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@NDH 2-3 years and I started with my ALC/Tenergy 64/H3 because my very first setup was from local store which was absolutely rubbish.So it is more of a personal experience, I couldn't control it and I had to shortened my stroke and I had alotta of different other negative effects. But I see why we are not agreeing here. I think of my style to be more suitable to chinese tacky rubbers since I have a big forehand stroke. I try to use my hip and waist and when I can. On the days that I'm on fire, my stomach really hurt due to the amount of work put on it, I still need to work hard on my footwork I admit. thats what I think , you however think that I have more western style. For the moment I can't agree on that, I used Euro/Jap rubbers on my forehand for few months and I always ended up changing it.
 
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@Musaab At the end of the day, you've improved a tremendous amount in only a few years, and any "equipment talk", is beside the point.

Unless you have top coaches, you'll unlikely achieve top strokes (and that's the same for all of us), so it's getting as close as possible through practice, online videos and any help you can get - You've already done this very well!

I have no doubt you'll have success with any rubber you choose - You've already shown that you can try different rubbers, and work out which is the best for your style of play - Which is ultimately..... Which one goes on the table the most!

This forum is great for getting other opinions, and helpful comments here and there - But nothing beats actually playing and learning yourself!

Good luck!
 
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So, you are saying you are Tyrion Lannister who likes to makes quotes that are by some supposed wise person. [emoji2]


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

LOLOL - I misquoted it too!

It should read, "Consistency trumps intensity."
 
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Guys, Y-day I was some match with Quadri Aruna against Alexey Liventsov ..
Any ideas what was that about?
Looked like a league match, but I couldnt find more info as it was on bet live stream..
Champions league RR stage. Orenburg and Sporting Lisbon have already advanced so it is more for show.
 
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Lol Carl. Everyone likes Tyrion

It's been a while since we played in NYC robert chen's club! I am in california now!

here is a video of my game from yesterday (at the start you can see my face). The long pauses between games are from when we went to watch the live stream of Tao's game :)

CONFISCATE!!!!!

OMG. Hahahahahahaha.

It’s been a long long time. You know, it is funny, I saw a video and thought it looked like you. But have been too busy and thought I might be imagining things or falling into the stereotype—“they all look alike.”

Der_Echte, Monster, if you are anywhere near Confiscate, you guys have to have a get together.

Confiscate and I used to play and train together when I first started. He is good people.

Confiscate, I think the last time I saw you was at that crazy bar with the TT Tables: Beer Garden. That was shortly after NYTTF closed. I could be wrong. But I think that was the last time we hung out.


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy
 
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I think of my style to be more suitable to chinese tacky rubbers since I have a big forehand stroke. I try to use my hip and waist and when I can. On the days that I'm on fire, my stomach really hurt due to the amount of work put on it, I still need to work hard on my footwork I admit. thats what I think.

Much of this is a matter of personal preference, so there's nothing wrong with you preferring Chinese rubbers. But to be clear, big strokes using legs and hips are normal for euro/jap rubbers too. It's just that there are *some* strokes where you don't *need* as much legs and hips to make good use of Euro/Jap rubbers.

AFAIK, one of the areas where this is most clear is close to the table forehand loop: there, very good players often favor a shorter, more compact stroke on Euro/Jap rubbers. That's because in that area, the benefits of the short strokes (especially in terms of *time*) are greater than the downsides for shot quality on Euro/Jap rubbers; whereas on Chinese tacky rubbers bigger strokes still have more benefits than downsides when very close to the table. But AFAIK moving a little further from the table, or when given ample time, strokes tend to get big on Euro/Jap rubbers too. (Look at Timo Boll's shot at around 1:39, talk about using legs and hips! https://youtu.be/TEiZhSobuFQ?t=1m39s)
 
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Much of this is a matter of personal preference, so there's nothing wrong with you preferring Chinese rubbers. But to be clear, big strokes using legs and hips are normal for euro/jap rubbers too. It's just that there are *some* strokes where you don't *need* as much legs and hips to make good use of Euro/Jap rubbers.

AFAIK, one of the areas where this is most clear is close to the table forehand loop: there, very good players often favor a shorter, more compact stroke on Euro/Jap rubbers. That's because in that area, the benefits of the short strokes (especially in terms of *time*) are greater than the downsides for shot quality on Euro/Jap rubbers; whereas on Chinese tacky rubbers bigger strokes still have more benefits than downsides when very close to the table. But AFAIK moving a little further from the table, or when given ample time, strokes tend to get big on Euro/Jap rubbers too. (Look at Timo Boll's shot at around 1:39, talk about using legs and hips! https://youtu.be/TEiZhSobuFQ?t=1m39s)


This is an important point, but I will make it in my response to Musaab as many people give bad advice on this subject in my experience as they don't know the difference between *hard sponge* and *tacky rubber* from a practical perspective.
 
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Much of this is a matter of personal preference, so there's nothing wrong with you preferring Chinese rubbers. But to be clear, big strokes using legs and hips are normal for euro/jap rubbers too. It's just that there are *some* strokes where you don't *need* as much legs and hips to make good use of Euro/Jap rubbers.

AFAIK, one of the areas where this is most clear is close to the table forehand loop: there, very good players often favor a shorter, more compact stroke on Euro/Jap rubbers. That's because in that area, the benefits of the short strokes (especially in terms of *time*) are greater than the downsides for shot quality on Euro/Jap rubbers; whereas on Chinese tacky rubbers bigger strokes still have more benefits than downsides when very close to the table. But AFAIK moving a little further from the table, or when given ample time, strokes tend to get big on Euro/Jap rubbers too. (Look at Timo Boll's shot at around 1:39, talk about using legs and hips! https://youtu.be/TEiZhSobuFQ?t=1m39s)

Excellent post. Also note how FZD, with H3 uses a very short, compact FH when close to the table and when countering powerful loops.
 
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Carl, confiscate, or any member knowledgeable about the NYC TT scene in 1980's-1990's,

Chatted with a friend of mine about Robert Chen. He seems to think I should know him as RC has been in the NYC TT scene for ages. I played ~1979-1985 or 1987 at an old firehouse on Lafayette Street and White Street... 2 blocks away from Canal Street. I saw RC's pic and don't recognize him, and I believe I have never played at 1 RC's club ever. I believe after the firehouse club closed is when RC opened his Broadway club. Once the firehouse closed, i pretty much quit TT, never thinking i would ever play again... college, dating, work, etc took over. Anyway, friend thinks RC played at the firehouse. I don't think so. Could be wrong about RC, just checking if anyone knows.

TIA.
 
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Last night... hit for pretty much 3 hours straight with regular partners. For about 45 mins just before I called it quits for the night, 2 coaches, both easily 2000+ (both PH, one a JPen and the other a modern PH but big guy plays with a SH) gave me tips/pointers/corrections on my TPB block/punch.

After 30+ yrs break from TT and with old man memory, I have gotten back into TT for about 3 yrs now. Either memory is wrong and my block/punch is wrong or i somehow drilled it wrong in the past 3 yrs and muscle memory has taken over. Listened to one coach off-table for 15 mins.

Props to ttmonster for noticing my punch/block has a long stroke, too long in fact. With the 2 coaches' advice last night, I will have to retrain my TPB punch. Thanked them for their graciousness. Wished everyone at the club a Merry Christmas and as tired as I was, left club and walked home in 27 mins for extra exercise LOL ... walk at my fastest should be 22 mins.

LOL at me ... never-ending quest for Self-Perfection!
 
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Carl, confiscate, or any member knowledgeable about the NYC TT scene in 1980's-1990's,

Chatted with a friend of mine about Robert Chen. He seems to think I should know him as RC has been in the NYC TT scene for ages. I played ~1979-1985 or 1987 at an old firehouse on Lafayette Street and White Street... 2 blocks away from Canal Street. I saw RC's pic and don't recognize him, and I believe I have never played at 1 RC's club ever. I believe after the firehouse club closed is when RC opened his Broadway club. Once the firehouse closed, i pretty much quit TT, never thinking i would ever play again... college, dating, work, etc took over. Anyway, friend thinks RC played at the firehouse. I don't think so. Could be wrong about RC, just checking if anyone knows.

TIA.

Robert could have played at the firehouse and you still may not have met him. And I do believe he did open NYTTF after the firehouse was out of the picture.
 
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@NDH 2-3 years and I started with my ALC/Tenergy 64/H3 because my very first setup was from local store which was absolutely rubbish.So it is more of a personal experience, I couldn't control it and I had to shortened my stroke and I had alotta of different other negative effects. But I see why we are not agreeing here. I think of my style to be more suitable to chinese tacky rubbers since I have a big forehand stroke. I try to use my hip and waist and when I can. On the days that I'm on fire, my stomach really hurt due to the amount of work put on it, I still need to work hard on my footwork I admit. thats what I think , you however think that I have more western style. For the moment I can't agree on that, I used Euro/Jap rubbers on my forehand for few months and I always ended up changing it.

You couldn't control it because you were focused on getting the ball on the table and your muscle memory could not adapt. Like I said, the solution is to learn now to do this by broadening your concept of ball control using the racket, not to try to go to slower equipment necessarily, but either approach is fine as long as your coach knows how to manage it. Without coaching, going to slower equipment is reasonable, especially a slower blade.

On the subject of tacky rubbers, it is a common mistake for many people to not distinguish the effects of hard sponge from tacky rubbers. Tacky rubbers, which usually have hard sponge, release the ball slowly because of the effect of the tack in holding on to the ball. This has some advantages for close to the table game play and for larger strokes on some shots, but they generally reduces the quality of spin and speed on the ball. Hard sponge is generally not spinny on slower strokes unless the topsheet is grippy and/or tacky for extreme brushing - it allows you to loop with power as the sponge is harder to bottom out and also if the topsheet is not tacky, has more speed and spin because the ball is released faster. What you need is harder sponge, not tackier rubber. Your game is not advanced enough to get the full benefits of tacky rubber which are the short game control. But if you want to continue down that path, do so, but your spin and power will be generally less effective for the game you are currently playing and will likely play for the next few years. IT's when you get to a level where short game is at a premium and your use of the body is consistently high level that tacky rubbers show their full value and even then, many players still play well with hard sponged Euro rubber on their forehand as we can see from the ITTF rankings. Most pros play with something at 50 degrees or higher. That's why I baseline what people should put on the forehand at 46 degrees. Some rubbers catapult too much so you need something linear but it doesn't have to be tacky.

My question is what Euro Jap rubbers have you used on the forehand? And what have you tried to do when you used them? Your stroke is not getting the right output for what you are putting in and comes back to the question of whether your technique is really doing what it is supposed to be doing. You are driving the ball way too much with your stroke. The spin content should be much higher.

Shortening your stroke is not a bad thing if it lets you play 3 or 4 shots consistently when you could have played one. But what I find is that people who do not brush/spin sufficiently often shorten their stroke first rather than changing their contact point first, which is what more spin-oriented players do. That's really what you should first do when you use faster or slower equipment. Find the contact point on the ball that keeps the ball on the table.

I have actually used Tacky rubbers (Big Dipper, Juic 999 Turbo, H3) at different points as well as Tenergy, other Japanese ESN stuff. The main reason I don't use Tenergy is that I like the feeling of harder sponge and commercial Tenergy 05 doesn't *feel* hard to me (others disagree). But I have also discovered that while Tacky rubber has great control, the output I get is not sufficient on most of the strokes that I play when competing with the players that I am trying to beat. That's why I use MX-S and if I didn't use that, I might use something like OVA or an ESN Turbo sponge. But make no mistake, I am trying to put heavy rotation on the ball and loop drive the ball when the opportunity arises. But you won't focus on the rotation if the blade is too slow as you will be hitting too hard.

In the end, I cannot dissuade you from using something that you think is best for your game. But as long as someone is giving you good advice close to you, what I would say is that give what players like myself and NDH are telling you some consideration. We are seeing something that you are not seeing. Your stroke is full and large, but as you play better players, you will need to develop more than a few things to continue rallies and your current equipment will not get you there as the blade rubber combo is too slow on the forehand side at the very least. You need to play with much more spin than you are playing with right now, regardless of the equipment you use.
 
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Robert could have played at the firehouse and you still may not have met him. And I do believe he did open NYTTF after the firehouse was out of the picture.

Last night, my friend mentioned RC definitely opened a club in 2004, but he thought RC played at the firehouse also. I told him i didn't think so, and i would ask around.

You are have a point, he could've played there and we still wouldn't know him ... also asked 42andbackpains and another friend/brother from our old TT crew, we don't recall RC playing there.

Thanks Carl!
 
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Excellent post. Also note how FZD, with H3 uses a very short, compact FH when close to the table and when countering powerful loops.

Yes, but he is boosting heavily and using a Viscaria. I know how Musaab feels, it is when I play people like Leshinsky that I learn the limitations of taking strokes that you can't recover quickly enough from. Musaab can get away with it now at his current playing level but over time, it will catch up with him and he will have to shorten his stroke whether he likes it or not or as NDH is telling him, rotate back and forth with a lot more body so the recovery is faster.
 
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Shortening your stroke is not a bad thing if it lets you play 3 or 4 shots consistently when you could have played one.

The lesson/advice/tip/pointer I received last night about my TPB punch. Lots of muscle memory to forget in my case.
 
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You couldn't control it because you were focused on getting the ball on the table and your muscle memory could not adapt. Like I said, the solution is to learn now to do this by broadening your concept of ball control using the racket, not to try to go to slower equipment necessarily, but either approach is fine as long as your coach knows how to manage it. Without coaching, going to slower equipment is reasonable, especially a slower blade.

On the subject of tacky rubbers, it is a common mistake for many people to not distinguish the effects of hard sponge from tacky rubbers. Tacky rubbers, which usually have hard sponge, release the ball slowly because of the effect of the tack in holding on to the ball. This has some advantages for close to the table game play and for larger strokes on some shots, but they generally reduces the quality of spin and speed on the ball. Hard sponge is generally not spinny on slower strokes unless the topsheet is grippy and/or tacky for extreme brushing - it allows you to loop with power as the sponge is harder to bottom out and also if the topsheet is not tacky, has more speed and spin because the ball is released faster. What you need is harder sponge, not tackier rubber. Your game is not advanced enough to get the full benefits of tacky rubber which are the short game control. But if you want to continue down that path, do so, but your spin and power will be generally less effective for the game you are currently playing and will likely play for the next few years. IT's when you get to a level where short game is at a premium and your use of the body is consistently high level that tacky rubbers show their full value and even then, many players still play well with hard sponged Euro rubber on their forehand as we can see from the ITTF rankings. Most pros play with something at 50 degrees or higher. That's why I baseline what people should put on the forehand at 46 degrees.

My question is what Euro Jap rubbers have you used on the forehand? And what have you tried to do when you used them? Your stroke is not getting the right output for what you are putting in and comes back to the question of whether your technique is really doing what it is supposed to be doing. You are driving the ball way too much with your stroke. The spin content should be much higher.

Shortening your stroke is not a bad thing if it lets you play 3 or 4 shots consistently when you could have played one. But what I find is that people who do not brush/spin sufficiently often shorten their stroke first rather than changing their contact point first, which is what more spin-oriented players do. That's really what you should first do when you use faster or slower equipment. Find the contact point on the ball that keeps the ball on the table.

I have actually used Tacky rubbers (Big Dipper, Juic 999 Turbo, H3) at different points as well as Tenergy, other Japanese ESN stuff. The main reason I don't use Tenergy is that I like the feeling of harder sponge and commercial Tenergy 05 doesn't *feel* hard to me (others disagree). But I have also discovered that while Tacky rubber has great control, the output I get is not sufficient on most of the strokes that I play when competing with the players that I am trying to beat. That's why I use MX-S and if I didn't use that, I might use something like OVA or an ESN Turbo sponge. But make no mistake, I am trying to put heavy rotation on the ball and loop drive the ball when the opportunity arises. But you won't focus on the rotation if the blade is too slow as you will be hitting too hard.

In the end, I cannot dissuade you from using something that you think is best for your game. But as long as someone is giving you good advice close to you, what I would say is that give what players like myself and NDH are telling you some consideration. We are seeing something that you are not seeing. Your stroke is full and large, but as you play better players, you will need to develop more than a few things to continue rallies and your current equipment will not get you there as the blade rubber combo is too slow on the forehand side at the very least. You need to play with much more spin than you are playing with right now, regardless of the equipment you use.

Alright. This is an amazing post. You guys should all be hitting that like button.
 
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I played some good table tennis today. Have lots of click-bait points:

My favorite from this match:
https://youtu.be/FvRJTULb0Bw?t=122

Sick backhand:
https://youtu.be/IcPKzkABR6g?t=150

GPS forehand:
https://youtu.be/IcPKzkABR6g?t=498

Footwork and forehand:
https://youtu.be/FhahYwFLMdM?t=725

The speed and agility of your turn to FH has improved sooooo much.

That down the line FH in the first clip is evil. :) And I love how you call the third one GPS FH. So accurate. :)
 
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Just an excuse for me to give away blades and rubbers while getting more people to post video of their play.

How to be an EJ and make it work for the whole forum. NextLevel IS the real Santa Claus.
 
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The speed and agility of your turn to FH has improved sooooo much.

That down the line FH in the first clip is evil. :) And I love how you call the third one GPS FH. So accurate. :)

I felt physically good that day. I unfortunately don't feel that way all the time or long enough to usually build on it.
 
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