Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[marauDEr]

Hey everyone,

Sorry for being a bit absent lately, been terribly busy with work and other.
Ok so, i started practicing again in a TT club here in London, attending "classes" with others (various skill levels) and there's lotsa to say about what is "happening" hoping you guys can point me in the right direction with hints and tips:

- First of all, the hand is sweating A LOT and i feel i have a grip for when i hit with BH and another grip when i'm with FH. It's like i can't keep the same. A couple of times it was also slipping away. Wouldn't be the case to add some "towel" on the handle, in order to also make it bigger? Because i really feel it "small" and i can't brush proper;
- Playing against others: when we the instructor starts pairing people to play against each other i more or less, always end up in the "shame area" Being honest, it's mostly because of my errors answering in the right way the opponent's service: the rubbers i've put are faster than what i was used to (Sriver and Tackiness Drive) and i'm adapting but i hit the net very often. I do accept being beaten by 14 yrs old guys that are members of such club but hey, i should be able to give a decent fight

I'm considering to have few private training sessions, mostly to correct the grip and "learn again". I hate not being able to send it back and battle on each point the way i love!

As usual: any tips from this wonderful community are welcome

 

[Archosaurus]

OSPH, it's a joke.

To me it's evident your technique has improved, but you claim you haven't improved at all. People tell me I have noticeably improved, but I can't feel it, so I'm not too sure how true the claims of improvement are.

You see, we are always in the process. We are, hopefully, aware of every shot we take. The other people here can't see all of those unless you specifically livestream every second of your sessions. Not to mention everything else that goes into improvement.

To them, it's a more sudden improvement, while to us it's gradual. Like how you don't notice if your hair has grown 1mm, but you notice if it has grown 10cm.

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

OSPH, it's a joke.

To me it's evident your technique has improved, but you claim you haven't improved at all. People tell me I have noticeably improved, but I can't feel it, so I'm not too sure how true the claims of improvement are.

*fist bumps*

 

[Der_Echte]

Archos,

You crowded the table too close, but your stance looked 10000 percent better, you even did a two step a couple times, your step around is awkward, but you got bat on ball. Carl discussed your push already.

Since no one is willing to pop the huge bubble gum bubble that is your FH, I will be the meanie who does that.

You transfer only a fraction of energy to the ball. You might start with legs and waist, but you are trying to lock your arm bent like a twisted branch and use your hitting shoulder to make the power. This kills any acceleration and makes it damn next to impossible to explode into the ball.

If you were trying to hit a girl your age with that kind of hit, she would laugh then click on you upside your head to show you how to transfer 4x the power you are making.

Keep your arm relaxed, don't death grip the bat. Don't bend the arm 90 degrees or more, open it 10 or more degrees so you have a little lower arm movement possible before impact. Start legs then hips then shoulder turn while arm is loose and not yet moving. Let the arm whip through.

You are trying to engage shoulder and upper arm way too soon and your arm is stiffer than that of Frankenstein. You don't need upper arm snap, it doesn't help whip. Lower arm and wrist are the last moving pieces exploding into the ball... THEN you can move your whole arm together in follow through.

Don't sweat too much, next to no one gets this right as a recreational player. It took me a good long while to develop any kind of efficient whip on fh.

Quit tensing up and stop trying to use upper body to generate power... it won't work. Der_Echte has macho man muscle mass behind his shoulders and there is no way he can make good power transfer trying to use all upper body too soon out of time.

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk

 

[Der_Echte]

Having said all that take it in this perspective. Any decent high level amature player will tell you I have serves that are very much way higher level effective than my level, both short ones and not.

If you took a video of my first session trying to serve short, you would have issued a public safety warning and evacuated the building. I was that bad and balls flying off the edge of my bat went every direction errant. You would lose ur eyesight if you were a bystander u less you were wearing a full welders eye protection.

I was like that for two months straight. Even you would have declared Der_Echte unfit for TT serving and would have advised me to take up playing bingo or something less harmless.

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk

 

[Archosaurus]

@Der_Echte

Should my arm feel completely limp and relaxed during the swing? Like I'm swinging from my abs and not my shoulder?

I think I can do what you're talking about in shadows and self hitting, but it all goes out the window with live ammo on live targets. I will try, though. Maybe if I'm not so cramped up, I could swing with less tension. I can feel my upper body is a bit tense. Well, not even a bit. A lot.

Thanks a lot for your analysis. Your comments on serving short is one of the rare things to make me audibly laugh my ass off this month.

 

[Der_Echte]

It was so bad that was just the tip of the iceberg. Words describe 1/10 of how bad a klutz I was with timing and motion.

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[Der_Echte]

Search for and read Larry Hodges Easy Power.

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[Boogar]

@Der_Echte

Should my arm feel completely limp and relaxed during the swing? Like I'm swinging from my abs and not my shoulder?

I think I can do what you're talking about in shadows and self hitting, but it all goes out the window with live ammo on live targets. I will try, though. Maybe if I'm not so cramped up, I could swing with less tension. I can feel my upper body is a bit tense. Well, not even a bit. A lot.

Thanks a lot for your analysis. Your comments on serving short is one of the rare things to make me audibly laugh my ass off this month.

What's helping me in the last days with relaxation of the FH stroke is to wait for the ball and not to rush the stroke as NL is saying all the time. It also gives you more time and is less stressful and the most important one its so much fun to wait for a ball to just whip trough it, at least as much as i am capable of whipping (not so much, but i think i am on the right track)

 

[Archosaurus]

Hah, I can believe you.

I'm usually not absolutely terrible in serving short backspin unless it's actually very spinny and low. A little worse quality short backspin is good enough for me currently and it's more consistent than not consistent. I still want to strive for more, of course.

However today any semblance of spin on a short serve was just rocketed off the edge into various directions. Eventually I got tired of walking up to pick them up from wherever they got hit into. I even hit the edge on some brushing exercises I did. I just gave up.

Tomorrow I will try again.

@Boogar

I can only "real" loop balls that are pretty late.

Maybe I should start taking balls late.

 

[NextLevel]

I think the haircut was the best part of the videos. The actual strokes... let's just say that while it's clear you put in a lot of work, there is a lot of stuff to work on and it is necessary to record yourself and get more frequent feedback so that things don't go offtrack.

 

[Archosaurus]

NL, hah.

You'd think I'd be disappointed or something at how bad I am, contrasted to what I've been saying, but actually, it's a good feeling knowing there is so much more potential for improvement. If the game is fun now and I'm tensing up like a mofo, I can't imagine how it is when I'm doing things properly.

These guys will probably keep playing with me for some time, and I think I can teach them how to at least push my short serve back so there's a lot of potential for future analysis.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

The thing about this sport is that even with technical improvement, you might still not win matches. My rating was 2062 in January 2015. It is 1970 or so in November 2016. Just about everyone who watches me then and watches me now will call my technique better on every shot. Yet my rating has me skating uphill on ice.

i feel exactly the same, though there is no rating here. TBH i think my physical condition is going down. I don't realize it on a day to day basis, but i move less quick than b4 for sure.

 

[Der_Echte]

@Der_Echte

Should my arm feel completely limp and relaxed during the swing? Like I'm swinging from my abs and not my shoulder?

I think I can do what you're talking about in shadows and self hitting, but it all goes out the window with live ammo on live targets. I will try, though. Maybe if I'm not so cramped up, I could swing with less tension. I can feel my upper body is a bit tense. Well, not even a bit. A lot.

Thanks a lot for your analysis. Your comments on serving short is one of the rare things to make me audibly laugh my ass off this month.

Loose, but you shouldn't be thinking about it.

Carl would be blowing out Orange Juice out both his nostrils and his red ears reading how epically i sucked learning serves when he knows my good serve level personally.

 

[Shuki]

okay. keeping the arm loose is easy for people who already have the muscles working right. but when you're working on fixing form, you will not be able to keep it loose since your muscles need to tense differently to work the mechanics of the stroke differently. as it becomes natural becoming loose gets easier and you really don't have to think about it.

 

[maurice101]

Ttedge has a new video posted on the forehand rotation starting before the arm is moving forward that could prove of interest. Similar to the tennis forehand stroke although in tennis there is a larger delay. I think to do this in the forehand table tennis stroke you need to be relaxed.

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

Morning TTD CCers! Rainy day here in NYC

Didn't catch up on previous posts... will do after this post. May be some interesting CC.

Last night I played horribly. Tried to integrate what I've been focusing on into my regular game instead of exclusively working on it.

Didn't feel energetic... not sure why... did eat and hydrate but felt a little woozy/light-headed. Had 1 break after i lost a match. Then my turn after 2 other matches finished on the table, i played and lost and then immediately played another. Knew i was not 100%, but thinking with logic, knowing i ate/drank, I played on instead of taking a longer break. UGH on me.

1 & 2) Played "T." a steady player who just returns the balls, with a sometimes attack. Have never beaten him. Not taking away from his skill, but generally i'm inconsistent and i lose the points and it's not him winning the points.

Don't recall the 1st match, either lost 3-0 or 3-1. Recalled I played ok the first game of the first match because my back was to the white wall. I have a slightly hard time picking up the ball visually against the white wall. Factor in T. wearing a off-white wife beater and well the rest of the matches it's in my head I'm blind and I lost.

I was being too precise with my punches down the line and kept missing the table. Perhaps due to light-headedness or whatever, I didn't adjust and just aim to punch to the middle

2 other players also lost to T. Lost to T. in our 2nd match 3 straight. In the past, I've had closer games despite losing the match to T. Light-headedness, white wall/ball/wife beater... the supermoon... whatever, i played horribly.

Have videos of my 2 matches vs. T. Didn't have time to edit. May edit just for highlights.

3) Played "B2" next. T. was king of the table but he took a break. No one else was waiting so despite just finishing a match, i played B2 without a short break.

Played B2 1x before. A new member, his game is very similar to my game... one-sided CPen. He has LP OX on his backside and uses it as an emergency return on fast shots to his BH and sometimes uses it as a crutch to return serves. We are close in skill level IMO. He uses his LP OX, and I don't (yet).

Last time I played B2, I recalled JeffM talking about the transition point or whatever it's called (between BH and FH) and I served there to B2 and eked out a win. Also I had better rocket serves that time which I served to his BH noting his use of the LP OX as a crutch.

Despite playing horribly and feeling spacey, I eked out a win vs B2 (-9,-7,3,9,8). Didn't recall my tactics vs him from last time until a little later.

Below is the video. Instead of editing for highlights, I edited the full match to show others I am still inconsistent. Missed easy shots, made easy shots. It is what it is. Proof of why I ask you all for 9 points I see the same aspects I need to still work on (pushing, looping, serves, consistency, footwork) ... comments as always welcomed (even if it is to tell you me you can kick my butt and I am the worst player you have seen

Video is the full match - edited to 4 mins 36 seconds. For those that don't have the time to watch the whole vid, here are some highlights:

Game 1 = 0:00 - 1:03

* Loops (if you can call them that) 0:00-0:03, 0:04-0:06 (missed loop LOL), 0:07-0:10, 0:11-0:14, 0:36-0:42

* Smashes - 0:33-0:35 (missed smash LOL), 0:47-0:51, 1:01-1:03 (missed smash)

Game 2 = 1:04 - 1:51

Game 3 = 1:52 - 2:35

* Slow loop to smash - ~2:03 - 2:06 (side note: saw the guy, didn't think he was that close, then focused on game and then i 'didn't see him' - tunnel vision)

* Smash - 2:18-2:21 (almost Der_Echte-slam-table-and-flex-bicep-worthy)

* Loop - 2:27-2:30

Game 4 2:36 - 3:32

* Rocket serve to smash (IIRC, not my regular rocket serve motion - bit weak and slower than my regular rocket serve) 2:36 - 2:39, 3:13 - 3:15, 3:28 - 3:31

* Hulk Smash 2:39 - 2:42, 3:01 - 3:05

Game 5 - 3:33 - 4:36

* Smash 4:07-4:10

* Monster Smash 4:10 - 4:16 (again, saw the guy walk by, then tunnel vision, didn't see him) - this smash was felt like a Der_Echte-slam-table-and-flex-bicep-worthy LOL

---------------------------------------------------------------------

@Carl ... i see my wacky left arm when looping (~1:29-1:33)

@Der ... feeling bit spacey, i didn't go for the controlled spinny loop too many times if at all

@NextLevel ... I believed I mixed in the short pendulum motion serves with my regular long motion pendulum serves ... I don't believe I did the short whippy 8/reverse S/checkmark serve though ... and to your point of smashers in general not always winning the points... plenty of it from me in this match LOL

Feel I let you all down, will continue to work to improve ... i know it will be slow and arduous and factor in I'm a slow learner and have to unlearn some muscle memory ... not expecting an overnight improvement LOL ... off night last night despite hydrating and eating still felt woozy

 

[JeffM]

Hi OSP,

Thanks for editing the video so it becomes a short form of a full match. I saw many great shots, and I particularly liked your loops, as I don't recall seeing alot of them in your previous videos (or perhaps I have missed your recent ones). I like how there is more variation of attacks, including smashes, fast loops and slower loops.

With regard to inconsistencies, I see what you meant, but I haven't really been able to compare with what you were like before, so I cant comment too much. But I think if you keep working on it, keep trying to loop the balls and attack them with different ways, they will improve over time.


A little note: You won't be seeing any video of me for at least another 2 weeks due to exam, and also to rest my finger which I have not yet figured out what is wrong with it lol.

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

Hi OSP,

Thanks for editing the video so it becomes a short form of a full match. I saw many great shots, and I particularly liked your loops, as I don't recall seeing alot of them in your previous videos (or perhaps I have missed your recent ones). I like how there is more variation of attacks, including smashes, fast loops and slower loops.

Thank you for your kind words JeffM! My "loops" are all improper technique/form. It's all arm, no legs/core/whipping ... and my 'loops' are not as relaxed and effortless-looking as your stroke!! Strange though, when i shadow loop, i seem to be doing it more properly, but duriing match play, strokes fall apart.

With regard to inconsistencies, I see what you meant, but I haven't really been able to compare with what you were like before, so I cant comment too much. But I think if you keep working on it, keep trying to loop the balls and attack them with different ways, they will improve over time.

I am maybe 40/60 or 50/50 with my inconsistencies now ... if they were hard balls to return, i won't feel so bad, but the balls i miss were easy enough. I make 4 to 5 out of 10 Ages ago, i was maybe 70/30 or 80/20 on those same easy balls, meaning, i made a lot of them ... the one shot that was a huge part of my game is the punch down the line ... those hurt me the most. I would think I've got most of my game back IF AND ONLY IF i don't miss too much of those balls.

As always, thank you for your encouragement and feedback!

A little note: You won't be seeing any video of me for at least another 2 weeks due to exam, and also to rest my finger which I have not yet figured out what is wrong with it lol.

Always take care of REAL LIFE first, don't worry about TT or TTD!! Good luck on your exams and speedy/healthy recovery on your finger!!

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

Keep your arm relaxed, don't death grip the bat. Don't bend the arm 90 degrees or more, open it 10 or more degrees so you have a little lower arm movement possible before impact. Start legs then hips then shoulder turn while arm is loose and not yet moving. Let the arm whip through.

You are trying to engage shoulder and upper arm way too soon and your arm is stiffer than that of Frankenstein. You don't need upper arm snap, it doesn't help whip. Lower arm and wrist are the last moving pieces exploding into the ball... THEN you can move your whole arm together in follow through.

Thank you Der for the timely reminder! Stupid old man memory.