sub-cortical level (that means you aren't even conscious of the slight changes your nervous system makes based on the feedback from the blade). Good contact feels really good and your nervous system starts figuring out the accidents you make that give you better contact and dwell time. Bad contact feels bad and your nervous system figures out what not to do because we don't want that bad feeling from spinning the ball.

With a carbon blade, your good contact feels good and SO DOES YOUR MISHITS. And they both feel pretty close to the same. A higher level player has good enough contact for this to no longer be an issue for them. But for most players under around 1800-2000 depending on the player, the technique is not developed enough for this not to get in the way of learning to get more spin more efficiently.

So an all wood, 5 ply, All+ to Off-, flexy blade with good dwell time and good feel, will actually help your nervous system figure out what better contact is without you even realizing it is happening!!!!!!! Totally worth it.

The next part is also simple. With a carbon blade, they are usually faster and too fast for developing good strokes so a lower level player will cut down their stroke and compromise the completeness and followthrough of the stroke for the sake of keeping the ball on the table. So the faster blade that does more of the work and makes you need to cut down your stroke, because it does too much of the work for you can help you cement crappy strokes into muscle memory. And once that happens, those habits which have been wired into your nervous system are hard to change.

A slower blade makes you do more of the work. Helps your body learn how to add the hips and the weight transfer so you get enough power and ensures you have a complete stroke because a stroke without a good followthrough will end up giving you a slow shot that is easy for your opponent to handle. So the slow blade forces the bigger aspects of a good stroke to be learned also.

You could think about it like a batter in baseball in the on-deck circle: he takes his bat, puts a doughnut on it (a weight that makes it heavier) so that when he is at bat and swinging for real his bat feels lighter and he can swing with more power. Till you are about 2000-2200, you want to have to work harder for your strokes. And when you are that level, you will still swing harder with the faster blade because your technique, your touch, your feel, your spin and your body mechanics will be enough better that those will all be in place and done correctly regardless of what blade you use.

Hope that fills in some more of the blanks on why you don't want carbon until your technique is VERY SOLID.

Now, I have a few fast blades and I have a few composite blades. Once in a while it is fun to pull one out and blast away at the ball. So, I think that is okay.

Also, if you play for fun and don't care about getting better, then you just get whatever blade makes you happy and don't worry about it.

But if you want a blade that will help you improve your technique, and you are not a semi-pro level player (an elite player) than 5 plies, all wood, not too fast. And a wood like Limba (soft) for the top ply. Or a slow Hinoki blade if you could find that. Over time the rewards will be evident.


Sent from Deep Space by Abacus
 
Last edited:
says Spin and more spin.
says Spin and more spin.
Well-Known Member
Super Moderator
Dec 2010
16,173
17,752
54,924
Read 11 reviews
I even triple checked if my Abacus double posted because it gave me the error I usually get when it double posts on me. For the most part my Abacus (look it up if you don't know what my magical device for posting from deep space is) is pretty trustworthy. But every once in a while the stick or the beads do something odd and cause a disruption in the quantum level that was unanticipated.


Sent from Deep Space by Abacus
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Suga D
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
May 2015
3,238
3,924
27,424
Read 5 reviews
Thanks carl. Amazing explanation.

Every coach or player that is teaching beginners how to play, or wait actually EVERYBODY should push that 'like'-Button firmly.
[Emoji2]
As far as I understood Mark's post right, he wants to get better, so thanks for jumpin' in and explaining so detailed. Good job, Buddy.
 
says Spin and more spin.
says Spin and more spin.
Well-Known Member
Super Moderator
Dec 2010
16,173
17,752
54,924
Read 11 reviews
To give credit where credit is due, the most important parts of that info, I got from two TT players who are coaches in NYC (actually one used to be but doesn't coach anymore). Both are from European countries and both were on Junior National Teams from their countries. Both me very similar information and told me that when they were a kid, learning, their coach chose their racket (blade and rubbers) for them. They didn't get a choice. They were given a setup that would be good for them and that was that.

They both gave me the basics of the information separately when I was asking about equipment to try and help a friend choose a good setup. At the time I was using a Stiga Clipper and realized that, even though it was all wood, I would probably be better off with a slower all wood blade that had better flex and dwell time.

I wasn't asking for myself but I really benefitted from that information. And, ironically, the guy I was asking the questions for, he got a TB ALC and, even though is level is decently high, his technique totally sucks and he is not going to get much higher. His game savvy and intelligence have gotten him about as far as they will without him learning to spin the ball better.

And, interestingly, I can consistently get more spin than most people I play who are about my level. I credit that information as a big part of why I learned to get decent spin on my loops.


Sent from Deep Space by Abacus
 
says Spin and more spin.
says Spin and more spin.
Well-Known Member
Super Moderator
Dec 2010
16,173
17,752
54,924
Read 11 reviews
Appreciate the advice, guys. I just saw a new shiney and got all gooey-eyed. I'll hold off. Either way, for you more advanced players, the 45 and 90 are indeed real :)

By the way Mark, based on a few things you've said in a few posts, a new setup might not be a bad idea.

These blades would be good for you (in no particular order):

1) Stiga Allround Evolution
2) Yasaka Sweden Extra
3) Tibhar Stratus Power Wood

Those are the inexpensive versions. Next are the expensive versions:

1) Nittaku Violin
2) Nttaku Acoustic
3) OSP Virtuoso Off-

The interesting thing is, the more expensive blades don't necessarily play much better than the less expensive ones. But they might be better crafted and more solid, so, less delicate. I know that Stiga blade is pretty delicate and my OSP V+ is a tank. I have hit the corner of the table with it and thought, "oh no, I'm gonna have to fix the damage," and there wasn't any!!! My V Off- is slightly less indestructible but still, totally solid.

But the more expensive ones will have excellent feeling. And if you get a good one, with the less expensive ones, they will have pretty close to as good feeling. Which is actually the important issue.

If I was you I would pair that with T05FX instead of the T64FX simply because the 05FX will be a little slower, get more spin and allow you to get a bigger arc on your loop.

If you got that setup and used it, for the first week or two, it would feel kind of slow, and you would start out not fully loving it. After about two weeks your technique would have adjusted to the new setup and it will feel like it is a normal speed. After about 2 months of training (if you play 3 or more times a week) it would start feeling like the right speed. And then if you tried your TB ALC it would feel a little faster than you want.

But as your technique adjusts to the slower spinnier setup, it will get better, you will start becoming more effective and efficient at adding more force to your strokes and you will start getting more spin and the pace of your ball, by the end of about 2 months will be about the same as it WAS with the faster setup before you changed because your technique will have actually had to have improved to get the same pace with the slower racket. AND you will have WAY more control. And the spin on your shots will start giving people who were your level more trouble so your shots will be harder to handle. And your technique and therefore your level will go up one level in that period of adjusting to the slower setup.

So, it would be a worthwhile thing to do. Provided you can afford the expense.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Suga D
says Spin and more spin.
says Spin and more spin.
Well-Known Member
Super Moderator
Dec 2010
16,173
17,752
54,924
Read 11 reviews
It would be interesting if Stiga tried to use light weight soft plastics similar to Arylate and Zylon weaved into the carbon.

They tried using Kevlar many moons ago. But the flaw with Kevlar is that it weighs too much so you ended up with 110 gram Kevlar blades and unless they were marketing only to Der_Echte and me, the weight of those blades ended up being a marketing nightmare.

These Carbonato 45 and 90, sorry, but to me they come off as Carbonato Dimished rather than Enhanced. And they are still carbon blades no matter how you look at it.

But they might play nice. I've mainly heard good things about the first two Carbonato blades.

But, I think Stiga is way behind Butterfly in developing blades that perform as well as Butterfly's ALC and ZLC blades.


Sent from Deep Space by Abacus
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Member
Mar 2016
151
83
406
Loving the advice, Carl, and trust that I'm taking it to heart. I'm playing with a Yasaka Sweden Extra with FX-P and 5Q sound I got second hand from a friend. Both rubbers are 1.8 I believe, or 2.0. I wanted something slower I could get better with, and I read that was a good one to start with. I just didn't know how to change it on my profile (proud techniphobe haha).

I was looking at the acoustic and violin for a while now. My friend just got a virtuoso off- last night believe it or not. I just got back from watching him glue his rubbers on (Mx-P and El-P). I can't wait to have a hit with it :)

Now trust that I'm taking this advice to heart and if you say I'd develop more from playing 05-fx, then that's what I'll go buy. But is there anything else you might recommend as well? I was probably going to buy from tabletennis11 and it's better for me at this stage to get them to glue the bat together than for me to buy the rubbers and blade separately and glue myself.
 
Top