Question on stepping around

[zeio]

I think i have asked this before. I Do not know. Have you translated more videos? Especially about footwork. Regarding the strokes i think We europeans are around equal, But footwork, balance and weigth transfer the chinese know alot.

I find it interesting that he Did not show cross step with backhand. The old chinese coach in my club teach my students that. Almost never seen anyone actually Do it so Maybe it is not needed. I think overall the cross step is not used so much anymore because people play more backhand.

Yes, I started a thread, though not exactly on footwork. Look here for more.

There's a saying in Chinese that goes "三分手，七分腳", literally "30% stroke, 70% footwork." It gets quoted whenever the topic is about footwork. The funny thing is the first footwork I ever learned was the cross step, to return a topspin shot with a FH chop in penhold grip.

Anyway. For cross step with BH, I don't recall anyone teaching it. I guess the idea is that it's just the same thing but in the other direction. It's true you don't see the cross step as often now since players around the world, save the Koreans, don't step around as much anymore.

 

[Baal]

Arm flexors (FH muscles) are stronger than extenders (BH muscles). By contrast leg extenders are stronger than flexors (they support your weight).

 

[Silver smasher]

I can do a reasonable backhand but I need to be in the right position and if the ball moves sideways I find it hard to adjust. On the forehand it is easier to connect with a ball that has spun further away or closer than I expected. Also it is much easier on the forehand to disguise the direction (though top players like Liam Pitchford seem to be able to completely fool opponents on the backhand).

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Arm flexors (FH muscles) are stronger than extenders (BH muscles). By contrast leg extenders are stronger than flexors (they support your weight).

This is as concise as you can get and an excellent explanation at the same time.

 

[nivekkan]

Nivekkan is the typical philosopher playing table tennis. All about imagination, less about practice.

I do not think you are in position to comment about me personally. You are not my coach, my friend or in my family. You know nothing about me.
Sure, I adimid that I talk a lot but it is not mutually exclusive with practicing which I do as much as I can without affecting my day to day life. You seriously need to apologise. Otherwise, don't talk to me.

 

[nivekkan]

Yes, I started a thread, though not exactly on footwork. Look here for more.

There's a saying in Chinese that goes "三分手，七分腳", literally "30% stroke, 70% footwork." It gets quoted whenever the topic is about footwork. The funny thing is the first footwork I ever learned was the cross step, to return a topspin shot with a FH chop in penhold grip.

Anyway. For cross step with BH, I don't recall anyone teaching it. I guess the idea is that it's just the same thing but in the other direction. It's true you don't see the cross step as often now since players around the world, save the Koreans, don't step around as much anymore.

Interesting. I will check out the video later.

 

[nivekkan]

This is as concise as you can get and an excellent explanation at the same time.

I agree.

 

[NextLevel]

I do not think you are in position to comment about me personally. You are not my coach, my friend or in my family. You know nothing about me.
Sure, I adimid that I talk a lot but it is not mutually exclusive with practicing which I do as much as I can without affecting my day to day life. You seriously need to apologise. Otherwise, don't talk to me.

Wasn't talking to you - was talking to other people so that they don't feel they are misreading you. You have pretended to listen to a lot of people without listening to a lot of people. That is why just about everyone seems to miss that you have accepted all the things that if you accepted them you wouldn't be asking these questions.

On another thread, we pointed out that even baseball players almost never swing with a backhand orientation. Moreover, a sport like TT is largely evolutionary. The logic comes later to explain what most people have succeeded and failed at in practice.

Don't go looking for apologies. Otherwise I will ask for apologies doe these questions.

You remind me of a lot of people I have coached including past versions of myself.

 

[Lula]

Yes, I started a thread, though not exactly on footwork. Look here for more.

There's a saying in Chinese that goes "三分手，七分腳", literally "30% stroke, 70% footwork." It gets quoted whenever the topic is about footwork. The funny thing is the first footwork I ever learned was the cross step, to return a topspin shot with a FH chop in penhold grip.

Anyway. For cross step with BH, I don't recall anyone teaching it. I guess the idea is that it's just the same thing but in the other direction. It's true you don't see the cross step as often now since players around the world, save the Koreans, don't step around as much anymore.

It is interesting that europeans and chinese focus on very different things. Almost culture shock for me when came to my club our coach. But he have been a reallly really good player. But he is around 50 years of age so i can imagine he teach some old school things. Yes, bh cross step is the same thing But in the other direction. Have also learned me that We should move and hit at the same time. He mean that the euorpean way of move first then hit is to slow.

When i clicked on the thread Link i came to youtube. Is this correct?

 

[lVegita]

Nivekkan is the typical philosopher playing table tennis. All about imagination, less about practice.

I do not think you are in position to comment about me personally. You are not my coach, my friend or in my family. You know nothing about me.
Sure, I adimid that I talk a lot but it is not mutually exclusive with practicing which I do as much as I can without affecting my day to day life. You seriously need to apologise. Otherwise, don't talk to me.

NL can correct me if I’m wrong, but I think that what he meant with that, is that some of your questionings, like FH vs BH power, and this stepping around thing, would be self-answered during practice. You would find that some stuff, while possible, may be not very practical in match play, or have better options.

Don’t take it so personal, just have fun with the game

Edit: He already replied while I was writing this

 

[NextLevel]

NL can correct me if I’m wrong, but I think that what he meant with that, is that some of your questionings, like FH vs BH power, and this stepping around thing, would be self-answered during practice. You would find that some stuff, while possible, may be not very practical in match play, or have better options.

Don’t take it so personal, just have fun with the game

Edit: He already replied while I was writing this

Thanks, IVegita. He knows what I mean. He wants to take offense is because someone is pointing out the emperor has no clothes. Conveniently, he is indignant about his purported ignorance.

 

[nivekkan]

NL can correct me if I’m wrong, but I think that what he meant with that, is that some of your questionings, like FH vs BH power, and this stepping around thing, would be self-answered during practice. You would find that some stuff, while possible, may be not very practical in match play, or have better options.

Don’t take it so personal, just have fun with the game

Edit: He already replied while I was writing this

That would be the best method to learn anything. Do it yourself. But if it is the end of story, what is the point of having a technique or strategy section in a forum? Why not do both? Try yourself and talk about it.
I asked in the Fh vs Bh post, why The is FH much more preferred than BH. The answer is very obvious and uniformly agreed. I agree to. Here I asked why don't people do more full stroke with BH. There are some play a bigger factor than others. I think they gives really good insight. I appreciate everyone taking their time to replying. Even though I haven't replied to ever single post staying thanks. It doesn't mean I have to agree with them to understand them.
NL. comes and say that I don't try to understand. I won't pretend to understanding every reply 100% but I do try and it is helpful to me.
I'm not looking for apologize which I'm not expecting to get from his attitude form the beginning. I'm looking for him to not talk to me.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

You seriously need to apologise. Otherwise, don't talk to me.

I have to admit, I don't see anything that NextLevel should apologize for. But it is a bit odd to demand an apology.

What part of the idea that you are analyzing things from a philosophical perspective and asking questions which would be be obvious from practice is unclear or insulting?

Earlier you told me that me saying I would look forward to seeing your success was somehow not a nice "world". Perhaps there is a language issue. I do know everyone interprets things in their own way. And some people are more easily offended.

But please, nobody here is against you personally even if they may try and bring out some details the show some underlying issues.

I do think if you try to play and train for several practice sessions the way you are suggesting, it will help your BH improve and it will also help you understand why it is not usually done that way at higher levels.

There is a footwork training drill where you play a match with someone and they try to move you around you have to take all shots with your FH.

You could switch that around and try playing a match where they move you around and you try to cover the whole table with your BH. It would actually be pretty fun. You could even go back and forth between one game all FH and next game all BH.

The opponent would not be trying to win points, just trying to get you out of position so it is harder for you to use only one wing. It could be done with just rallies instead of points like serve and receive as well.

It is definitely good training.

BTW: For training, they used to take two tables and put them together, side by side, and make Ryu Seung Min cover two tables with only his FH.

One table is enough though.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

I'm looking for him to not talk to me.

You cannot stop people from posting on threads. And I think part of the problem here is, just because someone posts on a thread does not mean they are "talking to you." But there is an ignore feature. You can choose to ignore certain people if you choose. You can choose to simply ignore them without the ignore feature which hides their posts. Or you can use the actual ignore feature.

If you choose to ignore someone, go to their profile and choose "ignore user" from the list below their name.

However, using the ignore feature can cause you to miss good info when the user posts good info.

 

[nivekkan]

I have to admit, I don't see anything that NextLevel should apologize for. But it is a bit odd to demand an apology.

What part of the idea that you are analyzing things from a philosophical perspective and asking questions which would be be obvious from practice is unclear or insulting?

Earlier you told me that me saying I would look forward to seeing your success was somehow not a nice "world". Perhaps there is a language issue. I do know everyone interprets things in their own way. And some people are more easily offended.

But please, nobody here is against you personally even if they may try and bring out some details the show some underlying issues.

I do think if you try to play and train for several practice sessions the way you are suggesting, it will help your BH improve and it will also help you understand why it is not usually done that way at higher levels.

There is a footwork training drill where you play a match with someone and they try to move you around you have to take all shots with your FH.

You could switch that around and try playing a match where they move you around and you try to cover the whole table with your BH. It would actually be pretty fun. You could even go back and forth between one game all FH and next game all BH.

The opponent would not be trying to win points, just trying to get you out of position so it is harder for you to use only one wing. It could be done with just rallies instead of points like serve and receive as well.

It is definitely good training.

BTW: For training, they used to take two tables and put them together, side by side, and make Ryu Seung Min cover two tables with only his FH.

One table is enough though.

That really seems fun. I'm definitely trying that next time. I think there is a point to be made about trying out an idea more thoroughly yourself before asking. That might actually be an better idea that I should have thought of before I posted this thread. But I really curious to see what people has to say about it. I'll try to figuring it out myself longer without being driven by my curiosity next time.

But LN. is being really negative in the conversation, instead of productive.

 

[lVegita]

That would be the best method to learn anything. Do it yourself. But if it is the end of story, what is the point of having a technique or strategy section in a forum? Why not do both? Try yourself and talk about it.
I asked in the Fh vs Bh post, why The is FH much more preferred than BH. The answer is very obvious and uniformly agreed. I agree to. Here I asked why don't people do more full stroke with BH. There are some play a bigger factor than others. I think they gives really good insight. I appreciate everyone taking their time to replying. Even though I haven't replied to ever single post staying thanks. It doesn't mean I have to agree with them to understand them.
NL. comes and say that I don't try to understand. I won't pretend to understanding every reply 100% but I do try and it is helpful to me.
I'm not looking for apologize which I'm not expecting to get from his attitude form the beginning. I'm looking for him to not talk to me.

You see, there is nothing wrong with asking these questions, but from both the threads, there is a similarity: You are asking things out of curiosity, not really trying to solve a problem you are facing. Again, nothing wrong with that, but it may be quite harder to digest the answers then.

You asked what is the point of having a technique/strategy session. Below is a good example of someone trying to fix a real problem he was having. He is not supposing anything. He just had a problem and asked how to solve it. That thread was one of my favorites of all time, because I was facing the same problem and there were lots of good inputs that helped me. The first post from Lula changed my whole mentality in training. I didn’t even participate in it, but I learned so much that I will probably just read it all again.

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/showthread.php?21594-Tips-on-how-to-get-out-of-push-battes

Also, ignoring NL would be quite a loss, following this forum. If you read the thread I posted, you will see that he has very good inputs.

 

[nivekkan]

You see, there is nothing wrong with asking these questions, but from both the threads, there is a similarity: You are asking things out of curiosity, not really trying to solve a problem you are facing. Again, nothing wrong with that, but it may be quite harder to digest the answers then.

You asked what is the point of having a technique/strategy session. Below is a good example of someone trying to fix a real problem he was having. He is not supposing anything. He just had a problem and asked how to solve it. That thread was one of my favorites of all time, because I was facing the same problem and there were lots of good inputs that helped me. The first post from Lula changed my whole mentality in training. I didn’t even participate in it, but I learned so much that I will probably just read it all again.

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/showthread.php?21594-Tips-on-how-to-get-out-of-push-battes

Also, ignoring NL would be quite a loss, following this forum. If you read the thread I posted, you will see that he has very good inputs.

Sorry about that. I guess that is something to look out for in the future. It won't be a thread that suppose something once I give my experience and perhaps videos (I can't guarantee on that) after a few sessions so look out for it.

 

[Brs]

I saw coaches practicing the backhand cross-step after hours at B75 camp in 2018. It was like an insane falkenberg. Pivot, fh cross-step, bh cross-step, pivot .....

I was tired just watching it.

 

[songdavid98]

Back to the topic on hand:
backhand has less range then forehand, since the backhand generally use the elbow as a pivot point while the forehand uses the body.
So even under perfect conditions, where a backhand is just as skilled and powerful as a forehand and the player can do the cross step footwork in both directions, you give up more much angle if try to do a pivot backhand than a pivot forehand.

Here's a picture I sketched for a right handed person. It isn't perfect, but I hope it gets the point across.


EDIT: i forgot to label the diagram on the right as backhand pivot
And the brown circle is the player
Just to add additional comments, this is just the nature of the fact that forehand has longer reach, or the width of the colored boxes. Because the forehand reach is longer, the uncovered area is less for a pivot forehand than a pivot backhand

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Also, ignoring NL would be quite a loss, following this forum. If you read the thread I posted, you will see that he has very good inputs.

Totally agree. NextLevel really can explain certain things about so many technical aspects of the game and also about equipment that very few people can. Invariably, if he is saying something, there is something behind it that is worth examining.