Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[NextLevel]

Back to the lefty advantage question, I asked a lefty at my club (who in his prime was over 2300, his daughter much better than him) if he had more trouble against other leftys.

He said there wasn't an unfamiliarity problem because they usually had just as much experience against other Left handed players as he had. So it felt like equal footing to him.

He also said "being unfamiliar with a new player is a much bigger difference than unfamiliar against left handed players." -paraphrase

Which makes sense to me. I'm imagining playing against someone like NL with his way of stroking the ball being just as unfamiliar to me as playing a lefty at his level

I asked


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Coming from a lefty, that sounds self serving. A player can be both unfamiliar and a lefty.

 

[ttmonster]

Who is the robot now ! ... nice smooth consistent contacts Carl

 

[NextLevel]

one of the matches I lost in the tournament on Saturday. I think I should be able to win this type of guys, but I lost once again. At the very end of the match, i'm suddenly utterly collapsing by myself...while it seemed that i was getting the upper hand.

it just shows that I'm lacking what it needs to close a set/game: reliable serve+3rd attack or receive +4th combos tactics.

I am watching the match and have just arrived at the 1-1 gsme score point in the match. You need to train with pips players much more, especially those that twiddle. If you can, get your coach to block with pips and let you loop for 5 to 10 minutes in every training. If the ball comes short you can push if you pop the ball up you will know you may have read a no spin ball as a backspin ball. The chopper was very kind to you, you gave him a lot of attack able balls but he only attacked the very very very easy ones.

A lot of my spin generating ability game from practice against pips of all kinds, it is a very different thing to loop a topspin ball and to loop a dead ball as you have to generate all the friction by yourself. Very often you would push back the ball and he would push with his pips and rather than attack that ball, you would push it and pop it up but the chopper only wanted to attack very easy balls.

So far, you haven't won many points off your serve which means you need to seriously improve your backspin - no spin serve combination. DerEchte was the one who first told me that pips react to heavy backspin and as he would put it, the first time you serve backspin to the pips and get a push into the net, it is a glorious moment and day because your will be able to serve lots of no spin and get pushes off the table or pop-ups if your disguise is very strong. Choppers tend to return serves well but this backspin no spin short to bring them in and then loop to them while they are on their heels is very powerful. But you relied too much on long serves with little spin. This is good as a variation but will expose you to loops vs better players and will also let Choppers disguise the spin as the ball is long and can be chopped below the table if necessary to add extra deception. They can still deceive you with the wrist even in plain sight so serving long all the time is not good.

I will watch the rest soon and comment.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Who is the robot now ! ... nice smooth consistent contacts Carl

The stuff I am doing while using the robot is very simple. I do like the basics. But I also had an agenda today which was to play with that contact point on the side of the ball for the BH loop. Very different than my normal BH and I think it will be a useful shift for me to utilize in many circumstances.


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

 

[NextLevel]

The stuff I am doing while using the robot is very simple. I do like the basics. But I also had an agenda today which was to play with that contact point on the side of the ball for the BH loop. Very different than my normal BH and I think it will be a useful shift for me to utilize in many circumstances.


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

A couple of things - the contact point does not necessarily mean sidespin is the dominant spin. It's my dominant contact point and I mostly loop topspin with a hint of sidespin to remain safe when looping heavy spin.

The stroke looks decent but a lot of the classical whip elements are missing. Focus on those as it will be hard to time them later if you want to add them. Always focus on whip.

 

[ttmonster]

I haven't tried to do it on purpose but I have seen somehow doing over the table banana have influenced my regular backhand loops to have some side spin

The stuff I am doing while using the robot is very simple. I do like the basics. But I also had an agenda today which was to play with that contact point on the side of the ball for the BH loop. Very different than my normal BH and I think it will be a useful shift for me to utilize in many circumstances.


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

 

[NextLevel]

one of the matches I lost in the tournament on Saturday. I think I should be able to win this type of guys, but I lost once again. At the very end of the match, i'm suddenly utterly collapsing by myself...while it seemed that i was getting the upper hand.

it just shows that I'm lacking what it needs to close a set/game: reliable serve+3rd attack or receive +4th combos tactics.

So I finished the match and I see and understand your frustration, but to be honest, you may be putting too much emphasis on your mental game and not enough on your ball quality. I think there is something to be said for the chopper or the fact that he was a chopper took you out of your comfort zone. At the very end, he started attacking those attackable balls that he had been chopping throughout the match and your topspin defense did not hold up. But you also put pressure on yourself by introducing new serves that you had not served throughout the match. I remember at a tournament when Brett was coaching me, he said that once he saw me starting to do a backhand serve at a critical point in the match, he knew I was going to miss it because I hadn't served backhand up to that point. You were putting pressure on yourself when the match got tight, when I think the correct approach is to realize that all points count the same and if the play was that special, you should had executed it on an earlier tight point. If you wanted to introduce a new serve, call a time out and work out the precise play you want to execute, and remind yourself to play your best TT to win the match. Personally, all the serves I want to use in a match show up in game 1 and the early part of game 2, the rest is location on the table.

The last thing I noticed was that you were sometimes impatient and tried to take a low ball down the line. Try to avoid this - the table area is less and unless you do it a lot in practice, you will loop long a lot. I tend to only take the high balls down the line when playing choppers or I spin the ball short down the line and see what happens. TRying to loop it with power is too risky if the ball is low.

I still think the bigger issue was your struggle to trouble him with serves (Again, choppers want to be off the table so if you serve long all the time, you are giving them the ball where they want to be) and your inability to attack the dead ball off his push in response to your push. You also almost never looped short to bring him in. Those things made your control of the game tenuous if his approach to the game improved and it improved just at the same time you were coming down. But I think that you played well enough that if you actually improved your approach a little, and learned to serve deceptive backspin and no-spin, this stuff can be fixed easily.

 

[Der_Echte]

Then there is the rest of people who just don't have the control to put the ball where they want. This doesn't bother me. With those people, as long as they are trying, I just think of the warmup as a random drill.


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Haha, looks just like Der_Echte. Trying like heck to topspin or block the soft ball to the proper place and fail, often mising the easiest of balls in the warm. I look like a large Dufas trying to warm up, I literally have no consistent warmup strokes except a great block vs heavy or fast balls.

People often judge me and my match level (those who see me for the first time) right or wrong they form opinions. Whether that is right or wrong in a match is another matter.... and when they lose to me, they wonder what the heck happened.

In the 80s, at the end of every mission, the leader of the A-Team would always strike a pose, smile, light up a cigar, then exclaim "I love it when a plan comes together !!"

 

[Der_Echte]

The last thing I noticed was that you were sometimes impatient and tried to take a low ball down the line. Try to avoid this - the table area is less and unless you do it a lot in practice, you will loop long a lot. I tend to only take the high balls down the line when playing choppers or I spin the ball short down the line and see what happens. TRying to loop it with power is too risky if the ball is low.

I actually believe the opposite in principle. If I am in position on time and can see the ball, I can finish it no matter how low it is. I would agree that trying to finish such a ball if you misread it or are off time/out of zone could be trouble.

I still think the bigger issue was your struggle to trouble him with serves (Again, choppers want to be off the table so if you serve long all the time, you are giving them the ball where they want to be) and your inability to attack the dead ball off his push in response to your push. You also almost never looped short to bring him in. Those things made your control of the game tenuous if his approach to the game improved and it improved just at the same time you were coming down. But I think that you played well enough that if you actually improved your approach a little, and learned to serve deceptive backspin and no-spin, this stuff can be fixed easily.

I agree so much with this simple down to the point analysis. How one structures the same serves can really make a difference and it is a matter of knowledge and experience.

 

[songdavid98]

one of the matches I lost in the tournament on Saturday. I think I should be able to win this type of guys, but I lost once again. At the very end of the match, i'm suddenly utterly collapsing by myself...while it seemed that i was getting the upper hand.

it just shows that I'm lacking what it needs to close a set/game: reliable serve+3rd attack or receive +4th combos tactics.

Two things:

1. I notice that your service needs a little more work. More variation. I like serving long topspin to the pips too, so I understand why you do it, but you will definitely get more mistakes if you varied, like short to the forehand.

2. You started playing more defensively, ESPECIALLY later in the match. Too many pushes and weak shots. I see a lot more backhands from you later in the match.
You won the first game by being more aggressive. You shouldn't have changed that strategy. You ended up losing the next three games.

In the last game, the chopper got to 10-10 deuce by attacking. You should not have let him.

It's okay to push sometimes, but this is too often.


EDIT: one more thing, you have to work on looping serves on your backhand side

**********
On the side note:

What I don't understand is why people think pushing is safe against chops. For me, a slow spinny loop is the safest option. Pushing a chop is harder than looping it, at least to me.

What do you guys think?

 

[Der_Echte]

I looked at SOME of the action (Slow internet connection right now) and can see right away what NL is saying. I am certain you were varying your spin on your serves to chopper's BH, but with a solid contact, he can get every one back, it is a matter of your 3rd ball and he is ready for that.

It is SO CRUCIAL to vary the serve short and place it differently and introduce EXTREME HEAVY UNDERSPIN as soon as you can to establish you have a heavy underspin serve. Once opponent knows that by missing a couple, he has to commit to a certain receive. When you suddenly change location, depth, and spin, it isn't as easy, he has to expect and plan for and execute too many possibilities. Being able to serve heavy underspin right away sets up the easier stuff on your variations. He will take risks (and lose points) or play safer (and give you easier balls to attack) plus, as NL mentioned, on the short balls you confused him, he has to move quicker to get into position and balance to chop, it isn't so easy when you can move him around on serve.

 

[NextLevel]

I actually believe the opposite in principle. If I am in position on time and can see the ball, I can finish it no matter how low it is. I would agree that trying to finish such a ball if you misread it or are off time/out of zone could be trouble.

I wouldn't have brought it up if he wasn't misreading the ball. You can do anything when you know what is on the ball and have the right stroke, but this was someone he could have beaten with his regular loop, no point in taking risks on such balls.

 

[Der_Echte]

I wouldn't have brought it up if he wasn't misreading the ball. You can do anything when you know what is on the ball and have the right stroke, but this was someone he could have beaten with his regular loop, no point in taking risks on such balls.

Can't argue against that. Especially the part about his regular loop (a good loop he has) if he is there and sees the ball right. Touch players put me into that situation.

 

[NextLevel]

**********
On the side note:

What I don't understand is why people think pushing is safe against chops. For me, a slow spinny loop is the safest option. Pushing a chop is harder than looping it, at least to me.

What do you guys think?

I get the logic, in practice, it depends on how heavy the chop is and how long it is as well as what the chopper does well. I think looping light backspin is easier than pushing it, but not everyone agrees, and it still depends on the chopper.

 

[DTopSpirit]

Speaking of choppers, here's a couple of all-round players in the final of the invitational tournament I was running yesterday.

Enjoy!

 

[Der_Echte]

Everyone/Anyone can beat down NL's views, but if they every visited hiz city and played vs that crowd, they would know.

 

[Der_Echte]

Wow, in Greg's vid, the red shirt tank top guy was EXTREME BH, but could still keep on table.

 

[JeffM]

Speaking of choppers, here's a couple of all-round players in the final of the invitational tournament I was running yesterday.

Enjoy!

What a nice game, thanks for sharing Greg
I love playing at that venue too, very nice environment.

 

[DTopSpirit]

Wow, in Greg's vid, the red shirt tank top guy was EXTREME BH, but could still keep on table.

Yeah, Craig is well known for his great backhand, as well as his athleticism. He was the runner-up at the O/60 World Veterans last year, and is still very fit and tough to play. He really can do it all - attack, lob, and chop with inverted rubber on both sides. He actually beat Colin in an earlier round robin match, also a 3-2 match that he came back from 8-10 down to win 12-10 in the fifth!

 

[Der_Echte]

I can see where he comes from, as I have a VERY very BH oriented screen name on another TT forum.