Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[NextLevel]

suds79,

A lot of your short pips technique looks like it is modified inverted technique and not technique actually based a close study of short pips penholders. You don't seem to commit to either smashing or spinning and even the smashes are not sharp. Maybe you could watch your favorite HZW play a chopper and look at how he performs both strokes to get an idea of what is required?

 

[suds79]

Is the guy in blue new to your club? I think I know him, just moved from kansas I believe.

Wow you're close. Probably is. We live in Nebraska.

I would say he's been coming to club routinely for about the last couple of months for so. Somewhere around there. Where are you from by the way?.. So I know where Dong is from.

@oldscholpenholder
Thanks. I really really enjoy how twiddling makes it into an even more tactical game. Example: It might not show up as much on video but i was having success with backspin serve, he pushes, twiddle and LP swipe that to the open court. Such a fun point to play.

@nextlevel
You're definitely right. i started playing inverted initially but eventually switched to SP as they give better control & placement for me. I will continue to watch HZW and try to pick up more of what he does. If I remember right, vs choppers he soft loops and spins it up over & over then smashes the high ball when it comes. I'll have to watch his technique closely when he does that.

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

Shuki/NextLevel/Der_Echte/Takkyu_wa_inochi/suds79,

WOW! Action-packed weekend for you all!!

"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat."

~Theodore Roosevelt

I am one of those Roosevelt calls "cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat" - i live vicariously through you all... THANK YOU!
~osph

 

[NextLevel]

@nextlevel
You're definitely right. i started playing inverted initially but eventually switched to SP as they give better control & placement for me. I will continue to watch HZW and try to pick up more of what he does. If I remember right, vs choppers he soft loops and spins it up over & over then smashes the high ball when it comes. I'll have to watch his technique closely when he does that.

You could also watch any short pips penholder obviously but he is just one that comes to mind. There is a huge emphasis for how the wrist starts and a massive acceleration towards the ball and through it. It's easier for them to kill backspin. They can smash topspin too, but since short pips cannot inverted heavy levels of spin, a point comes where if you don't have line of sight or your opponent is spinning heavily enough, you have to use the long pips to chop block to get the ball you want. That's he way most high level players I know with your setup play. They use the short pips to serve and attack, but when the spin gets to a level that they can't control, they introduce the long pips to get a push to attack again.

The serves are long and a bit high because you need more practice contacting the ball low and generating spin on the ball. While you won't often serve backspin, start with that serve.

You use a nice circular whip but you need to activate the wrist a little more while using it. This will give you the basic idea. I might do a penhold version to show you how I think of it.

Penhold has a different plan of motion for the paddle relative to the wrist but the whip motion is the same - just less obvious because it is easier to hide with a penhold grip. You should feel as if you are writing a backward letter "S" or the number "8".

 

[Shuki]

Wow you're close. Probably is. We live in Nebraska.

I would say he's been coming to club routinely for about the last couple of months for so. Somewhere around there. Where are you from by the way?.. So I know where Dong is from.

haha, just got confirmation that he moved to Lincoln. I'm in the lawrence/ overland park kansas area. I was up in lincoln with my school team 8 days ago ^.^

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

haha, just got confirmation that he moved to Lincoln. I'm in the lawrence/ overland park kansas area. I was up in lincoln with my school team 8 days ago ^.^

Table tennis ... small world

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

I'm in a 3 players mini league against 2 penholders that i've never played b4. I'm usually not at ease against penholders.

Sir,

Just curious, what of PH makes you not at ease?

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

I got to train with PPH for an hour today. Good stuff. Worked on strengthening my BH opening. It went well. I can see an improvement in my consistency.

9 points please

 

[suds79]

Friday, friend recorded me doing shadow strokes for a project so I'll link that to this post for anyone who likes to see shadow strokes.

Today: day 1 of tournament. Lost to a 2250 player named Winfred Addy in the open. in the U1900 I lost to my training partner, yes again, seems like every tournament I end up against him in an event and lose... So I ended up at 3rd place for 1900. No good wins. All matches other than training partner and the 2250 were pretty easy.

I abandoned the long pips for tournament. I didn't have the balls.

So this funny because yeah, it is a small world. Now that I know where you're from, you must have been talking about the 2-star tournament in KC.

We had two club members from the LTTA there. Colin Henslee, who said he didn't play that great, and Daniel Stepanyuk, an 11 year old boy who is probably the best player in the state of Nebraska. His best win I believe came in June where he beat Parviz Mojaverian. You might know who he is.

Colin beats me for sure and if i can get a game off of Daniel, I must be playing pretty great.

Video of Daniel.

 

[Archosaurus]

@UpSideDownCarl
@NextLevel
@OldSchoolPenholder
@Shuki

Here is some video. I think the angle should have been more closer to the table but I will correct it next time.

I cut some parts where either the cameraman pointed at my opponent or he was talking for 20 seconds, because I don't want to subject anyone to that.

Otherwise, uncut and raw 3 games.

I analyzed the videos and I can see a lot of stuff that I need to work on, but feel free to tell me everything and anything that comes to mind. I'm mostly curious as to how I could fix my super stiff forehand form. The hops in the footwork are exaggerated on purpose so I don't forget to do them and that I move enough. I think over time it will get more natural. I have a tendency to not move enough and get cramped up, as is evident in my forehand. I'm serving mostly light topspin to him so I can get some rallies going.

Anyway, here they are.

 

[Shuki]

So this funny because yeah, it is a small world. Now that I know where you're from, you must have been talking about the 2-star tournament in KC.

We had two club members from the LTTA there. Colin Henslee, who said he didn't play that great, and Daniel Stepanyuk, an 11 year old boy who is probably the best player in the state of Nebraska. His best win I believe came in June where he beat Parviz Mojaverian. You might know who he is.

Colin beats me for sure and if i can get a game off of Daniel, I must be playing pretty great.

Yea, daniel played well, won the U2000 with no problems. Colin lost to my training partner in quarters in U2000. Then my training partner got steam rolled by daniel.

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

@UpSideDownCarl
@NextLevel
@OldSchoolPenholder
@Shuki

Here is some video. I think the angle should have been more closer to the table but I will correct it next time.

Archo,

I don't feel qualified to give specific pointers to your SH game given I'm PH... plus the others you addressed are 1900+ and SH, so you will get better feedback from them.

With that said, props and respect for posting vid of yourself!

 

[suds79]

@Archosaurus

That first video makes me think you must have watched a lot of Timo Boll growing up. Got that massively elbow bent technique. Very euro.

I'm not the person to give any pointers there. if anything my stroke is more arm extended.

Keep the content coming. +1

 

[Archosaurus]

@suds79

That's hilarious to me because I used to be a huge "Chinese forehand" fan and I wanted to loop like Ma Long.


Lately, I've REALLY been into the technique of Kong Linghui, Waldner and Timo Boll. I noticed that my forehand was getting more and more Timo Boll like, and I just accepted it.

 

[Shuki]

So this funny because yeah, it is a small world. Now that I know where you're from, you must have been talking about the 2-star tournament in KC.

We had two club members from the LTTA there. Colin Henslee, who said he didn't play that great, and Daniel Stepanyuk, an 11 year old boy who is probably the best player in the state of Nebraska. His best win I believe came in June where he beat Parviz Mojaverian. You might know who he is.

Colin beats me for sure and if i can get a game off of Daniel, I must be playing pretty great.

Video of Daniel.

Yea, daniel played well, won the U2000 with no problems. Colin lost to my training partner in quarters in U2000. Then my training partner got steam rolled by daniel.

In the U2000 Daniel was also in my group, he was the only player in my group that I played with my inverted rubber (since he was the favorite to win the u2000 I had to give it my all). I'm curious who he thinks is better between me and my training partner. If you get the chance you should ask him who he thought was better between cameron and drew. =]

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

FYI
I'm playing short pips on the black side & long pips on the red.

Thanks.

~4:43 - 4:50 - 8 ball rally you lost ... please don't take this the wrong way, i'm guilty of this myself ... 4th ball or 8th ball - probably should've tried to attack ... your 2nd ball LP return set you up for the 4th ball which you pushed back... your 6th ball LP return was popped up to your BH, but may have caught you flat-footed, you twiddled to your smooth side and netted it ... sometimes i get too passive and can't pull the trigger and end up pushing, looking for angle and then pivot and use my FH ... generally i try not to push past 5th ball, maybe 6th ball... but that backfires on me as i rush my attack and still have challenges in relaxing in my attacks.

~6:39 - 6:44 - you lost the point on this, but this i liked, you attacked... perhaps because it was a high return to your FH that your brain registered to attack and the signal moved your body.

~7:41-7:45 - serving wide into his FH, he returns to your BH, have you tried just punching it down the line to his BH? apologies if you tried in the match... watching at work during lulls in workflow, don't think i've seen you tried this. On some older post or other thread, IIRC you mentioned you sometimes punched.

~7:47-7:51 - LP swipe FTW!
~7:58-8:02 - inverted FH block FTW!

~11:09-11:25 - LP FTW!!

I think as you noted, you may have relied on your twiddling/LP a tad too much... there were a few "gimme's" you probably should've won.

I will be following your progress... it's a style i may try at some point. Thank you suds79 and good luck in your LP Adventure!

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

You should feel as if you are writing a backward letter "S" or the number "8".

I'm still working on this ... when you were here in NYC, you mentioned the 'check' to me, the checkmark more than anything resonated with me.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

@UpSideDownCarl
@NextLevel
@OldSchoolPenholder
@Shuki

Here is some video. I think the angle should have been more closer to the table but I will correct it next time.

I cut some parts where either the cameraman pointed at my opponent or he was talking for 20 seconds, because I don't want to subject anyone to that.

Otherwise, uncut and raw 3 games.

I analyzed the videos and I can see a lot of stuff that I need to work on, but feel free to tell me everything and anything that comes to mind. I'm mostly curious as to how I could fix my super stiff forehand form. The hops in the footwork are exaggerated on purpose so I don't forget to do them and that I move enough. I think over time it will get more natural. I have a tendency to not move enough and get cramped up, as is evident in my forehand. I'm serving mostly light topspin to him so I can get some rallies going.

Anyway, here they are.

Good deal. When you are taking strokes, the strokes look mostly improved from before. There are only a few places where you push foreword instead of taking a stroke on the fuller swings. You teapot a little (dip laterally instead of turning from the waist) a few times. That is a not big deal. It will go away if you groove the good strokes.

The blocks look awkward and like you are a bit hesitant.

You are contacting your serve from too high which is why they are so high. And YOU NEED to work on PUSHES. Your pushes may be the worst part of your game. I would seriously practice pushing low and short so the push bounces at least 2x. It is an easy skill to work on. You just need softer hands and to do less. And as you get better you start pushing right off the bounce. Whereas, it looks like you are pushing after the ball is dropping.

But the biggest thing is: If you want to see your forehand more clearly, you have to film from the FOREHAND SIDE. This angle blocks the ability to see the FH and the serve. So you can't see when your racket is hidden by your body. If you film from the other side, it will not block your ability to see your BH and you will see the whole stroke of your FH and the whole stroke and contact of your serve.

There was one serve you made a spin contact on and you got some spin. But it did not land on the table. It bounced early on your side and the. Barely reached the net. Even though it did not go on, that was probably the serve with the best technique. The other serves look like you are contacting flat.

You will be able to see it from the other angle.

But good job posting some footage. From this footage we can see that you are improving decently. Nice work.



Sent from the Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

 

[suds79]

~4:43 - 4:50 - 8 ball rally you lost ... please don't take this the wrong way, i'm guilty of this myself ... 4th ball or 8th ball - probably should've tried to attack ... your 2nd ball LP return set you up for the 4th ball which you pushed back... your 6th ball LP return was popped up to your BH, but may have caught you flat-footed, you twiddled to your smooth side and netted it ... sometimes i get too passive and can't pull the trigger and end up pushing, looking for angle and then pivot and use my FH ... generally i try not to push past 5th ball, maybe 6th ball... but that backfires on me as i rush my attack and still have challenges in relaxing in my attacks.

~6:39 - 6:44 - you lost the point on this, but this i liked, you attacked... perhaps because it was a high return to your FH that your brain registered to attack and the signal moved your body.

~7:41-7:45 - serving wide into his FH, he returns to your BH, have you tried just punching it down the line to his BH? apologies if you tried in the match... watching at work during lulls in workflow, don't think i've seen you tried this. On some older post or other thread, IIRC you mentioned you sometimes punched.

~7:47-7:51 - LP swipe FTW!
~7:58-8:02 - inverted FH block FTW!

~11:09-11:25 - LP FTW!!

I think as you noted, you may have relied on your twiddling/LP a tad too much... there were a few "gimme's" you probably should've won.

I will be following your progress... it's a style i may try at some point. Thank you suds79 and good luck in your LP Adventure!

For sure OSP that point at 4:43 I should have attacked.

7:41. So on this one I served long and hit attacked it back to me. I had LP on my forehand. In a case like this, i can't block it back with my LP. It pretty much has to be a chop-block. he just out Spun me & out powered me so i sent it long. Now something I could have done there is try to RPB block it down the line with my short pips in that situation. It's something that I am trying to teach my brain to do. When it comes to my backhand, just because I might have LP of the forehand, doesn't mean i can't play an aggressive shot. just play the RPB. I can do it. Just not use to doing it a ton. More naturally a TPB guy.

BTW, I played this match with short pips. That's what's on the black side. I know I switch a lot between black inverted & black short pips but I just make less unforced errors with the short pips so I'll stick with that. It's a pinch harder but you can still RPB with short pips.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

I left out details of mechanics on FH because it is enough better than before that, to me, that is a good start.

Ultimately, the elbow needs to unbend at least a little on the backswing so you can bend the elbow on contact for increased acceleration and racket speed. The angle of the elbow stays mostly the same during the swing. There are a few where you may do what I am talking about. But, mostly, you don't. However, I am not sure you should worry about that now. Things are moving in the right direction.


Sent from the Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy