Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[NextLevel]

Here is my latest lazy forehand looping video. While my stance is not low and it isn't all out, this is very close to my best looping form and has significant improvements in consistency and power in matches over my old form. There are subtle even if invisible changes in how I use the upper arm, elbow and wrist. I am not going to deviate much from looping like this for a long time.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

So a fast, low trajectory, pretty flat chop is much more difficult to loop than a slower, more curved dropping chop?

Much more difficult.

For me, if I am set properly and have moved to the ball, I love fast pushes. Their momentum lets you dig into them and spin forward for awesome loop-kill shots.

So, if you don't set fast enough, then that is your reset. But if you are set, to me, they feel no harder. In fact they sometimes feel easier.

And if someone can push fast and heavy, and you are set for it, your attack will be totally loaded with pace and a trajectory like it is not loaded. It is very hard to return that loop.


Sent from the Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

Last night's AAR

Concerned with my nagging discomfort/ache in my right deltoid/shoulder - I didn't stay that long at the club

Hit 15 mins with a new member and was a little erratic in my FH... he just slow FH loop, lots of break, after a while i switched to BH blocking and was ok, went back to FH short stroke/blocking and was somewhat ok... at 13 mins or so, he said he had to leave in 2 mins, so i startly looping a little, couldn't get it consistent. Thanked him for his time.

Hit with B next, past few times, I've hit with him for 30 mins to 45 mins and just BH blocking for his FH loops. Last night told him i had to leave at 6pm, so for 25 mins, i just blocked for him... he sometimes FH looped, he sometimes FH smashed. When i noticed it was 5 mins before I called it a night, i asked if i could practice serves and 3rd ball loop. He said ok.

No video ... mindful of short pendulum motion backspin and side downspin serve to various areas ... and also 3rd ball loop at 60% or so, no rambo loops/loop kills. Did not do so well ... got maybe 2 decent 3rd ball loops in ... got some decent serves in though... i don't think i consciously served sidetop, but B popped some off the table. He had to take a call, i practiced a serve, it hit the net dead! i had in mind i was serving backspin... but after seeing it hit net, i served nospin to my surprise... must practice this more.

Thanked B for his time and left.

Need to get vid of me to see if i truly am doing the short pendulum motion serves a la Brett Clarke and NextLevel instead of my muscle memory long pendulum motion.

Have to go view a house tonight with Mrs OSPH... so no TT tonight. Will go tomorrow night, and maybe extend it from ~45 mins to 90 mins or max 2 hrs... perhaps playing ~3hrs 3x a week is too much for this old body to recover

 

[Shuki]

Alrighty.

First NCTTA tournament was Sunday. Won all my matches except one, where I was obliterated by a 2130 NCTTA rated player with no usatt rating. I felt I played terrible the entire time. Fun experience overall though. Other team may have felt I was disrespectful when I played down to their 500 rated players and kept it just as close as the matches with the 1600 players they had.

I can't play with the killer instinct. As a new player I would hate to just get the ball smashed on me over and over for a 9 point average deficit in each game. I'd much rather play the better player while getting into rallies and having fun points. dealing balls of higher quality than I'm used, making my own mistakes. That was my experience as a brand new player at least.

Some players are the opposite though. They want to lose to someone that's going all out so they know how they can hold up against that level. Can't please everyone so I'm glad the players that I was actually against enjoyed how I was playing them.

 

[Suga D]

Alrighty.

First NCTTA tournament was Sunday. Won all my matches except one, where I was obliterated by a 2130 NCTTA rated player with no usatt rating. I felt I played terrible the entire time. Fun experience overall though. Other team may have felt I was disrespectful when I played down to their 500 rated players and kept it just as close as the matches with the 1600 players they had.

I can't play with the killer instinct. As a new player I would hate to just get the ball smashed on me over and over for a 9 point average deficit in each game. I'd much rather play the better player while getting into rallies and having fun points. dealing balls of higher quality than I'm used, making my own mistakes. That was my experience as a brand new player at least.

Some players are the opposite though. They want to lose to someone that's going all out so they know how they can hold up against that level. Can't please everyone so I'm glad the players that I was actually against enjoyed how I was playing them.

First of all, congrats. Well done.

I totally understand this behaviour. Don't wanna sound as if i was boasting, but the league i play in would be rather considered as low, 'cause we just formed a new team this season and had to start from scratch since we almost registered too late. Most players in there just play for the fun of it and some have just started playing not very long time ago. So if i give them a 11:1; 11:0; 11:2 they might have such a bad experience that they might stop playing. Still i can't let them win a game, 'cause the bad side of this is that some might be skylarkin' then and overrate themselves totally. Seen it happen before.
But giving these players a whuppin' doesn't give me anything at all, and i rather love showing my skillz against high-quality shots.
Nice, i don't seem to be the only one doing that.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Yep. I agree with not playing too hard and humiliating someone you can beat easily. I have several friends like Edmund who played me plenty of matches and played in a way so I could develop and be in the points. One guy who played that way with me said it this way: "I just work on a few things I'm not as good at and let you stay in the points."

When higher rated players do that to me, I am always okay with it. And so, when I play someone not as good as me, I do the same.

I also agree with how Suga D said that you can't let them win games though because of how people can then think they are better than they are and even talk about it without knowing what happened.


Sent from the Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

 

[JeffM]

Last night's AAR

Concerned with my nagging discomfort/ache in my right deltoid/shoulder - I didn't stay that long at the club

Hit 15 mins with a new member and was a little erratic in my FH... he just slow FH loop, lots of break, after a while i switched to BH blocking and was ok, went back to FH short stroke/blocking and was somewhat ok... at 13 mins or so, he said he had to leave in 2 mins, so i startly looping a little, couldn't get it consistent. Thanked him for his time.

Hit with B next, past few times, I've hit with him for 30 mins to 45 mins and just BH blocking for his FH loops. Last night told him i had to leave at 6pm, so for 25 mins, i just blocked for him... he sometimes FH looped, he sometimes FH smashed. When i noticed it was 5 mins before I called it a night, i asked if i could practice serves and 3rd ball loop. He said ok.

No video ... mindful of short pendulum motion backspin and side downspin serve to various areas ... and also 3rd ball loop at 60% or so, no rambo loops/loop kills. Did not do so well ... got maybe 2 decent 3rd ball loops in ... got some decent serves in though... i don't think i consciously served sidetop, but B popped some off the table. He had to take a call, i practiced a serve, it hit the net dead! i had in mind i was serving backspin... but after seeing it hit net, i served nospin to my surprise... must practice this more.

Thanked B for his time and left.

Need to get vid of me to see if i truly am doing the short pendulum motion serves a la Brett Clarke and NextLevel instead of my muscle memory long pendulum motion.

Have to go view a house tonight with Mrs OSPH... so no TT tonight. Will go tomorrow night, and maybe extend it from ~45 mins to 90 mins or max 2 hrs... perhaps playing ~3hrs 3x a week is too much for this old body to recover

Hey OSP,
What does AAR stand for?
Do you normally do stretches prior and after matches? Hope your shoulder issue resolves.
Nice to hear you are able to get some serving and 3rd ball practice.

 

[JeffM]

I am not so comfortable with not trying my best in games against lower level players, perhaps I have not encountered enough of these to be experienced. When I try go 'easy' on them, I ended up making half effort in looping, and then it makes me lose the point and it makes me feel bad as well, knowing that I could have got the ball on the table if I just play normally.

To an extent, I still don't play as hard on them in some areas, like I won't do as many serve variation so they have a better chance in returning the ball back, and in smashing, I won't smash 100%.

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

Si-hing,

I am not so comfortable with not trying my best in games against lower level players, perhaps I have not encountered enough of these to be experienced. When I try go 'easy' on them, I ended up making half effort in looping, and then it makes me lose the point and it makes me feel bad as well, knowing that I could have got the ball on the table if I just play normally.

To an extent, I still don't play as hard on them in some areas, like I won't do as many serve variation so they have a better chance in returning the ball back, and in smashing, I won't smash 100%.

I am of 3 minds ... but in full disclosure, i don't play rated tournaments so take this FWIW ...

1) I play my best to force them to improve their game. With that said though, sometimes during practice/warmup, they are not steady leading one to believe they are not skilled, but during game situations, they may be way better. So one shouldn't ever pre-determine the outcome. Just play your best and frame it as you are helping your partner improve

2) I play steady and do not attack 100%, maybe 50% attack power/speed ... move them side to side, to let them see their balls are weak enough for me to control it ... but not to overwhelm them to have an outright winner. Playing steady also forces them to improve their game.

3) a mix of #1 and #2 - play easy at times and play all out other times. Gives partner a sense of the game and what they need to work on.

I'm a softy mostly and end up playing #2.

Good luck to you!

What does AAR stand for?

AAR = After Action Report

Do you normally do stretches prior and after matches? Hope your shoulder issue resolves.

Yes, perhaps not long enough though both before and after.

Nice to hear you are able to get some serving and 3rd ball practice.

Not enough, the last time I really got to work on it was playing a 2000 player, and if i played my regular game i would lose in all likelihood, so i only served down and side down with the exception of 1 serve. He 'dared' me to serve down the line by standing to his extreme BH side. I didn't serve a rocket serve in quite some time and served a medium speed one and his speedy footwork got to it for a winner. Forget now if he rambo looped it or smashed it.

Thank you Si-hing! Looking forward to your 2016 compilation of winners!

Alrighty.

First NCTTA tournament was Sunday. Won all my matches except one,

CONGRATULATIONS Shuki!

 

[JeffM]

Yesterday, I played my 4th and last time for this team. Managed to video the matches.

First singles:

Somewhere in the first match, I must have somehow hurt my index finger, because afterwards I felt pain in my proximal phalange, in the lateral part towads my middle finger. It is currently still hurting really badly if I press on it. Maybe it is a sprain? The pain is deep, so it isn't that the bat's edges are rough :s

Second singles: Despite the pain, I kind of kept playing, didn't realise how bad it was at the time.

I didn't record the doubles, but we won 3-1.

Third singles: against their ace player. I have played him before, and we have both beaten each other before, so I was quite keen to play him first, but somehow he arranged his name so I had to play him last, which was around 10pm.
His style was quite unorthodox, and perhaps I thought too much about how to play against him, and with the pain on my finger, I have played really poorly. Still managed to escape with the win.

Overall, I am happy with the result of 4 wins, but also a bit disappointed in my performance in the last match, as well as confused as to when I actually hurt my finger.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

Yesterday, I played my 4th and last time for this team. Managed to video the matches.

Third singles: against their ace player. I have played him before, and we have both beaten each other before, so I was quite keen to play him first, but somehow he arranged his name so I had to play him last, which was around 10pm.
His style was quite unorthodox, and perhaps I thought too much about how to play against him, and with the pain on my finger, I have played really poorly. Still managed to escape with the win.

Overall, I am happy with the result of 4 wins, but also a bit disappointed in my performance in the last match, as well as confused as to when I actually hurt my finger.

Hi Jeff I just look a bit of your 3rd Singles video
I think it was well deserved and I thought you were much better than him. You were in difficulty only because you were missing easy shots sometimes, it looked more like you were not focused.

I think your FH drive is good, and you play with the right mindset: most of the times, a first spinny attack on the table with a high percentage, to play a 2nd or 3rd attack..In those attacks you don't flat hit the ball but keep spinning it well, which makes it very safe, until the other guy misses or you have an easy kill. I'm striving myself to do that more, I used to flat hit often but the percentage is less, especially if you have bad footwork. And i don't move as fast as i used to, so it's not the right way to play for me anymore.

I liked also your YG serve. I don't like penholders, and YG or BH-like serves are the most difficult to return because its so easy to change the spin of the ball with a last second wrist move which is not easy to read. Maybe you should do them more often.

The main problem that i saw on your side was your footwork where I felt you were sometimes lazy. When you step around you should step around much more, else you are too close to the ball and its difficult to get power and a clean shot. You had some problem with pushes sometimes with the ball popping high. I think you don't always read the (no)spin on the ball, and you push the ball too late, you should take it right after the bounce.

you played the RPB but i didn't see you block often with the traditional PB which is a powerful weapon for penholders..because its so easy to change the direction of the ball at the last minute; a block or push down the line from penholder is always very difficult

congrats for your wins

 

[JeffM]

Hi Jeff I just look a bit of your 3rd Singles video
I think it was well deserved and I thought you were much better than him. You were in difficulty only because you were missing easy shots sometimes, it looked more like you were not focused.

I think your FH drive is good, and you play with the right mindset: most of the times, a first spinny attack on the table with a high percentage, to play a 2nd or 3rd attack..In those attacks you don't flat hit the ball but keep spinning it well, which makes it very safe, until the other guy misses or you have an easy kill. I'm striving myself to do that more, I used to flat hit often but the percentage is less, especially if you have bad footwork. And i don't move as fast as i used to, so it's not the right way to play for me anymore.

I liked also your YG serve. I don't like penholders, and YG or BH-like serves are the most difficult to return because its so easy to change the spin of the ball with a last second wrist move which is not easy to read. Maybe you should do them more often.

The main problem that i saw on your side was your footwork where I felt you were sometimes lazy. When you step around you should step around much more, else you are too close to the ball and its difficult to get power and a clean shot. You had some problem with pushes sometimes with the ball popping high. I think you don't always read the (no)spin on the ball, and you push the ball too late, you should take it right after the bounce.

you played the RPB but i didn't see you block often with the traditional PB which is a powerful weapon for penholders..because its so easy to change the direction of the ball at the last minute; a block or push down the line from penholder is always very difficult

congrats for your wins

Thanks Takkyu_wa_inochi ! I agree with your points. I was lazy with my footwork and should have stepped around more. Yeah, reading the serves properly is still a big problem for me.
I have stayed away from the traditional block as I moved to RPB, and have not practiced that for a very long time. Part of the reason was that previously, I will have times where I had to think which to use when the ball isn't too fast to me, and that did not go well for me.

 

[Boogar]

I am not so comfortable with not trying my best in games against lower level players, perhaps I have not encountered enough of these to be experienced. When I try go 'easy' on them, I ended up making half effort in looping, and then it makes me lose the point and it makes me feel bad as well, knowing that I could have got the ball on the table if I just play normally.

To an extent, I still don't play as hard on them in some areas, like I won't do as many serve variation so they have a better chance in returning the ball back, and in smashing, I won't smash 100%.

I feel the same. However it depends on how big the difference in skill is.If the difference is big i will do that as well, but if i go too easy i can't play a normal game and its not fun anymore. Then i end up hating how i play.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

Thanks Takkyu_wa_inochi ! I agree with your points. I was lazy with my footwork and should have stepped around more. Yeah, reading the serves properly is still a big problem for me.
I have stayed away from the traditional block as I moved to RPB, and have not practiced that for a very long time. Part of the reason was that previously, I will have times where I had to think which to use when the ball isn't too fast to me, and that did not go well for me.

I'm not a penholder but i did hear the same from other players, when you know the 2 techniques, then it can become confusing which one to choose when things are fast... but in the long run, if you master both, you'll become an excellent player. If you play only RPB then from your opponent point of view, its much more like a normal shakehand player its less tricky to play.

I play quite a lot of penholders here in Japan so thats my 2 cents feeling.

 

[NextLevel]

I'm not a penholder but i did hear the same from other players, when you know the 2 techniques, then it can become confusing which one to choose when things are fast... but in the long run, if you master both, you'll become an excellent player. If you play only RPB then from your opponent point of view, its much more like a normal shakehand player its less tricky to play.

I play quite a lot of penholders here in Japan so thats my 2 cents feeling.

Tricks aren't everything. The top penholders today dominate with one or the other, usually RPB. But JEff's explanation is the key. I don't know any player who does both who I fear for that reason.

 

[Shuki]

Yep. I agree with not playing too hard and humiliating someone you can beat easily. I have several friends like Edmund who played me plenty of matches and played in a way so I could develop and be in the points. One guy who played that way with me said it this way: "I just work on a few things I'm not as good at and let you stay in the points."

When higher rated players do that to me, I am always okay with it. And so, when I play someone not as good as me, I do the same.

I also agree with how Suga D said that you can't let them win games though because of how people can then think they are better than they are and even talk about it without knowing what happened.


Sent from the Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

I don't have a problem with lower level players thinking they're as good as me. If they start bragging, other players at the club know my level and don't believe them anyway. That being said, I understand how easy it is for them to think they're better than they are because of how they may play well against someone good.

Heck when I hit with you, I felt we were pretty darn close in skill level. But hindsight, looking back now, I can see that it was just hitting around, and the control you had was superior to mine. Given we had a match even with your only having one eye up to par, I'm 99% sure you would have slaughtered me. But back then, I would have thought I could take you. Hell. that was less than a year ago. You'd still be able to beat me, but I feel like I would at least be able to judge the skill differences a lot better now.

 

[Shuki]

Made a long-pip on one side paddle for fun. I've used quite a few other people's paddles that have the stuff on them and I think they're a blast to play with. Tournament this saturday-sunday and I'm contemplating using the long pip junk. Looping is super easy with the inverted rubber on the long pip paddle as it's so much lighter than before, I go through the ball much quicker, making spinning it SUPER EASY. I'm definitely worse with the setup for obvious reasons. but we also aren't pros and we play for fun right?

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

First singles:

First game - some nice loops! Uncharacteristically your RPB failed Not sure when you middle finger got hurt, didn't see you reacting to pain/discomfort or which point it could've occurred. Speedy and healthy recovery!

Second singles:

2nd game - some nice attacks!! Early on the return of your RPB!!

4:29-4:32 - nice 2nd ball return! Different "look" ... almost psyched your opponent out.
8:42-8:45 - 3rd game, nice RPB block or punch! You keep doing that, you don't need the traditional PH block/punch.

Third singles: against their ace player. I have played him before, and we have both beaten each other before, so I was quite keen to play him first, but somehow he arranged his name so I had to play him last, which was around 10pm.
His style was quite unorthodox, and perhaps I thought too much about how to play against him, and with the pain on my finger, I have played really poorly. Still managed to escape with the win.

Ah, he was the umpire in your 2nd singles... perhaps he wanted to watch you play and get intel.

First game, many unforced errors... your middle finger must've hurt very bad.
6:35-6:41 / 9:26-9:33 - EXCELLENT!

Said it once, will say again, inspiring for me to watch your games! You show me what i need to work on, namely serve easy serve to nice, easy and smooth 3rd ball loop - throughout your matches, but here's one where I can hear NextLevel and Der go, "aaaaah!!!!" 9:20-9:25) to get to your level.

THANK YOU!

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

I liked also your YG serve. I don't like penholders, and YG or BH-like serves are the most difficult to return because its so easy to change the spin of the ball with a last second wrist move which is not easy to read. Maybe you should do them more often.

Sir, what is 'YG' ... i've been away from the game for 30+yrs and not up on the current terminology.

Domo arigato gozaimashita Sir.

Made a long-pip on one side paddle for fun. I've used quite a few other people's paddles that have the stuff on them and I think they're a blast to play with. ... Tournament this saturday-sunday and I'm contemplating using the long pip junk. ... but we also aren't pros and we play for fun right?

In that spirit i say go for it only because you mentioned it. But generally i would say don't do it until you get halfway decent with the new setup

More power to you Bro! Have fun and junk them up!!

 

[NextLevel]

League was tough yesterday - lost to the 10 and under US girls champ in 5 in my first match. Went up 2-0 but the serves stopped working and she consistently served fast deep serves to my middle (I have to work on that as I serve them to the corners).

Then I lost to Big M as I shall call him from now on. Had two ridiculous points, some ridiculous shots, and lots of silly misses, including serves. I am going to start doing some target practice with my serves. I have to stop messing around and produce high level serves with pin point precision on demand. Best offensive match I have played against him in a while and it gives me hope.

Then I lost to a girl with medium pips who was rusty three weeks ago but has obviously been training. She wasn't missing that backhand and she wasn't pushing my popups either, mostly hitting them for outright winners. I realized that this was very similar to the serve that DeWitt used against me so I am going to work out something for it tonight.

Then I beat a guy with short pips on his backhand - he was ill last week and hadn't played in a while and since he has turned aggressive, I tend to beat him when he is playing his touch game and he tends to beat me when he is aggressive and using that to set up his touch game. And of course, since he was out for a week, he was playing his touch game so I pulled that one out since he missed too many attacks.

And then I played the guy I spoke about with short pips on his forehand who I remembered from college. This time, he came at me with a variety of serves and attacks. I felt pressure from him for the first time in a while. But my backhand down the line arose out of the ashes like a Phoenix and burnt all signs of resistance in the end.

I will take the things I need to work on (returning short sidespin serves, counterlooping with the forehand and rallying faster at the table with the backhand) into today's practice.

As always, all matches are on youtube (except the young girl as kids are not always cool with being online).