fake blades vs yankee purists

[kukamonga]

so there was a thread in the unnameable forum where I posted...

"the first thing I would say is that fake blades for the most part are clearly identifiable.
this removes most of the arguments purists have and leaves them as "based on xxx blade", same as most xiom, tibhar, donic blades."

------

one admin of the unnameable forum answered

"
You are very wrong about that. There is a difference between clones and fakes.

You buy a blade from Yinhe or Double Day, that is fine.

You by a fake Viscaria that is designed to deceive you are feeding the industry. Not good.

Thread now locked."

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I was thinking this could make a good thread and since we are in international waters now this would be a good place for discussing without people having super powers to do whatever they want.

so back to the original thread, as I was saying, a person who says that probably never bought a fake blade.
I bought 4 fake blades and it's very easy to tell they are not the real thing.
so are the chinese really trying to deceive us?
you'd have to be really dumb to think that you can buy a 350 USD blade for 20 USD and there was some chance it would be real.

if we stay honest and true to common sense, there's no difference between chinese making these 20 USD mizutani and tibhar making the samsonov unlimited cca and selling it for 200 USD (this could be seen as a copy of btfy michael maze).
actually the chinese are probably a smaller factory and have a harder time than tibhar making ends meet.
also the margin they make is much smaller.

so who are we fooling?

 

[passifid]

No. It's because the blade design logo etc are pert of the brand, and as such are inelecutal property. This is important not to the blade buyer but the impression that the blade leaves o others, for a comany like butterfly who quality is the major concern, they should fireclay defend their image,.
This issue is not the same for non lookalike clones because it's not possible for a casual observer to Confuse them.

Also remember a lot of the differences are min or or in print so it's harder to spot with rubbers on. So a bad quality alc yinhe will not impact the reputation of butterfly. But for somone who doesn't maticulously look over the blade and has a bash with what they think is a real butterfly blade the poor quality will be blamed on butterfly possibly and Lower the opinion and therefore value of the company.

The image is a big thing. For example one of the major UK supermarkets tried to save money by importing nestle coffee from nestle Canada, nestle uk bought all 10 shipping containers and processed it for destruction. This was because the regional taste difference may cause people to doubt nestle taste or qc.

 

[kukamonga]

what about the people who are poor but still want to use a mizutani.
you are going to have thousands of broken hearts just so butterfly can make more money?

 

[passifid]

what about the people who are poor but still want to use a mizutani.
you are going to have thousands of broken hearts just so butterfly can make more money?

They're not using a mizutani anyhow. If you don't have money then you can do without unless butterfly okays it

 

[kukamonga]

you are either with the people or with the corporations.
make your choice now!!!!!!!!!!

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Here is the thing, I am comfortable that I will not change your mind or convince you of anything. But the clones where you know the company and the company itself is saying "ZLK SZLC Clone", are in fact different. You can contact the company. You can talk to them when there is something wrong with the product. It does not say a different company's name. It says the name of the company that actually made the product and it announces that it is an imitation.

The counterfeit products are not telling what company produced them. Yes it is easy for someone who knows a small amount about TT equipment to tell. But the brand listed is not the brand that made them.

If you like playing with the counterfeit ones, it doesn't really matter to me. But there definitely are numbskulls out there who simply don't know that those are fake and buy them thinking they are real and wanting them to be real.

One time, several years ago, someone was asking if his blade was a counterfeit. I think it was a DHS blade. Too long ago for me to remember the specifics. He was asking and posting photos hoping someone could tell him if it was real or fake. I asked him how it played and if he liked it. He said it was his favorite blade and was just hoping it was real and not a fake. My recommendation was that he just use it and enjoy it and not worry about if it was real or fake. I figured, why worry when you like the blade. But he still wanted to know.

For you, you are fine with the fact that it is fake. But you still don't know who made your fake blade.

And with a real Butterfly blade, if something happens that has to do with craftsmanship, a quality control issue, or a material defect, you can always contact them and have them exchange it for a new one.

Yes they cost more. But the knock off ones from Yinhe are not so expensive and you would still be able to do that.

Perhaps if something goes wrong with one, like what happened to your Fakey JM SZLC, Ali Express will exchange it or refund you. So you may not need to worry anyway.


Sent from Deep Space by Abacus

 

[NextLevel]

Again, anyone taking kowabunga seriously is better off scratching a kettle with their bare knuckles.

 

[Jabugo]

so there was a thread in the unnameable forum where I posted...

"the first thing I would say is that fake blades for the most part are clearly identifiable.
this removes most of the arguments purists have and leaves them as "based on xxx blade", same as most xiom, tibhar, donic blades."

------

one admin of the unnameable forum answered

"
You are very wrong about that. There is a difference between clones and fakes.

You buy a blade from Yinhe or Double Day, that is fine.

You by a fake Viscaria that is designed to deceive you are feeding the industry. Not good.

Thread now locked."

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I was thinking this could make a good thread and since we are in international waters now this would be a good place for discussing without people having super powers to do whatever they want.

so back to the original thread, as I was saying, a person who says that probably never bought a fake blade.
I bought 4 fake blades and it's very easy to tell they are not the real thing.
so are the chinese really trying to deceive us?
you'd have to be really dumb to think that you can buy a 350 USD blade for 20 USD and there was some chance it would be real.

if we stay honest and true to common sense, there's no difference between chinese making these 20 USD mizutani and tibhar making the samsonov unlimited cca and selling it for 200 USD (this could be seen as a copy of btfy michael maze).
actually the chinese are probably a smaller factory and have a harder time than tibhar making ends meet.
also the margin they make is much smaller.

so who are we fooling?

Fakes are just plain bad no matter how you look at it. You encourage counterfeiters, you fool yourself, and you might even end up unlawfully fooling someone else selling it second hand.

 

[Baal]

Yep I shut down that thread over at MyTT. Now this imbecile's feelings are hurt.

It is obvious that a clone is not attempting to be identical to, say, a Viscaria or a TB-ALC. For example, Doubleday makes an ALC-Winner blade with a handle that has design features that clearly imply that it is intended to be marketed to people who want a TB-ALC. Some say it is made by the same factory. Whether that is true or not, it is obviously NOT a Butterfly ALC. It is marketed as a Doubleday blade. It is not intended to deceive. It does not look identical, even though the design tips it's hat to the original blade. It comes in a different box. It is, however, only $77. Yinhe has made a shameless clone of an OSP blade design, at least in terms of the way they made it look, but it says Yinhe on the blade. This is blade cloning. I personally don't buy those kinds of blades either, but I would never call them counterfeit and I don't have problems with people who do buy them.

But someone makes a blade that is as close to a Viscaria as they can make it, including the misspelled word "perfomance" on the blade face? It says Viscaria on the handle? That is faking, not cloning. And then this stuff gets into the used market (a large portion of which is on MyTT), people buy them without knowing, and the blades play like crap, and it ends up with endless disputes on forums which unpaid TT forum moderators end up having to sort out.

Faking is counterfeiting. We shouldn't support it. It is bad for our sport. It's why we don't allow people to knowingly sell fake blades at MyTT (even if they disclose it), and my understanding is that the rules are the same here (given that moderators at these two forums frequently communicate with each other).

Complaining that the original blade is too expensive is not an excuse and does not provide moral cover for making and selling counterfeit stuff. The motivation is usually greed. It is predatory.

Now since the claim is made that somehow my perspective is that of an American "Yankee" imperialist or something, I should add that counterfeiting of all sorts of products often takes its biggest toll on the citizens of the country where this kind of thing is rampant. For example, in China (a place I frequently visit), people have on many occasions been poisoned as a result of counterfeited additives added to food products such as milk, baby formula, etc. It is part of the same mindset. Nobody will die from a fake blade. But the principle is the same. This is not about "the people" vs "the corporations". Counterfeiters are small time immoral crooks.

And since we are talking about international waters, both of these forums are international waters. The disputes I have had to referee about fake stuff over at MyTT has involved buyers and sellers from places like Indonesia and Romania and Germany as well as North America.

 

[Baal]

Let me add something else. Tamasu Corporation, who makes Butterfly stuff, is not a gigantic corporation along the lines of General Motors or BP or Pfizer. I don't know exactly how many employees they have, but it can't be that large, since the only thing they do is table tennis.

They also funnel some of those profits back to the sport. They sponsor clubs, leagues, players, and coaches all over the world, and they do probably more research and development than any other company. They sponsored Timo Boll from age 10.

So yes, there is a reason their stuff is expensive.

Many of the same things are true of Stiga, Donic, Tibhar, and Joola. None of these are giant corporations! Adidas is big, but they got out of table tennis when they saw how low the profit margins actually are in table tennis. Interesting eh? Make no mistake, people who own ping pong companies are not about to be billionaires.

I can only say that the person who started this thread knows very little about the world in general.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

And there are plenty of $16.00 blades that aren't fake anything made by companies like Yinhe that play perfectly well. If the real issue is affordability, a Galaxy 896 blade with Dawei 2008XP on both sides costs $30.00 total from Colestt.com. Legit products from a company who isn't putting the name of a different brand on its products. You don't have to pay a lot for a decent piece of equipment. If you want a top of the line product, the counterfeit items aren't going to be that anyway.


Sent from Deep Space by Abacus

 

[NextLevel]

Baal, great posts, but I warn you again (I know the posts were for the benefits of others, but in case you were trying to speak to kowabunga):

Again, anyone taking kowabunga seriously is better off scratching a kettle with their bare knuckles.

 

[Baal]

Indeed.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Baal, great posts...

100% agree.

Again, anyone taking kowabunga seriously is better off scratching a kettle with their bare knuckles.

Also 100% agree. But the guy does entertain me. And answering reasons why counterfeits are bad, I am not so sure anyone sane is talking to Sebas. But it does create a topic that is worth analyzing.

I have read some good reasons already why counterfeits are bad news. I know Sebas has given a pseudo reason for liking them (inexpensive). I see some info on why that is not a real reason and how there are lots of inexpensive options from legit companies.

So, in spite of how he is trying to get people riled up, there is something to talk about here.

 

[NextLevel]

100% agree.



Also 100% agree. But the guy does entertain me. And answering reasons why counterfeits are bad, I am not so sure anyone sane is talking to Sebas. But it does create a topic that is worth analyzing.

I have read some good reasons already why counterfeits are bad news. I know Sebas has given a pseudo reason for liking them (inexpensive). I see some info on why that is not a real reason and how there are lots of inexpensive options from legit companies.

So, in spite of how he is trying to get people riled up, there is something to talk about here.

Hmm - kowabunga's post just disappeared...

 

[kukamonga]

you guys have made your choice.
you are with the corporations, with the establishment, with the governments that create war and hunger.
me, I'm with that little kid in china who has nothing to eat.
he trains and watches kukamonga videos, train and kukamonga videos....
he has no money to buy the zjk szlc so he buys a fake one.
he needs shoes but he can't afford the yonex, so he goes and buys the lefusi.
he trains and watches kukamonga videos...
one day he becomes world champion, even with all his difficulties.

he was not born in the kensington gardens in uk.
he was not born in hollywood.
his life was not easy.
but he had passion.
and fake equipment.

 

[passifid]

you guys have made your choice.
you are with the corporations, with the establishment, with the governments that create war and hunger.
me, I'm with that little kid in china who has nothing to eat.
he trains and watches kukamonga videos, train and kukamonga videos....
he has no money to buy the zjk szlc so he buys a fake one.
he needs shoes but he can't afford the yonex, so he goes and buys the lefusi.
he trains and watches kukamonga videos...
one day he becomes world champion, even with all his difficulties.

he was not born in the kensington gardens in uk.
he was not born in hollywood.
his life was not easy.
but he had passion.
and fake equipment.

However unfortunately he also much like his blade, was a fake. a simple experiment made by samsung to replicate the feelings and emotion of a human going through a life of hardship, making the best of each day. However sadly it was too much for EACZ700EFSD21X to handle, maybe he should have been able to tell by his name, maybe then it would be different but no. now it's too late. he unfortunately took a turn for the worse after throwing himself in front of a train
poor EACZ700EFSD21X he is with robogod now

 

[russell]

you guys have made your choice.
you are with the corporations, with the establishment, with the governments that create war and hunger.
me, I'm with that little kid in china who has nothing to eat.
he trains and watches kukamonga videos, train and kukamonga videos....
he has no money to buy the zjk szlc so he buys a fake one.
he needs shoes but he can't afford the yonex, so he goes and buys the lefusi.
he trains and watches kukamonga videos...
one day he becomes world champion, even with all his difficulties.

he was not born in the kensington gardens in uk.
he was not born in hollywood.
his life was not easy.
but he had passion.
and fake equipment.

Does it really matter. I like Kellogg's Cornflakes and Weetabix.
Every supermarket now has its ownbrand equivalent and all are cheaper.
I buy the equivalents and if they taste similar to the originals I use them instead.
If they are miles away from the originals I pay extra for those until I find a cheaper equivalent as good or almost as good.

 

[ttmonster]

pink floyd of table tennis !!! best listened to with a joint ...

you guys have made your choice.
you are with the corporations, with the establishment, with the governments that create war and hunger.
me, I'm with that little kid in china who has nothing to eat.
he trains and watches kukamonga videos, train and kukamonga videos....
he has no money to buy the zjk szlc so he buys a fake one.
he needs shoes but he can't afford the yonex, so he goes and buys the lefusi.
he trains and watches kukamonga videos...
one day he becomes world champion, even with all his difficulties.

he was not born in the kensington gardens in uk.
he was not born in hollywood.
his life was not easy.
but he had passion.
and fake equipment.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Does it really matter. I like Kellogg's Cornflakes and Weetabix.
Every supermarket now has its ownbrand equivalent and all are cheaper.
I buy the equivalents and if they taste similar to the originals I use them instead.
If they are miles away from the originals I pay extra for those until I find a cheaper equivalent as good or almost as good.

Would you go out of your way to buy a box of breakfast cereal that said it was Kellogg's Cornflakes but the packaging was fake and the product was an imitation and not even close to as good and you didn't know what company actually made the product.