Dignics 09c vs hurricane 3

[NextLevel]

Oh. Okay. That makes more sense. I was thinking of the short game potential of touching soft and still getting massive spin. Darn. It turns out I won't be switching to Ma Long's extra hard FH H3 for my BH after all.

Yeah. I could see, players used to playing with H3, training with H3, knowing how to get that top end performance out of H3 being able to get more spin and pace from H3 at the top end while players used to using spring sponge may feel something different when comparing D09c to H3 [Do I need to say: BOOSTED ]

Touching soft actually has a similar concept but in a different way. The short pushes you can do with Chinese rubber are larger strokes. They aren't quite like the European rubber touches.

But yeah, the main point I was trying to make was that doing an open up from below the table with slow heavy topspin is a shot that you won't be seeing an H3 user do very often as their primary focus. They can loop the ball more forward and get a better result even when taking the ball late.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Just about EVERY KOEANN AMATEUR TT CLUB I have ever stepped into, and I stepped into a lot, I got around, had such a full length mirror for exactly this purpose.

Old School coaches, who run most of the clubs, are big-time into the importance of shadow strokes.

Some of the more "Radical" of the old school crowd will have you shadows stroking for MONTHS or even a year before they will coach you.

Next Korea president was one of these who had such an old school mentality coach.

Funny story. Alex Perez, way way back, was having some back problems. Robert Chen told him to work with me, that I could help his back. He came to me and we arranged an hour for an hour. I would help his back. He would give me a lesson.

We scheduled each session. And then, I was playing, training, doing some matches, and Alex was there watching. I wasn't thinking about it. I had no idea he would do this. He watched me do some training and he watched me play some matches. Then he called me over and he said: "my back, it is not so bad. It will get better. You will help, I am sure. But it will get better. Your game, your game needs a lot more help than my back!!!!" Hahahahahahahah.

Then he pulled me into the Dance Room at NYTTF where they also did martial arts because it had mirrors. And he got me to do shadow strokes until he was satisfied that they were decent, shadow strokes for FH and BH. Then he told me to do 3000-5000 a day till I saw him for the lesson. When I saw him, he knew I had done the homework.

Ever since, I have practiced shadow strokes and shadow footwork drills to help my on table work improve faster. It does not fix everything. But when I feel my feet do the textbook footwork as I am moving for a ball, it always makes me happy.

 

[zyu81]

Review of D09C boosted vs. H3 national boosted by forum poster scrubplayer.

"

Boosting techique:
09c: 4 thin layer of falco tempo long with 4 layers of medium viscosity glue. The formula I like as I've been boosting dignics for a while and tried different combination.
h3nat (41 degree, 2.1mm) : 4 layers of sea moon with 5 layer of high viscosity glue. The formula that pro uses.


Speed: A lot of people always care about the speed from a straight line point of view but lots of people keep forgetting that speed = distant travel / time.
For d09c the time aspect is lower compare to h3 but for h3 since the throw angle is lower the distant travel is significantly lower than 09c. At full power h3nat is definitely faster compare to 09c.

Short game: is pretty much the same.

Ease of use:
D09c is definitely easier to generate pace and spin.

When playing with h3 you need to play it as an extension of your hand, you need to have that snap wrist to achieve the maximum spin. This is something dan do not have; thus his video is very inaccurate (he also don't know how to properly boost h3 that's for sure). However, for d09c you do not need to do the wrist snapping thing to achieve maximum spin. Doing the wrist snapping thing will only make the ball very uncontrollable.

H3 will weirdly go to the net if you forgot to do the snap wrist thing during your stroke. I am used to play with euro rubber so sometimes i forgot to loosen my wrist.

Counter looping:
Both are easy but h3 have this extra gear that d09c do not have. As i mentioned from my previous post if my opponent do a very spinny opening. I can wait the ball to come down THEN loop it with full force (XX love to do that, it looks easy but it's actually a really difficult shot). I can do the same thing with 09c but not as confident with h3 nat.



TL;DR h3 is spinner, faster at higher gear, slower at lower gear. However d09c is easier to use and it last significantly longer than h3 national. The boosting effect on 09c is permanent. For h3 nat, you either bubble it in 2 weeks or the boosting effect will be gone. H3 nat is not worth it, not the price not the hassle.

"

 

[brokenball]

I pity Pathfinderpro who put in so much work only to have someone come in and say science is shit.

I pity JRSDallas who posted some meaningful measurements only for it to fall on deaf ears.

The world was flat until someone proved it different, and they killed the guy who said it out loud first.

Don't waste your time Brokenball.

I liked your post.

I am not going to waste my time. I just got back from camping. I plan to do a lot more. I am 67 now and would rather play for fun and exercise than put the time into research like PathfinderPro.

You are correct about TT players wanting to believe their myths and that they are critical of anyone that would prove them wrong.

I have high speed cameras and the things needed to analyze motion control. That is what I do. I my company makes and sells motion controllers around the world including China and Russia.

I have been accused of suffering from the Dunning Kruger effect on other forums.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect
It is easier to make ad hominem attacks than to address the facts.
It is easier to delete the persons account. This is what is happening all over the internet.
No one wants the truth.
They just want to feel good for the moment.

My advise is that the equipment isn't as important as physical ability, practice and experience. The TT manufactures are always repackaging the same old stuff and selling it as something new. PT Barnum had a quote about this.

 

[zyu81]

My advise is that the equipment isn't as important as physical ability, practice and experience. The TT manufactures are always repackaging the same old stuff and selling it as something new. PT Barnum had a quote about this.

Does anyone think otherwise?

 

[RidTheKid]

Most EJ's perhaps?

Does anyone think otherwise?

 

[zyu81]

Review of D09C boosted vs. H3 national boosted by forum poster scrubplayer.

"
TL;DR h3 is spinner, faster at higher gear, slower at lower gear.
"

Heard from a friend who is quite a capable power looper, who recently tested the same rubbers, however 09C unboosted, who said this, and that it was very noticeable, direct opposite from Dan's review.

 

[bobpuls]

But Dan tested 24 Euro rubber neo version.... Not national....Test of National version will follow in short time!! ..

 

[NextLevel]

Heard from a friend who is quite a capable power looper, who recently tested the same rubbers, however 09C unboosted, who said this, and that it was very noticeable, direct opposite from Dan's review.

Well the technical approach to H3 (boosted or unboosted) in the original review left a lot to be desired. I am not a player on the level of Dan don't get me wrong, but you are supposed to apply a very physical style to get the best of of H3.

EDIT: If like Bobpuls pointed out, the version being tested against is not quality controlled, then maybe that could explain some of it.

 

[zyu81]

Well the technical approach to H3 (boosted or unboosted) in the original review left a lot to be desired. I am not a player on the level of Dan don't get me wrong, but you are supposed to apply a very physical style to get the best of of H3.

Agreed. For context, player I am referring to in my above comment is very much accustomed to playing with H3 and is what people would call a "Chinese looper".

 

[zyu81]

But Dan tested 24 Euro rubber neo version.... Not national....Test of National version will follow in short time!! ..

Agreed, and as I predicted earlier in this thread, I expect that to make a big difference.

Also, if they would really accelerate and power through the ball on their loops instead of just spinning them all up rather than forward.

 

[Michael Kitt]

To be fair, when I directly tested unboosted H3 Nat vs T05 top speed it was a 3hr old sheet of H3 vs a super old sheet of T05. It's been noticeable that it took about 8+ hours to reach it's top speed characteristics on the H3. Other rubbers are faster out of the gate.

Though boosting may dramatically decrease the break in period, don't know.

 

[bobpuls]

It is harder for Dan with his stile maybe...still openups, flat hits and flicks, drive are the same technique.... For powerloops I think Tom hawe better hand for h3 ..( So listen a little bit more from his side) . . Still they can provide a good results with this duo approach.... Maybe third person for chopping experience and fourth woman hand to fill the team will help them to have even better reviews for the future..... What do you think?

 

[zyu81]

For powerloops I think Tom hawe better hand for h3 ..( So listen a little bit more from his side) . . Still they can provide a good results with this duo approach....

Even if the two disagreed, I am sure they are aware of how bad it would look to give two completely different opinions on something in the same video, so they need to agree on what to say for the sake of the video.

 

[bobpuls]

Why bad? Different technique can produce different results in some sort.... So no shame there...

 

[brokenball]

I have some very good equipment for monitoring or videoing motion.

How does one measure gears?
Can gears be related to coefficient of restitution?

Also, if one is accelerating through the ball that means the peak speed has not been reached! Any increase in the paddle after impact makes no difference to the trajectory of the ball and actually delays recovery. It seems to me that hitting the ball when the paddle is at peak speed is best and then slow down for recovery immediately after impact.

 

[Aussie4220]

Dignics v H3

For a fairer comparison, a more competitive version of the Hurricanes 3 should have been used, either National orange sponge or a provincial blue sponge. I have used the H3 National orange sponge (boosted every 4 weeks) for many years and have really liked how it feels and plays. In the last week i have switched over to the Dignics 09c on both sides and within the first training session i was sold. Better control, more spin, more speed and better control over less than perfect shots. Response on counter spin is excellent and control on blocking and short game is excellent. For me it was a winner in all areas compared to my previous setup, i feel this combination of rubbers suits my blade better. The H3 seemed tackier than the Dignics 09C but i felt i had better dwell time with the Dignics.

Previously i used the T05 on my backhand and liked it but it was challenging on blocks and fast returns, the ball would spring off a little too quickly sometimes and control could be an issue. when hit well it was excellent. I find the Dignics 09C significantly more controllable on the backhand and when a powerful loop is applied the ball dips very rapidly and is difficult to return. My only concern is what do i do with the T05 and H3 sheets i have left??? i dont think i will go back to them, not after the success i have had with the Dignics 09C.

Overall i have had more match success with the Dignics so far, (still early days) but recently i have beaten players more easily that i have struggled with in the past, whether it is confidence, better shot play etc, it doesnt matter, the results are there. No room on the score sheet how you won. I pay close to the table ora couple of meteres back at the most so for me, the speed off the bat is good and hard to return.You do need to execute your shots better though, no half shots, good technique and commitment and the ball just takes off. I am told the rubber lasts longer so that will be a releif, i was replacing my H3 National every 4 months and the T05 every 6. Price per sheet on the Dignics is greater but if it lasts longer then it will work out to be more economical in the long run. I am stoked with it and recommend it to those who have a strong offensive game.

 

[pilami]

For a fairer comparison, a more competitive version of the Hurricanes 3 should have been used, either National orange sponge or a provincial blue sponge.

It would have been fairer also in terms of price.
Anyway the comparison would be always biased because each H3 user has different results depending on which booster they use and how they apply it.

 

[Aussie4220]

If the provincial and national versions are not as tacky as the commercial ones and also are heavily boosted then they would come out with more spin and power but then again you will be comparing 2 rubbers one which is only factory boosted and the other is boosted which is illegal in ittf's standard or in a more simple te "unnatural". Though both rubbers have factory boosting, if you will compare both rubbers with the h3 with more boosting seems not a fair comparison because why not just boost both rubbers to have a fair result??

The commercial H3 is a waste of money in my opinion, you will get far more speed and spin from the provincial and National versions. Yes you need to boost, but i would think all chinese rubbers need boosting. I boost my National H3 every 4 weeks and as soon as it is boosted i can defintiely feel the difference in spin and control, just doesnt feel as flat. I have recently changed to Dignics 09c and i am very pleased, for me, it is a better choice.

 

[Aussie4220]

The player's skill is not the focus on the topic since you are dealing with comparison of properties between 2 rubbers. Basic experimentation principles would tell you this is not a fair comparison. Do not get me wrong, i heavily boost my h3 and other chinese rubbers with seamoon booster but to compare heavily boosted h3 with unaltered D09c is just not fair.

I think the comparison should be based on how you are going to play the rubber. If the D09c doesnt really need any boosting then dont boost it, play it in its "natural" form. The H3 definitely needs boosting, so boost it and then compare the two. At the end of the day, it is based on the final form of the rubber and how it plays. I boost my H3 National orange sponge and no boost on the D09c. for me, i like the 09c better.