Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[ttmonster]

I tend to do the same to my partner in doubles , it pisses me off to no end to see my partner not open on a long ball , especially a push I have specifically set him up for him too loop and open ...

One of the things I like about my coach/training partner is that he will make fun of me and bully me mercilessly if I ever pass up a 3rd ball attack opportunity or play passively in general. It doesn't matter if I won the point or not. One single passive stroke and I know I'm gonna get it.

 

[SchemeSC]

Yes. It's never that simple though. Sometimes your reluctance to take the shot is based on a subconscious read of the situation. It's more important to have footage for you to figure out why you passed up the shot. I agree if you were in position and read the ball perfectly that you should be mocked.

I want to reiterate just how much I completely agree with this, just so people don't get the wrong idea about what I'm saying. If someone is passing up 3rd ball attacks, it may not necessarily be the case that the person is doing it because they're a wimp. BRS used to pass up lots of 3rd ball looping opportunities with his backhand, but it was obvious after watching the recovery after his serve that he was not going to be able to play a backhand loop, regardless of his mindset. As you mentioned, the footwork demands for looping are higher than they are for pushing, so if you have ball reading issues or recovery issues, you will be forced into pushing by default.

That being said, in my experience most people don't take a NO TOLERANCE policy towards passive play early enough in their playing career. So they end up ingraining passive decision making, and it's a bear to get out of it.

 

[Der_Echte]

If pushing long underspin balls and deep serves gives you a better chance to win, then you probably aren't at a high enough level to care about winning in the first place. Sounds harsh, but that's how I see it. Assuming you are a looper of course...

(BTW This is just a general comment directed towards everyone, not anyone in particular)

Sometimes when I am in a SAFE mode, I will push attack able serves. I have confidence in my ability to block and then take over. Doesn't work all the time but it works for me enough.

When we were at nyisc our first time, there was the theory that it is tough to win at 2000 level pushing, I wanted to show it could be done.

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[pgpg]

Sometimes when I am in a SAFE mode, I will push attack able serves. I have confidence in my ability to block and then take over. Doesn't work all the time but it works for me enough.

When we were at nyisc our first time, there was the theory that it is tough to win at 2000 level pushing, I wanted to show it could be done.

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I saw once ~2600+ visitor from China beat one of our 2100 players mostly by pushing. It was quite eye-opening...

 

[SchemeSC]

I have exactly one win against a 2000+ rated opponent in my entire playing career. I won that match primarily through pushing and blocking and allowing my power looping opponent to miss and have a really bad day. That match was probably one of the worst things that could have happened to me as a player.

 

[NextLevel]

Sometimes when I am in a SAFE mode, I will push attack able serves. I have confidence in my ability to block and then take over. Doesn't work all the time but it works for me enough.

When we were at nyisc our first time, there was the theory that it is tough to win at 2000 level pushing, I wanted to show it could be done.

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You didn't really prove otherwise. It's not that it can't be done, the problem is that you can't push ALL the time without putting pressure on your defense and if people know that all you do is push and block, they will just move you with the serve, open and kill the block.

 

[NextLevel]

I have exactly one win against a 2000+ rated opponent in my entire playing career. I won that match primarily through pushing and blocking and allowing my power looping opponent to miss and have a really bad day. That match was probably one of the worst things that could have happened to me as a player.

I push most serves and I can tell you that it is tough to survive pushing all the time. The thing is that you need the capability to attack once you know that your opponent handles the push too well. Most kids don't serve backspin to attack, they serve nasty varieties of side and side top disguised as back and side back, and then put the ball past you when you pop it up on the push. If you are so used to pushing that you can't even roll the serve, you become target practice for loopers.

The thing is that most people know how to push and put the ball on the table, but they don't know how to topspin and keep the ball safe, they think topspin is all about kill kill kill. So they push every serve and feel good until they meet that guy who knows how to loop kill EVERY push return. And because they never developed a feel for rolling the serve, they are stuck in that trap.

And it is trap best explained by what Brett said about people practicing against one spin all the time so they keep one racket angle for even the spins they know when they should adjust. The truth is that you can push all the time too if you know how to keep your push low even vs topspin and deep enough to make the opener come through. But how many people practice pushing against topspin that push all the time? And how many people practice pushing topspin properly?

 

[Der_Echte]

You didn't really prove otherwise. It's not that it can't be done, the problem is that you can't push ALL the time without putting pressure on your defense and if people know that all you do is push and block, they will just move you with the serve, open and kill the block.

Stimmt.

That means agree wit ya.

 

[thekleifheit13]

I met up with a friend of mine from work yesterday to play some TT at the UAkron Rec Center. He is a guy that played pretty regularly for about 10 years (no formal training) and stopped in 2013 when our company moved to a new building and no longer had a table to play at. He plays about 98% backhand and has difficulty with underspin and lobbers (which is great because pushing and lobbing are my bad habits), but can smash through a tremendous amount of topspin. So he is generally a good practice partner for me and punishes any ball I send over the net without a decent amount of gusto.


We warmed up rallying back and forth and I finally found a grip that’s comfortable for me – I tried USDCarl’s (Or EmRat’s ) pinch technique on the paddle and finally found that my grip was stable. No longer needing to worry about accidentally throwing the paddle, all my shots felt much better. So I looped and he hit/blocked, moving me all around the table and finally getting me to move in and out with a little more grace than an elephant…not much though.


Once we were warmed up, I asked him to do a 3rd ball attack drill where I served short under to his FH side of the table and he pushed anywhere. I had to attack with either a loop or flip, and tried to FH loop everything that came long. This was awesome practice for me because he really did push randomly, so I had to get in position and really get low to loop some of the half-long pushes. About 20 minutes of this and I was really starting to get some confidence in getting in position and looping with a relaxed stroke. Also, I finally was able to start picking out which balls I could loop hard and which balls I really had to brush over.


We played a quick best of 5 series so I could work on my tactics and serve variation, which I ended up winning -9, -9, -8. Being that I’m in a tournament Friday/Saturday, this was an awesome practice session and gave me some confidence for the tournament. I am still nervous for it, as the divisions I wanted to play in (U1400 and U1600) filled up very quickly. So I am in the U1800 and the U1900 divisions. Luckily, a lot of other lower rated people are in both, and I am actually the middle-ish seed in the U1800. U1900 should be a bloodbath though, but I’m gonna fight as best I can and try to play my game. My goal is to learn to still play good shots and use good strategy against better players.

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

Hello DTT CCers!


*dusts off the keyboard*


The rumors of my demise are greatly exaggerated!!!


42andbackpains probably told you all about what happened to me: We played a 3 out of 5 match. He spotted me 2 games and 9 points in the 3rd game and proceeded to win 24 straight points to take the match 3-2!! And i was shamed into hiding out in some cave named Reigando!


NOT!!! I'm here to tell you he lied!


Carl probably told you all about what happened to me: we met a few weeks back at SPIN. He checked my shoulder. Afterwards, we played a 4 out of 7 match. He spotted me 3 games and 9 points in the 4th game and proceeded to win 46 straight points to take the match 4-3!! And i was so ashamed I hid in the Bat Cave.


NOT!!! I'm here to tell you he lied!


LOL at me!!


Part of the reasons: i was busy with work. Also, partly, haven't been to my club to play nor visit. If i go, i will feel tempted and my shoulder is not ready yet. Still recovering. Mrs OSPH wanted me to try out acupuncture before and now tui na tonight before going to Western Medicine.


And if i surfed on here, I would be dying from reading/seeing others play and I couldn't. FTR, i gained a few pounds back despite some shadowing and walking as substitute for my TT workouts. Eased up on some of my martial workouts. Table Tennis is the only real physical activity I love and can go 3 hours or so, getting a great workout.


Carl via texts reminded me in his infinite wisdom... "Ask not what TTD can do for me but what I can do for TTD." ... i was selfish by staying away cos i would be tempted to play and cannot yet. and it would be agony and torture ... like i'm sentenced to Tartarus!


But, Carl, the wise sage (Shush Shuki! Carl is a wise sage too, not just Der... and yeah, I'm a poser wannabe wise sage that he is... the straw that stirs the drink that we all call TTD, reminded me one should not be selfish... for Balance, Centeredness and Harmony ... the Light Side of The Force needed Jedis and agents on TTD ... the Dark Side of The Force must be held at bay (I'm looking at you Archo! I'M J/K ARCHO!!! SORRY!)


SHOUT OUTS TO THE DTT CC posse: Boogar, Shuki, JeffM, Takkyu_wa_inochi, Liten, suds, pgpg , thekleifheit13, SchemeSC , Illia Minkin, and ...


And to the Goon Squad: Der, NextLevel, PPH, 42&bp, ttmonster, SugaD, and of course Carl the Straw


Due to old man memory, if i left anyone out, it is not my intent.


So IDK if i ever will catch up on 30+ pages and only Guoyuehua knows how many posts but by Guoyuehua ...


[begin John Wick voice] I'm thinking I'm back! [/voice]


That is if you can forgive me and have me back!

My sincerest apologies to TTD, especially the DTT CC thread, for my selfishness!

p.s. yes you too Archo!

 

[ttmonster]

what are you doing for rehab ? just curious to know , for me I have found only rest does not work .... good luck on your recovery , till you decide to be back we will keep Carl's straw stuck with boba pearls

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Hello DTT CCers!


*dusts off the keyboard*


The rumors of my demise are greatly exaggerated!!!


42andbackpains probably told you all about what happened to me: We played a 3 out of 5 match. He spotted me 2 games and 9 points in the 3rd game and proceeded to win 24 straight points to take the match 3-2!! And i was shamed into hiding out in some cave named Reigando!


NOT!!! I'm here to tell you he lied!


Carl probably told you all about what happened to me: we met a few weeks back at SPIN. He checked my shoulder. Afterwards, we played a 4 out of 7 match. He spotted me 3 games and 9 points in the 4th game and proceeded to win 46 straight points to take the match 4-3!! And i was so ashamed I hid in the Bat Cave.


NOT!!! I'm here to tell you he lied!


LOL at me!!


Part of the reasons: i was busy with work. Also, partly, haven't been to my club to play nor visit. If i go, i will feel tempted and my shoulder is not ready yet. Still recovering. Mrs OSPH wanted me to try out acupuncture before and now tui na tonight before going to Western Medicine.


And if i surfed on here, I would be dying from reading/seeing others play and I couldn't. FTR, i gained a few pounds back despite some shadowing and walking as substitute for my TT workouts. Eased up on some of my martial workouts. Table Tennis is the only real physical activity I love and can go 3 hours or so, getting a great workout.


Carl via texts reminded me in his infinite wisdom... "Ask not what TTD can do for me but what I can do for TTD." ... i was selfish by staying away cos i would be tempted to play and cannot yet. and it would be agony and torture ... like i'm sentenced to Tartarus!


But, Carl, the wise sage (Shush Shuki! Carl is a wise sage too, not just Der... and yeah, I'm a poser wannabe wise sage that he is... the straw that stirs the drink that we all call TTD, reminded me one should not be selfish... for Balance, Centeredness and Harmony ... the Light Side of The Force needed Jedis and agents on TTD ... the Dark Side of The Force must be held at bay (I'm looking at you Archo! I'M J/K ARCHO!!! SORRY!)


SHOUT OUTS TO THE DTT CC posse: Boogar, Shuki, JeffM, Takkyu_wa_inochi, Liten, suds, pgpg , thekleifheit13, SchemeSC , Illia Minkin, and ...


And to the Goon Squad: Der, NextLevel, PPH, 42&bp, ttmonster, SugaD, and of course Carl the Straw


Due to old man memory, if i left anyone out, it is not my intent.


So IDK if i ever will catch up on 30+ pages and only Guoyuehua knows how many posts but by Guoyuehua ...


[begin John Wick voice] I'm thinking I'm back! [/voice]


That is if you can forgive me and have me back!

My sincerest apologies to TTD, especially the DTT CC thread, for my selfishness!

p.s. yes you too Archo!

Hahahahahahaha. This had me laughing so hard, well, no use describing.

Thanks OldSchool. It is good to hear from the wise sage and serial liker.


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

what are you doing for rehab ? just curious to know , for me I have found only rest does not work .... good luck on your recovery , till you decide to be back we will keep Carl's straw stuck with boba pearls

Thank you ttmonster!

Rest AND working with light weights... doing some exercises from 7 Minutes Rotator Cuff Solution ... maybe i'm being a wussy about it and not doing enough.

LMAO at boba pearls!

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

PSSST Carl,

The deal is i give you a $20 and mums the word on my hellacious defeat from your thrashing in our 4 out of 7 match where you spotted me 3 games and 9 points in the 4th game and proceeded to win 46 straight points to take the match 4-3!!

That deal still stands, RIGHHHHTTT!?!?!?!?

Good! I would be SO embarassed if the DTT CC posse found out!

 

[Archosaurus]

@OSPH

Something felt that it wasn't right, now I know what it was.



Played several hours today. I hate my footwork: it needs to be improved. I find myself reaching very often or off-balance.

I guess this is just a product of hours of footwork drills and not much else. I just need to start incorporating the patters into real play.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Thank you ttmonster!

Rest AND working with light weights... doing some exercises from 7 Minutes Rotator Cuff Solution ... maybe i'm being a wussy about it and not doing enough.

LMAO at boba pearls!

Yep my recommendation for him when I saw him was:

1) an appointment with an orthopedic dr.
2) a referral to a physical therapist with a prescription for treatment from the orthopedic dr.
3) as an adjunct to that, rotator cuff strengthening exercises.

#3 can be useful to almost any shoulder injury for adults. Even when that is not the issue, 95+% of all adults have rotator cuff muscles that could use some strengthening exercises.

Good luck OSPH.


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

@OSPH
Played several hours today. I hate my footwork: it needs to be improved. I find myself reaching very often or off-balance.

I guess this is just a product of hours of footwork drills and not much else. I just need to start incorporating the patters into real play.

I would defer to others on this thread who may pass on advice ...

FWIW, this sort of works for me... 'sort of' in that i don't do enough of it ... but yes, more footwork drills... also i jump rope ... the jump rope doesn't help the footwork patterns but i feel lighter on my feet and more mobile ... my lightness in footwork manifested well in my martial arts... in table tennis not so much yet... i'm old, fat and slow... many challenges to overcome!

last time I met up with Carl, we were in Union Square Park... it was maybe 7pm, and dark... we talked about footwork and all of a sudden Carl is moving, flowing and shadow stroking as he moved, so carefree and with the ease of Fred Astaire... he was showing me what i could be doing until i could really get back to a table and paly

i had to warn him to stop as he didn't see the person behind him walking up, and that person was a typical NYer --- 'get out of my way, i'm not veering away' -- LOL

Also, forgot your footwear from the vids you posted ... ttmonster pointed out i should change my nike cross training sneakers to ??? ... he didn't mention but i suspect he would say the thin soled TT sneakers

as time is limited for me, well for everyone, i do mostly shuffling footwork as it helps my standup as well as doubling in helping my TT.

HTH

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

Yep my recommendation for him when I saw him was:

1) an appointment with an orthopedic dr.
2) a referral to a physical therapist with a prescription for treatment from the orthopedic dr.
3) as an adjunct to that, rotator cuff strengthening exercises.

#3 can be useful to almost any shoulder injury for adults. Even when that is not the issue, 95+% of all adults have rotator cuff muscles that could use some strengthening exercises.

Good luck OSPH.


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

Thank you Carl! Wife wants me to try her tui na doc. Was to go last Thurs night, but due to snowstorm, rescheduled for tonight. "Happy wife, happy life."

I will see how it goes. But ultimately probably going to go to ortho/PT.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Thank you Carl! Wife wants me to try her tui na doc. Was to go last Thurs night, but due to snowstorm, rescheduled for tonight. "Happy wife, happy life."

I will see how it goes. But ultimately probably going to go to ortho/PT.

Yeah. I know, I was not challenging your decision to go to Chinese medicine first. It might work and make sense. It is a good idea.

I was just saying where the rotator cuff exercise idea came from.

But the truth is, there is no reason you can't use both Chinese medicine and western medicine at the same time. They are not mutually exclusive. The Orthopedic Dr would just be for getting an accurate diagnosis. PTs without an accurate prescription can be beside the point, without that. They are usually not in the best position to give an accurate diagnosis. But when they know for sure what is actually wrong, they can be very useful.

Anyway, Chinese medicine may be all you need. I am hoping that is the case so you can be on here more and spread the positive vibes.

You should have seen the negative vibes and troll wars in your absence.


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

You should have seen the negative vibes and troll wars in your absence.

WHOA! maybe i should not catch up with the missed posts LOL (EDIT: although i need to 'feed' my serial liking habit LOLOL)

last time that happened was ... i'm not naming names...

Can live with negativitiy or live with positivity... my life is a horror, comedy and drama all rolled up into one... i choose to focus on positivity and happiness

LOL at me